(03-06-2022, 05:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Those 2 and Morgan Moses or Trent Brown and the Draft would be opened up.

It would definitely open up the draft and then we could improve the secondary and interior defensive line early.

(03-06-2022, 05:19 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:  you have a better chance of converting if the back hits the line faster and with more speed because the defense is selling out to stop the run.

No you don't.

Stats prove it.

You are wrong.

The RB running from the shotgun gets the benefit of getting the ball earlier so he can pick his spot better.  Also the shotgun formation keeps the LBs from cheating up to LOS.

(03-06-2022, 06:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No you don't.

Stats prove it.

You are wrong.

The RB running from the shotgun gets the benefit of getting the ball earlier so he can pick his spot better.  Also the shotgun formation keeps the LBs from cheating up to LOS.

Exactly

(03-06-2022, 05:19 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Show me the statistics of running the ball with a horrible offensive line in a situation where the defense is selling out to stop the run with 8 in the box because they know we can't throw the ball because Burrow would have no time and they know we run the best from the shotgun.

That's an obvious running situation: 3rd and 1 from midfield late in the game when we only need to get into field goal range so we wouldn't risk throwing it or risk taking a sack which would make a 4th down even harder to get.

They don't convert 100% of the time but you have a better chance of converting if the back hits the line faster and with more speed because the defense is selling out to stop the run.

You're wrong.

(03-06-2022, 06:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No you don't.

Stats prove it.

You are wrong.

The RB running from the shotgun gets the benefit of getting the ball earlier so he can pick his spot better.  Also the shotgun formation keeps the LBs from cheating up to LOS.

Except, with a horrible offensive line, the back doesn't get to pick his spots because the defense gets penetration, especially when they crowd the line and run blitz, like they did.

Argue against that.

(03-06-2022, 06:10 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Exactly

See above.

(03-06-2022, 06:44 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You're wrong.

See above.

(03-06-2022, 07:06 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Except, with a horrible offensive line, the back doesn't get to pick his spots because the defense gets penetration, especially when they crowd the line and run blitz, like they did.

Argue against that.
See above.

See above.

You're wrong.

(03-06-2022, 07:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You're wrong.

Yet you have nothing to counter my points in that post.

Good discussion.

(03-06-2022, 07:08 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Yet you have nothing to counter my points in that post.

Good discussion.

Countered them many times in this thread.

You're wrong and not even close to being right.

Are people just bored to continue to try and convince Brad that the stats don't back up his opinion? While I may be wrong about this, I don't recall him ever moving off his stance, or admitting he was wrong once. I haven't read every thread he's ever posted in, so maybe it's out there somewhere.

While it's entertaining to read sometimes, it's insane that people continue to try this.

(03-06-2022, 09:26 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: Are people just bored to continue to try and convince Brad that the stats don't back up his opinion?.

Yes.

I am seriously bored of the discussions on offensive linemen in free agency and the draft.  Can't wait until we actually start signing/drafting guys.

(03-06-2022, 09:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.

I am seriously bored of the discussions on offensive linemen in free agency and the draft.  Can't wait until we actually start signing/drafting guys.

I'm with you there. I am very much looking forward to FA/draft.

(03-06-2022, 09:39 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: I'm with you there. I am very much looking forward to FA/draft.

Truth to that! 

(03-06-2022, 07:18 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Countered them many times in this thread.

You're wrong and not even close to being right.

So a back has a chance to be pick his spots to run when he's handed the ball from the shotgun and the defense is run blitzing but, even if they weren't, our coaches would to have to know that at least Donald was guaranteed to get pressure into the backfield because our offensive line sucks?

Fred's avoiding that question and I know you will too.

(03-07-2022, 11:31 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: So a back has a chance to be pick his spots to run when he's handed the ball from the shotgun and the defense is run blitzing but, even if they weren't, our coaches would to have to know that at least Donald was guaranteed to get pressure into the backfield because our offensive line sucks?

Fred's avoiding that question and I know you will too.

I am not avoiding any question.  I just don't understand what question you are asking.

The point I keep making over and over again is that facts and reality prove that RBs are more effective running out of the shotgun on short yardage situations.  And one of those reasons is that the RB has more of an option to pick his hole.  Doesn't matter if the defense is playing the run, or blitzing, or crowding the line, or whatever there are still going to be different options available.  Some better than others.

(03-07-2022, 11:31 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: So a back has a chance to be pick his spots to run when he's handed the ball from the shotgun and the defense is run blitzing but, even if they weren't, our coaches would to have to know that at least Donald was guaranteed to get pressure into the backfield because our offensive line sucks?

Fred's avoiding that question and I know you will too.

I'd put the blame...

1. Zac calling a bland play with Perine in the game instead of Mixon. (biggest moment deserves biggest players despite the seasonal tendencies).
2. Perine for running straight ahead and not being able to get it.
3. Oline not being strong enough to get 1 yard. 

I'd not consider running a play under center to be a problem because it's not as successful and the defense would have been packed in tighter.

(03-07-2022, 11:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not avoiding any question.  I just don't understand what question you are asking.

The point I keep making over and over again is that facts and reality prove that RBs are more effective running out of the shotgun on short yardage situations.  And one of those reasons is that the RB has more of an option to pick his hole.  Doesn't matter if the defense is playing the run, or blitzing, or crowding the line, or whatever there are still going to be different options available.  Some better than others.

It definitely matters if our offensive line can't stop the defense from getting penetration and how can he pick his holes if the defense loads the box, which you claimed they didn't and didn't even acknowledge that I posted a picture proving you wrong, and run blitzes?

(03-07-2022, 11:42 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'd put the blame...

1. Zac calling a bland play with Perine in the game instead of Mixon. (biggest moment deserves biggest players despite the seasonal tendencies).
2. Perine for running straight ahead and not being able to get it.
3. Oline not being strong enough to get 1 yard. 

I'd not consider running a play under center to be a problem because it's not as successful and the defense would have been packed in tighter.

How could they be packed in tighter? They had 8 in the box.

If Perine had just run straight ahead from the snap with Burrow under center, he has a lot better chance to get it because he hits the line faster, the defense has less time to react, and he has more momentum.

(03-07-2022, 11:59 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: How could they be packed in tighter? They had 8 in the box.

They could be on the line of scrimmage pre-snap.

Do you not know the difference between "in the box" and "on the line of scrimmage"?

(03-07-2022, 11:59 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: How could they be packed in tighter? They had 8 in the box.

I don't believe they had 8-in-the-box. The box is generally described as the area between the tackles, spanning about five yards deep into the defensive backfield. Here is a visualization of what the Rams had right at snap.



The blue lines represent the "box". The Rams had four players in this area with their ends split out into a wide 9. What if we include those, though?



At best, I see an argument for seven players in the box, one of which is a corner. In reality, the "box" has four defensive players in it. 

(03-07-2022, 11:42 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'd put the blame...

1. Zac calling a bland play with Perine in the game instead of Mixon. (biggest moment deserves biggest players despite the seasonal tendencies).
2. Perine for running straight ahead and not being able to get it.
3. Oline not being strong enough to get 1 yard. 

I'd not consider running a play under center to be a problem because it's not as successful and the defense would have been packed in tighter.

You’ve got 2 plays to make 1 yard. The Bengals have to fix their short yardage inadequacies. Plain and simple. You can what if the play call, Perine, or the shotgun to death.