1st, we definately need to upgrade the offensive line. But, the narrative that we do it guarantees Burrow a long career...is false. Look at these stats for Luck:

Andrew Luck:
Played 6 seasons.
Sack %: 5%.
Sacked: 174 times. The high he was ever sacked in a season was 41 and that happened twice.

Andrew Luck sack totals: 41, 32, 27, 15, 41, and 18. <-- Doesn't seem that bad to me.

His pressure rate in 2018 was only 17.6%. Hit 51 times.


Roethlisberger was sacked 554 times in his career. 6.2% sack percentage.

I think the narrative that Luck was put behind a terrible offensive line is false. I think that he just got injured multiple times, which can happen under any circumstance.

(02-23-2022, 02:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: 1st, we definately need to upgrade the offensive line. But, the narrative that we do it guarantees Burrow a long career...is false. Look at these stats for Luck:

Andrew Luck:
Played 6 seasons.
Sack %: 5%.
Sacked: 174 times. The high he was ever sacked in a season was 41 and that happened twice.

Andrew Luck sack totals: 41, 32, 27, 15, 41, and 18. <-- Doesn't seem that bad to me.


His pressure rate in 2018 was only 17.6%. Hit 51 times.

I think the narrative that Luck was put behind a terrible offensive line is false. I think that he just got injured multiple times, which can happen under any circumstance.

There is some truth to Luck not having a good OL, but it's not as bad as the Bengals' was the past few years.

Back in 2014 (Luck's best year), here was his starting OL:
LT - Anthony Castonzo (one of the best OTs at that time)
LG - Jack Mewhort (rookie, was solid)
C - Jonotthan Harrison (rookie, was ok)
RG - Hugh Thorton - (2nd year player, was ok)
RT - Gosder Cherilus - (was ok)

All those guys had a PFF pass blocking grade of 60 or higher that year.

The Colts during those years did not have a very good run game though.
RBs during Luck's tenure:
- Vick Ballard
- Donald Brown
- Trent Richardson
- Ahmad Bradshaw (past his prime)
- Frank Gore (already in his 30's)

Colts also had a defense that statistically was middle-of-the-pack or worse most of Luck's tenure.
So naturally with not having a great run game nor a great defense, it forced Luck to have to pass a lot.
And if you're passing a lot, the more likely you're going to get sacked.

Luck was a product of his own demise. He played reckless.

A lot of people also speculate that his shoulder injury (among others) was because of his obsession with snowboarding and not actually something that happened on the field.

Luck was a unique use case.

After Burrow's injury, everytime that kid steps back in the pocket and gets rocked. i dont expect him to get up. I have to tell myself that significant injuries to QB's are actually not common, sure they get hit and can hurt their shoulders/wrist/fingers etc. But significant injuries arent that common.

I think his next significant injury, if he ever has one will be the way he slides, Man someone teach that kid how to slide.

(02-23-2022, 02:24 PM)Cosmokramer Wrote: After Burrow's injury, everytime that kid steps back in the pocket and gets rocked. i dont expect him to get up.  I have to tell myself that significant injuries to QB's are actually not common,  sure they get hit and can hurt their shoulders/wrist/fingers etc.  But significant injuries arent that common.  

I think his next significant injury, if he ever has one will be the way he slides,  Man someone teach that kid how to slide.

My concern is the wear and tear that builds up over the years if he continues to take hits. 

One of his best assets is extending plays and creating outside the pocket. If he loses mobility then that part of his game will basically disappear. Not great. 

Didn't Luck play recklessly and have issues with sliding? He ran a good bit, averaging 3.9 rushes per game. For comparison, Joey B runs 3.0 times per game, almost 25% less. Doesn't sound like much, but that's 15+ more hits per season. Down field...where LBs and safeties can hit him like any other player. Combine that with issues with sliding and it wasn't a good combo.

Even then, it's not like Luck was always hurt. He only missed significant time in 2 of his 7 seasons. He retired after playing a full 16 game schedule. I just don't think his heart was in it, and it's possible he retired due to CTE concerns or a lack of love for the game.

Anyways...no one is saying a good line "guarantees" an injury free career. It just greatly improves the odds. Less sacks/hits = less opportunity for a hit that takes out Joe's knees.

