(03-12-2022, 02:55 PM)J24 Wrote: If they designate a June cut they don't get the cap space until then. They  are better off waiting until  June to make a deal either way. 

Of course they dont get the space until they designate the move...?

How are they better off making a deal if they prefer a draft pick over the cash? 

(03-12-2022, 02:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I was listening to Sirius yesterday and a caller called to talk about Bengal's oline. Pat Kirwan says he's talked with folks in the Bengals organization and they are "all in" on improving the this line, He said ar least one, maybe 2 of Armstead, Jensen, Schreff are very possible. 

I'm torn on this. I'm happy this constitutes them going all in but don't like its all in kn players who can't stay healthy (minus Jensen)

I'd say between the red flags and injuries I would probably pass. But if we can get him for a late rd pick than maybe he has missed 21 games the last 2 seasons.

(03-12-2022, 03:04 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'd say between the red flags and injuries I would probably pass. But if we can get him for a late rd pick than maybe he has missed 21 games the last 2 seasons.

He had one injury that he chose to have surgery and miss games.

He had the one suspension over missed drug tests.

Im waiting for someone to tell me why we shouldn't give our 1st round pick for Collins (worst case scenario which most likely be the cost).

(03-12-2022, 02:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I was listening to Sirius yesterday and a caller called to talk about Bengal's oline. Pat Kirwan says he's talked with folks in the Bengals organization and they are "all in" on improving the this line, He said ar least one, maybe 2 of Armstead, Jensen, Schreff are very possible. 

And THAT is the beauty of this Collins opportunity!  Collins' deal is so affordable, that we probably could hugely upgrade 2 spots for sure and possibly upgrade maybe even 3 through free agency!!!  I wouldn't be surprised of Collins could be the best RT we've ever had as well, better than Andre Smith.

Heck, go sprinkle some 6th and 7th rounders in to make this happen.

(03-12-2022, 03:37 PM)Yogo Wrote: And THAT is the beauty of this Collins opportunity!  Collins' deal is so affordable, that we probably could hugely upgrade 2 spots for sure and possibly upgrade maybe even 3 through free agency!!!  I wouldn't be surprised of Collins could be the best RT we've ever had as well, better than Andre Smith.

Im obviously the biggest Collins cheerleader, but Willie was a RT........

(03-12-2022, 02:59 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Of course they dont get the space until they designate the move...?

How are they better off making a deal if they prefer a draft pick over the cash? 

They can release him with the June 1st cut which would save them 8 million  dollars or cut him without  it and only save a million.  If they  cut him right now with the June first destination and save 8 million   they would  still have to wait until June first to see the savings.  The savings would not be immediate like it would  be if they straight  up cut him or trade him.

However if they want to save 8 mil and trade him they can't  use June first destination at anytime with a trade like they can do with a cut. They  would have to wait until  June first to do the trade. Either  way the savings wouldn't  apply until  june.

To shorten up they could  trade him after June first and save themselves 8 mil in cap space(after June first) + get compensation, or cut him with June first  destination now and save 8 mil(again after June first), or trade him now get compensation  but only save a million  against the cap(which would be immediate), or cut him now and only save a million against the cap(which would  be immediate).
 

(03-12-2022, 03:37 PM)Yogo Wrote: And THAT is the beauty of this Collins opportunity!  Collins' deal is so affordable, that we probably could hugely upgrade 2 spots for sure and possibly upgrade maybe even 3 through free agency!!!  I wouldn't be surprised of Collins could be the best RT we've ever had as well, better than Andre Smith.

Heck, go sprinkle some 6th and 7th rounders in to make this happen.

Thats disrespectful to Big Willie but it will be nice to know its taken care of until Burrows extension.

(03-12-2022, 03:39 PM)J24 Wrote: They can release him with the June 1st cut which would save them 8 million  dollars or cut him without  it and only save a million.  If they  cut him right now with the June first destination and save 8 million   they would  still have to wait until June first to see the savings.  The savings would not be immediate like it would  be if they straight  up cut him or trade him.

However if they want to save 8 mil and trade him they can't  use June first destination at anytime with a trade like they can do with a cut. They  would have to wait until  June first to do the trade. Either  way the savings wouldn't  apply until  june.

To shorten up they could  trade him after June first and save themselves 8 mil in cap space(after June first) + get compensation, or cut him with June first  destination now and save 8 mil(again after June first), or trade him now get compensation  but only save a million  against the cap(which would be immediate), or cut him now and only save a million against the cap(which would  be immediate).
 

I have seen this said both ways when it comes to a trade involving draft picks.  Is it your opinion a trade involving draft pics can be designated post-June 1st?

(03-12-2022, 01:13 AM)WVUHomer Wrote: I won't speak for everybody on the pro side, but the fact seems like everyone opposed acts as if every option doesn't carry the same or greater risk. 

Armstead with health and cap; Tunsil with draft capital, cap, switching Jonah (biggest assumed risk of him being as good on the opposite side, same with Armstead), health (never played a full 16, this year with thumb injury); Moses being a so-so journeyman.

