(03-12-2022, 10:47 AM)samhain Wrote: If they can sufficiently address the line in FA, then Dax Hill might me my favorite pick at 31.  He has the potential to free us up from needing to extend Bates at the crazy number he'll probably want in a long-term deal.  H's also an outstanding value at that slot.  Anyone can bust, but I think there's a bit less likelihood of it with Hill.

I haven't watched Dax Hill at all but he sounds intriguing. I watched a lot of Brisker from Penn State last year and love him 
for us at Safety if we move on from Bates in some way, trade or whatever. Still hoping Bates is handling the tag better than 
some say and we extend him if he wants to stay here. I see no reason he would want to leave except money.

If all he wants is money than I would be fine trading him as I don't understand acting like you are a top Safety when you 
have only played like a top Safety one season and in the Playoffs this year. Other than that Bates hasn't been a good tackler
and that holds you back from being a top Safety.

Based on this chart I could see the Bengals looking at something like this:

Cuts:

1) Trea Waynes 10.6
2) Trey Hopkins- 6
3) Samaje Perine 1.5
-total @18

Re-signs:

1) B.Allen-QB 1.5
2) K. Huber-P 2
3) C.Harris-LS 1.1
4) Tre Flowers- CB 1.5
5) M.Thomas-WR/ST- 1
6) S.Morgan- WR/ST 1
7) BJ Hill-DT 6.8
8) J.Bates-FS 13
9) CJ Uzomeh 6
-total @ 34

Outside FA's:

1-La'el Collins (Cowboys) RT- 10 via trade 4th rd pick.
2) Brian Allen (Rams) C 5
3) Sidney Jones (Seahawks) CB 4.3
4) Germain Ifedi (Bears) G/T 3
-total @ 22

Draft:

1) Zion Johnson-G (BC)
2) Coby Bryant-CB (Cincinnati)
3) Chris Hinton- DT (Michigan)
5) Nick Cross -S (Maryland)
6) Bo Melton -WR (Rutgers)
7) D'Vontae Price- RB (Fla. International)
7) Velus Jones WR/ST (Tennessee)

(03-12-2022, 10:25 PM)schroomytunes Wrote: Based on this chart I could see the Bengals looking at something like this:

Cuts:

1) Trea Waynes 10.6
2) Trey Hopkins- 6
3) Samaje Perine 1.5
-total @18

Re-signs:

1) B.Allen-QB 1.5
2) K. Huber-P 2
3) C.Harris-LS 1.1
4) Tre Flowers- CB 1.5
5) M.Thomas-WR/ST- 1
6) S.Morgan- WR/ST 1
7) BJ Hill-DT 6.8
8) J.Bates-FS 13
9) CJ Uzomeh 6
-total @ 34

Outside FA's:

1-La'el Collins (Cowboys) RT- 10 via trade 4th rd pick.
2) Brian Allen (Rams) C 5
3) Sidney Jones (Seahawks) CB 4.3
4) Germain Ifedi (Bears) G/T 3
-total @ 22

Draft:

1) Zion Johnson-G (BC)
2) Coby Bryant-CB (Cincinnati)
3) Chris Hinton- DT (Michigan)
5) Nick Cross -S (Maryland)
6) Bo Melton -WR (Rutgers)
7) D'Vontae Price- RB (Fla. International)
7) Velus Jones WR/ST (Tennessee)

Thanks for putting in so much effort this is exactly what I hoped this thread would be!  I wouldn't be mad about this  off-season only thing I would like to see is for us to go after a solid G instead of Ifedi (Corbett, Tomlinson, Glowinski would be the dream).  I also wouldn't mind cutting CJ and signing Gronk but I love CJ so im torn there.  Love the Zion Johnson pick I think he is a day 1 solid starter at RG.

(03-12-2022, 10:25 PM)schroomytunes Wrote: Based on this chart I could see the Bengals looking at something like this:

Cuts:

1) Trea Waynes 10.6
2) Trey Hopkins- 6
3) Samaje Perine 1.5
-total @18

Re-signs:

1) B.Allen-QB 1.5
2) K. Huber-P 2
3) C.Harris-LS 1.1
4) Tre Flowers- CB 1.5
5) M.Thomas-WR/ST- 1
6) S.Morgan- WR/ST 1
7) BJ Hill-DT 6.8
8) J.Bates-FS 13
9) CJ Uzomeh 6
-total @ 34

Outside FA's:

1-La'el Collins (Cowboys) RT- 10 via trade 4th rd pick.
2) Brian Allen (Rams) C 5
3) Sidney Jones (Seahawks) CB 4.3
4) Germain Ifedi (Bears) G/T 3
-total @ 22

Draft:

1) Zion Johnson-G (BC)
2) Coby Bryant-CB (Cincinnati)
3) Chris Hinton- DT (Michigan)
5) Nick Cross -S (Maryland)
6) Bo Melton -WR (Rutgers)
7) D'Vontae Price- RB (Fla. International)
7) Velus Jones WR/ST (Tennessee)

Interesting depth piece with Ifedi.  Jones seems to be on an upward arc.  Pass on Allen at Center...dont trust his pass blocking, solid wide zone run blocker tho, just worried about Joe.