EDIT: Yikes...I didn't realize my sig was that gigantic on PC. Looks fine on my phone.

(02-23-2022, 02:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Didn't Luck play recklessly and have issues with sliding? He ran a good bit, averaging 3.9 rushes per game. For comparison, Joey B runs 3.0 times per game, almost 25% less. Doesn't sound like much, but that's 15+ more hits per season. Down field...where LBs and safeties can hit him like any other player. Combine that with issues with sliding and it wasn't a good combo.

Even then, it's not like Luck was always hurt. He only missed significant time in 2 of his 7 seasons. He retired after playing a full 16 game schedule. I just don't think his heart was in it, and it's possible he retired due to CTE concerns or a lack of love for the game.

Anyways...no one is saying a good line "guarantees" an injury free career. It just greatly improves the odds. Less sacks/hits = less opportunity for a hit that takes out Joe's knees.

EDIT: Yikes...I didn't realize my sig was that gigantic on PC. Looks fine on my phone.

You beat me to it. I don't have any insider info on it but that was my take from the way he was talking. He just wasn't into it anymore. I don't think JB will have that come up anytime soon.

Now David Carr...was sacked 76 times as a rookie. 68 times another year. His sack rate for his career was 10.5%.

(02-23-2022, 02:30 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: My concern is the wear and tear that builds up over the years if he continues to take hits. 

One of his best assets is extending plays and creating outside the pocket. If he loses mobility then that part of his game will basically disappear. Not great. 

He was soo much better the 2nd half of the year once he could move around more.

(02-23-2022, 02:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Didn't Luck play recklessly and have issues with sliding? He ran a good bit, averaging 3.9 rushes per game. For comparison, Joey B runs 3.0 times per game, almost 25% less. Doesn't sound like much, but that's 15+ more hits per season. Down field...where LBs and safeties can hit him like any other player. Combine that with issues with sliding and it wasn't a good combo.

Even then, it's not like Luck was always hurt. He only missed significant time in 2 of his 7 seasons. He retired after playing a full 16 game schedule. I just don't think his heart was in it, and it's possible he retired due to CTE concerns or a lack of love for the game.

Anyways...no one is saying a good line "guarantees" an injury free career. It just greatly improves the odds. Less sacks/hits = less opportunity for a hit that takes out Joe's knees.

EDIT: Yikes...I didn't realize my sig was that gigantic on PC. Looks fine on my phone.

Playing hurt is still being hurt.

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2019/08/24/indianapolis-colts-andrew-luck-injury-history/

Burrow didn't miss significant time with his injured finger and MCL sprain this year. Doesn't mean it didn't happen and doesn't mean it doesn't add up over time.

(02-23-2022, 02:59 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He was soo much better the 2nd half of the year once he could move around more.

Yeah, take the Higgins TD in the Super Bowl...was basically Burrow stepping outside the pocket and bombing it down the field to him. 

(02-23-2022, 03:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Playing hurt is still being hurt.

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2019/08/24/indianapolis-colts-andrew-luck-injury-history/

Burrow didn't miss significant time with his injured finger and MCL sprain this year. Doesn't mean it didn't happen and doesn't mean it doesn't add up over time.

Fair enough. I just don't think injuries were the sole (or maybe even the primary) reason for Luck's retirement. He could've kept playing.

I agree that injuries can add up, though, and a good line helps to slow down and reduce those chances. Fewer hits = less opportunity for injuries.

I don't want to hear about this bullshit Burrow isn't Luck narrative. This guy has gotten injured and pounded since the day he walked into Cincy. If we dont address it seriously now Burrow's career will be short lived.

The human body can only take so much pounding....common sense

(02-23-2022, 02:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: 1st, we definately need to upgrade the offensive line. But, the narrative that we do it guarantees Burrow a long career...is false. Look at these stats for Luck:

Andrew Luck:
Played 6 seasons.
Sack %: 5%.
Sacked: 174 times. The high he was ever sacked in a season was 41 and that happened twice.

Andrew Luck sack totals: 41, 32, 27, 15, 41, and 18. <-- Doesn't seem that bad to me.

