It seems like over the past few years the Bengals have missed out on certain free agents (some being their own) because the contract was hung up on the guaranteed money. It is rumored that this was the hang up with the Bates contract.

It seems like more and more teams are offering more guaranteed money over more years, which is definitely enticing to players. Players love the guaranteed money.

Is anyone else worried about the Bengals ability to keep their players and to sign free agents if they don't change the way in which the structure contracts? We can have all the salary cap in the world but if Team A is offering a player more guaranteed money than Team B, its pretty obvious which team that player will choose.

I am a bit concerned with this growing trend in current NFL contracts and the Bengals lack of desire to change from the way they currently do things. I hope we don't miss out on impact players because of it.

(03-08-2022, 04:49 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It seems like over the past few years the Bengals have missed out on certain free agents (some being their own) because the contract was hung up on the guaranteed money. It is rumored that this was the hang up with the Bates contract.

It seems like more and more teams are offering more guaranteed money over more years, which is definitely enticing to players. Players love the guaranteed money.

Is anyone else worried about the Bengals ability to keep their players and to sign free agents if they don't change the way in which the structure contracts? We can have all the salary cap in the world but if Team A is offering a player more guaranteed money than Team B, its pretty obvious which team that player will choose.  

I am a bit concerned with this growing trend in current NFL contracts and the Bengals lack of desire to change from the way they currently do things. I hope we don't miss out on impact players because of it.

I think at the end of the day, Mike Brown doesn't want to pay players much who aren't on the team.
As such, he doesn't like a high dead cap toward the last 1-2 years of their contract so that they can be released with minimal financial impact in case they don't work out.

So while I see why players would be frustrated, I can understand where ownership is coming from.

Of all the things the Bengals do well; structuring contracts is among to top

(03-08-2022, 04:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of all the things the Bengals do well; structuring contracts is among to top

Will that prevent us from getting or retaining players, though? Sure they are great from a business side, but what about from a players interest side? 

We have seen an abnormal number of players leave the Bengals because they were unable to get a deal done or re-sign them. Zeitler, Whit, WJ3, Lawson, now Bates hasn't signed. 

You can't deny a lot of talent has walked over the past few years. 

(03-08-2022, 04:49 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It seems like over the past few years the Bengals have missed out on certain free agents (some being their own) because the contract was hung up on the guaranteed money. It is rumored that this was the hang up with the Bates contract.

It seems like more and more teams are offering more guaranteed money over more years, which is definitely enticing to players. Players love the guaranteed money.

Is anyone else worried about the Bengals ability to keep their players and to sign free agents if they don't change the way in which the structure contracts? We can have all the salary cap in the world but if Team A is offering a player more guaranteed money than Team B, its pretty obvious which team that player will choose.

I am a bit concerned with this growing trend in current NFL contracts and the Bengals lack of desire to change from the way they currently do things. I hope we don't miss out on impact players because of it.

I’d like to see a handful of 3 year deals with some higher gtd money than we are use to seeing. If it flames out, it won’t impact our future young talent much. We continue to build through the draft and hopefully they can replace the FAs in 3 years.

(03-08-2022, 05:00 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Will that prevent us from getting or retaining players, though? Sure they are great from a business side, but what about from a players interest side? 

We have seen an abnormal number of players leave the Bengals because they were unable to get a deal done or re-sign them. Zeitler, Whit, WJ3, Lawson, now Bates hasn't signed. 

You can't deny a lot of talent has walked over the past few years. 

And we've brought in a lot of talent. Cordy Glenn, Trae Waynes, Awuzie, Bell, Hendrickson, Ogunjobi....In hindsight not every move has been smart, but as bad as we've been, we've never been a "fire sale' team or in "cap hell". 

(03-08-2022, 04:49 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It seems like over the past few years the Bengals have missed out on certain free agents (some being their own) because the contract was hung up on the guaranteed money. It is rumored that this was the hang up with the Bates contract.

It seems like more and more teams are offering more guaranteed money over more years, which is definitely enticing to players. Players love the guaranteed money.

Is anyone else worried about the Bengals ability to keep their players and to sign free agents if they don't change the way in which the structure contracts? We can have all the salary cap in the world but if Team A is offering a player more guaranteed money than Team B, its pretty obvious which team that player will choose.  

I am a bit concerned with this growing trend in current NFL contracts and the Bengals lack of desire to change from the way they currently do things. I hope we don't miss out on impact players because of it.

No..... see Waynes, Trae

(03-08-2022, 05:09 PM)Sled21 Wrote: No..... see Waynes, Trae

That's the HUGE risk with guaranteed money.

I honestly don't think they need to make a drastic change. Now obviously Burrow should be given a blank check. Chase also.

If they want to sign Superstars then yes but I don't necessarily think that's their agenda. Especially when it comes to external free agents.

(03-08-2022, 05:19 PM)J24 Wrote: If they want to sign Superstars then yes but I don't necessarily think that's their agenda.  Especially when it comes to external free agents.