Zion obvious great pick, 2nd might be high for Coby versus who else may still be there...? Cross is the real deal & 5th might be too late, Velus is a sleeper due to age but 7th may be too late for him as well.

Very good effort.  This would be a solid offseason.  Only glaring thing for me would be Bozeman/Jensen at Center but that may blow your budget.

>>

(03-11-2022, 12:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I mean, you can take another DT in the 3rd or 4th or 5th. I didn't get that deep into the draft.

Yup, so the defense potentially gets worse. So be it, I am fine with that. That's the price to pay to guarantee Burrow the OL he deserves. You know what's a harder roster spot to fill than DTs and FSs? Legitimate franchise QBs. The Bengals have one, so protect him. You're going to have to take a hit somewhere because you can't fill your entire roster with quality vets. Somewhere some rookies and/or average players are going to have to be starters, and I would much prefer it to be on the defense than the OL.

Right

What would you rather have ? A stud defense and Joe having to be rid of the ball in .89 seconds ? Or a stud Oline where Joe can scan the field and and pick apart opposing D's and mid level D of our own ?

To all but a select few argumentative ones the answer is crystal clear.

(03-13-2022, 10:55 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right

What would you rather have ? A stud defense and Joe having to be rid of the ball in .89 seconds ? Or a stud Oline where Joe can scan the field and and pick apart opposing D's and mid level D of our own ?

To all but a select few argumentative ones the answer is crystal clear.

No O-line is going to keep Burrow from ever getting hit.  With a decent defense he may not have to drop back 50 times a game.

What I find most surprising is the change in fans who used to say that Burrow was good under pressure, but now they say he has to have 5 elite players on the O-line to be effective.

(03-13-2022, 08:00 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Interesting depth piece with Ifedi.  Jones seems to be on an upward arc.  Pass on Allen at Center...dont trust his pass blocking, solid wide zone run blocker tho, just worried about Joe.

Zion obvious great pick, 2nd might be high for Coby versus who else may still be there...? Cross is the real deal & 5th might be too late, Velus is a sleeper due to age but 7th may be too late for him as well.

Very good effort.  This would be a solid offseason.  Only glaring thing for me would be Bozeman/Jensen at Center but that may blow your budget.

>>

Agreed, and at that rate you just keep Hopkins another year and find his replacement in the draft. Center is deep this year.

(03-13-2022, 10:55 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right

What would you rather have ? A stud defense and Joe having to be rid of the ball in .89 seconds ? Or a stud Oline where Joe can scan the field and and pick apart opposing D's and mid level D of our own ?

To all but a select few argumentative ones the answer is crystal clear.

Agree completely

Yet still say both can be fixed in this window of opportunity. 

If O-line is fixed in FA and the defense gets the draft picks its a win win situation for both sides of the ball. 

In this scenario we already have the O-line players who started last year for the depth and really would not need to draft O-line this year. 

The defense could get the first two or three draft picks even with offense only needing a RB and 4th WR which can be drafted in mid to rounds easily. Really don't even need RB but think a two headed monster would be a nice luxury and Mixon is getting a lot of wear on his tread. Could use for TE too if coaches don't agree.

Not aimed at you because I agree with your opinion on this subject. Just do not get why we have to pick one side over the other in this window of opportunity with Burrow and Chase on the cheap. It will evaporate quickly and will not be shocked to see Burrow contract redone before next season even ends. 

Believe both can be done presently, maybe not with 5 pro bowlers like the argument against likes to sling around, but with solid proven NFL players added to Bengals O-line. Does not even have to have any Pro Bowl players just guys who have proven they can get the job done at this level already and not a draft pick gamble. Burrow will hoist them into the Pro Bowl if they can do their job. 

(03-13-2022, 11:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No O-line is going to keep Burrow from ever getting hit.  With a decent defense he may not have to drop back 50 times a game.

What I find most surprising is the change in fans who used to say that Burrow was good under pressure, but now they say he has to have 5 elite players on the O-line to be effective.

Fred, I stated in a previous post that I didn’t think you were dense, I apologize, after reading your posts, I was wrong.

The Bengals have a once in generation talent at qb.  The most important thing you can do is fix this line!  Why tf can’t you see it?

Can he handle the pressure, getting sacked a total of 74 times, and leading his team to the effing Superbowl, answers that question. 