His pressure rate in 2018 was only 17.6%. Hit 51 times.


Roethlisberger was sacked 554 times in his career. 6.2% sack percentage.

I think the narrative that Luck was put behind a terrible offensive line is false. I think that he just got injured multiple times, which can happen under any circumstance.

His problem was thinking he was big enough to take on LBs and the such, instead of avoiding contact.

Luck wasn’t into football much. He always had different aspirations, and he wanted to have a family and do his thing. Luck was so good at football, but I never felt he lived and breathed it like a lot of the QBs.

A couple things.

Not arguing with OP, Luck took some serious hits and sacks. He played reckless and got himself hurt.

Does anyone have the amount of hits and sacks from both years? Because Burrow has been punished behind this line, and he is playing in a division where he takes hits from Garret, Watt, and other really good pass rushers 2 times a year, plus he got to play the titans, Rams, both Bosa brothers, Crosby, Ngokoue, and that guy from Chicago that was traded for multiple 1sts a few years ago. He’s literally played the best edge rushers the NFL has to offer with one of the poorest lines in football. If this team doesn’t get it right and limit the hits Burrow is absorbing or scheme around the defenciency, Burrow will be worse than Luck. He will be David Carr.

(02-23-2022, 03:22 PM)GodFather Wrote: I don't want to hear about this bullshit Burrow isn't Luck narrative. This guy has gotten injured and pounded since the day he walked into Cincy. If we dont address it seriously now Burrow's career will be short lived.

The human body can only take so much pounding....common sense

Doesn't exist on a message board.

Regardless of fanbase.

We are literally on the same pace as last off-season, just getting to the a new coach and 1 guy will fix everything narrative quicker.

Agreed, the false narrative is trying to explain or rationalize Luck's perceived early retirement stemming from the number of times he was sacked. Luck directly stated:

Quote:"For the last four years or so I’ve been in this cycle of injury, pain, rehab; injury, pain, rehab. And it’s been unceasing and unrelenting both in-season and offseason. I felt stuck in it. The only way I see out is to no longer play football. It’s taken my joy of this game away. I’ve been stuck in this process."

This quote reveals that what matters is how Luck felt. How Luck felt is more important when trying to rationalize "Burrow will go the way of Luck" than the number of times Luck was sacked. Since Luck and Burrow are two completely different people, it's not a given that Burrow will go the way of Andrew Luck by retiring, what fans might label as, too early. I don't think it's worth speculating on this though since we have no idea what Burrow might think or feel about it in the seasons ahead.

All that said, it's also easy to understand why people bring up the career of Luck after watching Burrow get sacked so many times. People are reacting emotionally out of concern for Joey B's health and playing career; they worry Burrow might call it quits too early. It's not a bad thing that fans try to make sense of Burrow taking the hits by looking at other QBs who've been down the ugly road of sacks, injury, and taking brutal hits. The Luck/Burrow comparison isn't about sack volume, but rather how the dude feels about the hits and subsequent pain and injuries.

Anyhow, whether or not Burrow is Andrew Luck Part II doesn't negate that our OL needs improvement.

One other thing to point out:
Andrew Luck's Colts had double-digit wins 4 out of the 6 seasons he played.
Not a single season was below .500.
The Colts won at least one playoff game every time Luck started in the playoffs except for his rookie season in 2012, making the AFCCG in 2014.

I think a big detriment to Luck was the fact his career playoff completion percentage was 56.4% and a TD-INT ratio of 12:13.
Aside from 2018 regular season, Luck never had a completion percentage higher than 63.5%.

I think at the end of the day, Luck could have continued playing if he wanted, but he'd already made a lot of money, didn't want to potentially deal with more injuries, and wanted to avoid concussions. He does have an architectural design degree from Stanford, so he probably was smart in making sure he didn't get concussed too much more so that he could have a good career after the NFL.

(02-23-2022, 03:22 PM)GodFather Wrote: I don't want to hear about this bullshit Burrow isn't Luck narrative. This guy has gotten injured and pounded since the day he walked into Cincy. If we dont address it seriously now Burrow's career will be short lived.

The human body can only take so much pounding....common sense

The point is that Luck isn't Luck. He wasn't hit or sacked that much.