The greatest thing about the potential trade is not the player but that the risks are almost mitigated to negligible levels due to being able to cut him with the only loss being a pick. Hes also cheap enough that one of the top fitting guards and Centers are still on the table to be purchased in FA as taking 10M for top 5-10 RT

Just found WVU's great post. I doubt anyone can disagree with this. I think Pollack is the type to help La'el's attitude as well,
maybe he can get the best out of an already elite RT. All for the trade, just didn't think Collins attitude fits with what the coaches
are doing here but if Pollack can handle him like I think he can the trade is still possible.

We aren't going to get a better player at RT.

(03-12-2022, 03:42 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I have seen this said both ways when it comes to a trade involving draft picks.  Is it your opinion a trade involving draft pics can be designated post-June 1st?

Thats my understanding of the rule  but maybe  they changed it. I know the Falcons had to wait until June to trade Julio last year. 
The rule  makes zero sense to me.

(03-12-2022, 03:46 PM)J24 Wrote: Thats my understanding of the rule  but maybe  they changed it. I know the Falcons had to wait until June to trade Julio last year. 
The rule  makes zero sense to me.

Agreed. Maybe the rule is set up for the players interest only? Like, hey, you're being cut and can sign with anyone but legally isn't official until this date?

(03-12-2022, 03:08 PM)casear2727 Wrote: He had one injury that he chose to have surgery and miss games.

He had the one suspension over missed drug tests.

Im waiting for someone to tell me why we shouldn't give our 1st round pick for Collins (worst case scenario which most likely be the cost).

Because it was just reported on yahoo that they gave Collins permission to seek a TRADE....so obviously teams are not lining up to give 1st round picks for him........they are looking for cap space relief....thats why i said trade them hopkins and waynes and a day 3 pick. it gives them a pick and the cap space they want because they can cut hopkins and waynes.

(03-12-2022, 03:49 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: Agreed. Maybe the rule is set up for the players interest only? Like, hey, you're being cut and can sign with anyone but legally isn't official until this date?

The Player can sign at any time but the team doesn't  get the cap space until June.  What I don’t understand is why they have to wait  until  June to make a trade. Seems bad for both team and player. 

(03-12-2022, 03:53 PM)pulses Wrote: Because it was just reported on yahoo that they gave Collins permission to seek a TRADE....so obviously teams are not lining up to give 1st round picks for him........they are looking for cap space relief....thats why i said trade them hopkins and waynes and a day 3 pick. it gives them a pick and the cap space they want because they can cut hopkins and waynes.

I am seriously confused with this.

How does giving them 17M in salary in exchange for Collins 10M help them with the cap?  Trade for them just to cut them?

This really makes no sense to me.

The Cowboys do not care about cash this season or the cap, they are dumping a bunch of guys.  They want a ton of cap next season and draft picks this year according to their insiders.

I dont see any value with Waynes or Hopkins being involved?

(03-12-2022, 03:53 PM)pulses Wrote: Because it was just reported on yahoo that they gave Collins permission to seek a TRADE....so obviously teams are not lining up to give 1st round picks for him........they are looking for cap space relief....thats why i said trade them hopkins and waynes and a day 3 pick. it gives them a pick and the cap space they want because they can cut hopkins and waynes.

I like this Pulses. Trade Hop and Waynes for La'el Collins and bring in Ryan Jensen and James Daniels. BOOM.

Also must add that I don't follow cap as well as others and Casear might know better than I do.

I would also trade pick 31 outright for Collins if that is what it takes. Raimann ain't no Collins.

Some people mentioned it, but he has missed 21 of 33 games the past two seasons.

I think he had a torn ligament in his big toe, which I'm not sure how much that impacts linemen or lingers, but toe/foot injuries are usually career killers for offensive linemen.

If the Cowboys release him, I can see maybe signing him, but I'm not sure how much I'd want to give up to get him.

The drug test thing was apparently just for weed, which who cares, but you gotta be smarter than that.

Then again, he is a pretty damn good tackle and we need offensive linemen,

(03-12-2022, 03:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like this Pulses. Trade Hop and Waynes for La'el Collins and bring in Ryan Jensen and James Daniels. BOOM.

Also must add that I don't follow cap as well as others and Casear might know better than I do.

I would also trade pick 31 outright for Collins if that is what it takes. Raimann ain't no Collins.

What am I missing?  

Why would the Cowboys want Waynes and Hopkins?  This isnt the NBA with equal salary requirements...

Im very confused with this take....?

(03-12-2022, 03:37 PM)Yogo Wrote: And THAT is the beauty of this Collins opportunity!  Collins' deal is so affordable, that we probably could hugely upgrade 2 spots for sure and possibly upgrade maybe even 3 through free agency!!!  I wouldn't be surprised of Collins could be the best RT we've ever had as well, better than Andre Smith.

Heck, go sprinkle some 6th and 7th rounders in to make this happen.

Man.  I like the idea of obtaining Collins, but Willie is not just the best Bengals RT of all-time, he's one of THE best RTs of all time.  

(03-12-2022, 03:56 PM)J24 Wrote: The Player can sign at any time but the team doesn't  get the cap space until June.  What I don’t understand is why they have to wait  until  June to make a trade. Seems bad for both team and player. 

Agreed again. The only thing I can think is legality due to contracts.