The real problem with the Bengals OL, is they have one player who could start for another team, Williams, and he would only start for 1/2 of the teams in the NFL.  Burrow is getting hit by multiple players.  They are playing Russian roulette with his career.

(03-13-2022, 02:56 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: The Bengals have a once in generation talent at qb.  The most important thing you can do is fix this line!  Why tf can’t you see it?

A generational talent at QB can compensate for weakness on the O-line.  We don't have any players on defense that can compensate for lack of talent around them.

Supposedly one of the benefits of having an elite QB like Burrow is that he can make the players around him better.

(03-13-2022, 02:56 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: Can he handle the pressure, getting sacked a total of 74 times, and leading his team to the effing Superbowl, answers that question. 

Yes he can.  And this proves MY point.  Burrow can be very productive without an All-Pro O-line.

Not saying we don't need to improve the O-line, but all this talk about how we have to have 5 elite top players on the O-line and nothing else matters is ridiculous.

(03-13-2022, 02:56 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: The real problem with the Bengals OL, is they have one player who could start for another team, Williams, and he would only start for 1/2 of the teams in the NFL. 

This just is not true.

(03-13-2022, 03:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Alright Fred name another elite qb who has been sacked 70 plus times.  Ask yourself why?

Where the dense comes in,  protecting your once in a generation qb against another injury, is priority one.

What player on this defense is more important then Burrow?

Proving you’re right when you are wrong is impossible.





A generational talent at QB can compensate for weakness on the O-line.  We don't have any players on defense that can compensate for lack of talent around them.

Supposedly one of the benefits of having an elite QB like Burrow is that he can make the players around him better.




Yes he can.  And this proves MY point.  Burrow can be very productive without an All-Pro O-line.

Not saying we don't need to improve the O-line, but all this talk about how we have to have 5 elite top players on the O-line and nothing else matters is ridiculous.

(03-13-2022, 03:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This just is not true.

Really?  What player?  

(03-13-2022, 02:56 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: Where the dense comes in,  protecting your once in a generation qb against another injury, is priority one.

Then the worst thing you can do is have a weak defense so that Burrow will have to throw 40+ times every game.

Carson Palmer got injured behind a Bengal O-line that set the team record for fewest sacks allowed. No O-line is going to keep the QB from ever getting hit. So a good way to protect him is to have a lead and a decent defense so he does not have to throw every down.

(03-13-2022, 03:34 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: Really?  What player?  

Spain, Reiff, and Hopkins.

(03-13-2022, 04:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then the worst thing you can do is have a weak defense so that Burrow will have to throw 40+ times every game.

Carson Palmer got injured behind a Bengal O-line that set the team record for fewest sacks allowed. No O-line is going to keep the QB from ever getting hit.  So a good way to protect him is to have a lead and a decent defense so he does not have to throw every down.

The Bengals do not have a weak defense.  They have invested in Reader, Hubbard, Hendrickson, Bates, Hilton, Wilson. Pratt, etc. all quality NFL starters.  They do not have NFL caliber starters on the OL.  

A qb can be hurt on any play, but the odds go up when you are hit 74 times vs. Brady who was sacked 22 times.

Like I said, it’s impossible to prove you are right when you are wrong.

(03-13-2022, 11:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No O-line is going to keep Burrow from ever getting hit.  With a decent defense he may not have to drop back 50 times a game.

What I find most surprising is the change in fans who used to say that Burrow was good under pressure, but now they say he has to have 5 elite players on the O-line to be effective.

Show me the post where someone says Joe needs 5 ELITE players on the Oline. Our Oline has been crappy and you know it. We have players with some of if not the worst PFF ratings among Olinemen.

We have to get better, much better. And nobody is saying Joe needs an Oline where he's never sacked again, get real. Just try and imagine what Joe could do without having a lookout block every other play.

Here’s the bottom line, the Bengals have approx 50 million in cap, they need to expunge every bit of that on the OL. Bozeman, Daniels, Collins, are my choices, based on cost, but players are interchangeable. They have to add quality starters to the OL, nobody can argue that, no matter how dense you are.

(03-13-2022, 04:23 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: You really are dense.  Reiff missed the last 7 games and is retiring, Hopkins was pff 39th rated center, there are only 32.  Spain 75tb.  Do your own math.

PFF ratings do not match up with starting in the NFL.

PFF has a lot of guys who did not start ranked higher than guys who did start.

How about a sig bet that Spain gets starer money in free agency?  NFL teams don't use PFF to determine who starts.

(03-13-2022, 04:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: PFF ratings do not match up with starting in the NFL.

PFF has a lot of guys who did not start ranked higher than guys who did start.

How about a sig bet that Spain gets starer money in free agency?  NFL teams don't use PFF to determine who starts.

You mean like all the the teams that stampeded to sign him last off season?  

I guess I’m dense because I don’t know what a sig bet is, but if it involves cash I’m in.