I've always maintained that I wanted them to sign Tier B and C free agents as opposed to D and E guys.

I think that in general, the Tier A guys get way overpaid.

Now when can you sign a Tier A guy? Well, if you are one of the worst teams in the league and don't have internal guys worth retaining.

(03-08-2022, 05:00 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Will that prevent us from getting or retaining players, though? Sure they are great from a business side, but what about from a players interest side? 

We have seen an abnormal number of players leave the Bengals because they were unable to get a deal done or re-sign them. Zeitler, Whit, WJ3, Lawson, now Bates hasn't signed. 

You can't deny a lot of talent has walked over the past few years. 

Aside from Whit they didn’t have a misstep. Zietler was good but not what he was asking for and is on his 4th team, we got way better by letting WJ3 and Lawson walk. Bates is asking for highest paid safety which he is not worth. So these examples don’t really work aside from Whit.

Guaranteed money is the most important factor. The Bengals try to sell players they will receive more money over the life of the contract because they won’t get cut in the later years of their contract so the team can avoid dead cap space. See Giovani Bernard. They wanted him to take a pay cut when they didn’t need cap space relief. And because of that the team wound up with Perine on the most important 3rd and 1 of the season. And the Bengals were able to rollover $5M instead of $3M.

If the Bengals want to avoid dead space at the end of the contract give less in signing bonuses, but fully guarantee the salary and roster bonuses during the first two seasons, for example.

(03-08-2022, 05:36 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Aside from Whit they didn’t have a misstep. Zietler was good but not what he was asking for and is on his 4th team, we got way better by letting WJ3 and Lawson walk. Bates is asking for highest paid safety which he is not worth. So these examples don’t really work aside from Whit.

Yes. Good points.

I honestly don't think I'd want to be the team to make Bates the highest paid Safety. I don't know. Not my money though.

That's not to say he's a bad player. I like him a lot. But I dont value a safety that highly.

(03-08-2022, 05:01 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: I’d like to see a handful of 3 year deals with some higher gtd money than we are use to seeing. If it flames out, it won’t impact our future young talent much. We continue to build through the draft and hopefully they can replace the FAs in 3 years.

You can’t look at contracts from a fan point of view, you have to look at it at an ownership point of view, and also, even tho he is extremely wealthy, MB is one of the poorest owners in the NFL. It’s a business to him, not a playpen

(03-08-2022, 05:36 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Aside from Whit they didn’t have a misstep. Zietler was good but not what he was asking for and is on his 4th team, we got way better by letting WJ3 and Lawson walk. Bates is asking for highest paid safety which he is not worth. So these examples don’t really work aside from Whit.

We still haven't  found  a replacement  for Zietler though. Saying that we made the right decision in not signing him is a bit of an odd take. 

(03-08-2022, 05:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I've always maintained that I wanted them to sign Tier B and C free agents as opposed to D and E guys.

I think that in general, the Tier A guys get way overpaid.

Now when can you sign a Tier A guy? Well, if you are one of the worst teams in the league and don't have internal guys worth retaining.

The problem with free agency is there are very few A guys out there and if they are they are at the end of the line. B+ Players get A+ money.
We got very lucky last season that Hendrickson was undervalued and also Awuzie. Both guys were cheap and gave us A grade football  this season. Same could  be said for Reader and Bell.

So we need to take into consideration the required escrow.  98% of guaranteed money and 35% of all salaries must be in cash in an escrow.

Burrow may require $150M go to escrow by himself. Add Chase and Higgins, and just those we will definitely re-sign after next season and this number could get well get over $250M dollars.

The salary cap is the same for all teams as is the %'s of dollars (98% of guarantees and 35% of salaries) for all teams, however the amount of actual cash in in the escrow is very different.

Wonder how the Saints can be so far over the cap yet still sign people? Restructures. How do they work? With bonuses and other guaranteed money. As long as a team has a billionaire owner that can dump cash in the escrow they can manipulate the cap.

If a team cannot afford the cash required in escrow it cannot sign new players. We have a broke owner without external income. We all know they have been hoarding cash for 2 years just to make sure we keep JoeyB. This SB run surely brought in a bunch of cash but also greater expectations for better players that come with higher guaranteed money requirements adding more stress to that escrow account.

This is why a Tunsil with a $10M guaranteed contract is so much more appealing than an Armstead who will require possibly 5X that amount in free agency (also the age factor). That's 40M less that would be required in the escrow.

I have zero doubt that the guaranteed money was a major factor in the Bates negotiation.

Simple, they need to do whatever it takes over the next couple of years to make the most of this window. 

Not really


To be a better team we should probably cut guys at the end of their contracts more often but honestly i kinda like being known as a team that honors peoples contracts. It may be the extra tidbit that gets people to sign with Burrow.

(03-08-2022, 07:13 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Simple, they need to do whatever it takes over the next couple of years to make the most of this window. 

And imo the window is every single year Burrow plays a full season behind a solid o line.