(05-01-2022, 10:11 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: The Ravens are still a good team and variance happens. Yes, Cincinnati demolished them last year but that doesn't speak for this year. Did the Bengals improve enough to overcome the deficits they apparently had against the Jets and Bears? What about the Jaguars? They barely scraped by them. Perhaps a better question would be did the Bengals do enough to overcome the Browns? Cleveland banished Cincinnati to the shadow realm, in Cincinnati, with a mediocre & injured QB. Now, they have added a Pro-Bowl and an All-Pro contender type player at QB.

My point is that it isn't linear like this. I think Cincinnati is the best team in the division, but they could go 2-4 just as easily as they could go 6-0. Baltimore and Cleveland are good teams and just because Cincinnati is better doesn't mean they will win. 

The thing with the Ravens is that they have lost a number of solid veterans this off-season and are relying on a number of rookies to come in and produce at a high level.  That's not really realistic.  They also have a gaping hole at WR.  Because of that, they are not a team that can afford to fall behind and they will also have to rely on Jackson's running to supplement their offense. That leads to an increased risk of injury that they will have a difficult time overcoming.  And honestly, trading away a WR1 that you still have under contract for two years(including 5th year option) is not a move a that a team with designs on contending in a division with the defending AFC champs makes.  The Ravens moves are more like the moves a team trying to rebuild makes.  

The Bengals struggled against teams with strong DL's last year.  That was a pattern we saw over and over again.  Losses to the Bears, Jets, Browns, 49'ers, and ultimately the Rams were proof of it.  That's why they rebuilt the OL in FA with proven veterans.  On paper, teams should not be able to exploit the OL like they did last year, but time will tell.

The Browns added Watson, which is a big upgrade from Baker.  However, how many games does he play this year and how much of a distraction do his off field issues become for the Browns?  They also lost a ton of players and draft picks acquiring him and trying to clear cap space to accommodate his contract demands.  They are also a team that perennially underachieves based on their talent level.  They are a wild card.

(05-01-2022, 02:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So this is "the most disappointed in any draft you can remember", and yet you biggest complaint is that we traded up in the fifth round and then did not select a player that no other team in the league felt was good enough to draft (Donmann)?

I have a nomination for "Drama Queen of the Year".

Well it wasn't the specific player and every team in the league passes on NFL starters every year. The main point is I think we should've been accumulating picks instead of shedding them. Also maybe don't double down on safety or let the one walk so you can invest the money elsewhere.

Don't look now but it may be that the Rats are starting a plan to move on from Lamar and get an actual QB who has actual touch on passes, pocket presence and the other good things QBs should bring to the table.

(05-01-2022, 04:34 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well it wasn't the specific player and every team in the league passes on NFL starters every year. The main point is I think we should've been accumulating picks instead of shedding them. Also maybe don't double down on safety or let the one walk so you can invest the money elsewhere.

I see this draft as:
1. S and sub packages + ST
2. CB and sub packages + ST
3. DT, specifically 3T with occasional use at EDGE if doing well in the 3T role
4. OG that can play OT in an emergency
5. OLB (WILL) and additional safety in sub packages + ST
6. EDGE that can drop in coverage if needed + ST

not we took 3 safeties and hate Jessie Bates

This is a ton of versatility to disguise your defense and a lot of extra speed to cover what will be an insane competition in the AFC.

How many teams will be able to cover Tyreek Hill, Jaylen Waddle and anyone else? or Devante Adams, Hunter Renfrow and Waller? or the chargers? and so on

The Bills looked the part earlier in the year, but couldn’t hold off the high powered chiefs.

We will be in some shootouts for sure, but it will be nice if every game doesn’t look like the bills chiefs… with last team having the ball wins.

I think this draft will truly help us make another playoff run, which will not be easy.


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(05-01-2022, 05:00 PM)Joelist Wrote: Don't look now but it may be that the Rats are starting a plan to move on from Lamar and get an actual QB who has actual touch on passes, pocket presence and the other good things QBs should bring to the table.

I think they found out last year they might already have their next QB… and they just saw what Cleveland gave up for Watson.

There will absolutely be a huge market for Jackson if they want… then they can grab a lot of good receivers with a cheaper QB that has a better completion percentage.


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(05-01-2022, 04:28 PM)Stewy Wrote: Yeah and the coaches who have forgotten more about football than you and those who think like you will ever know, disagree.  

You, layman armchair GM are not convincing at all and repeating the same arguments, backed by no more evidence than your opinion, is laughable.

Dude. I trusted this coaching staff about the oline they haven't lived up to good standard. We added pieces and anyone of them goes down which is inevitably going to happen then we are marching the same players out there that weren't getting the job done. 

This is what I mean. You can't even criticize the draft without people freaking out.

(05-01-2022, 02:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So this is "the most disappointed in any draft you can remember", and yet you biggest complaint is that we traded up in the fifth round and then did not select a player that no other team in the league felt was good enough to draft (Donmann)?

I have a nomination for "Drama Queen of the Year".

I should say to that while "the most disappointed in any draft I can remember" is a dramatic statement. I'm usually pretty stoked after a draft so the bar is pretty high. I still like most of our picks I just wish it worked out a little different. 

(05-01-2022, 05:46 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: This is what I mean. You can't even criticize the draft without people freaking out.

You literally said it was the worst in your memory.  How do you expect people to react to something like that?  That is not just "criticism".  That is like a doomsday prophecy.

Unless you are just 9 years old and too young to remember many drafts.  In that case I apologize. 

The defense got us to the Superbowl. The offense had worst offensive output in the last decade for a team to make the superbowl. So yes adding some pieces that are playmakers in the secondary is a very good thing. I just think we could've added more depth to ensure the defense can hopefully play that good again come the post season. Also more depth/competition for the oline. Who knows we may still add a couple pieces before the season.

(05-01-2022, 05:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You literally said it was the worst in your memory.  How do you expect people to react to something like that?  That is not just "criticism".  That is like a doomsday prophecy.

Unless you are just 9 years old and too young to remember many drafts.  In that case I apologize. 

Hey I'm just like everybody else on here and get too overhyped over every draft pick we make. So I'm disappointed after the draft and maybe I shouldn't have worded like I did. I do think I said I still like a lot of the players we drafted in that same paragraph. It's really just getting rid of the 2 picks drafting the 2nd safety and Gunter in the 7th I don't like. So in the end I wish we could've added 4 different players. That is half of our draft but I didn't mean it as a doomsday prophecy. Now that it's all said and done I hope it all works out for the best.

(05-01-2022, 05:46 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Dude. I trusted this coaching staff about the oline they haven't lived up to good standard. We added pieces and anyone of them goes down which is inevitably going to happen then we are marching the same players out there that weren't getting the job done.

This is what I mean. You can't even criticize the draft without people freaking out.

Not really. Volson could very well push Adeniji off the roster. And he was by far the weakest link on the OL last year. D’Ante Smith could also be our 1st OT off the bench at this point, too. Which pushes Prince down a spot. Not sure what the problem is here.

(05-01-2022, 06:18 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not really. Volson could very well push Adeniji off the roster. And he was by far the weakest link on the OL last year. D’Ante Smith could also be our 1st OT off the bench at this point, too. Which pushes Prince down a spot. Not sure what the problem is here.

The problem is we are counting on players to get a lot better from one season to the next in the case of Carman. We are counting on the unknown factor of D'Ante Smith. With Volson we would be counting on a 4th Rd tackle playing guard that our 2nd Rd tackle couldn't do last year. I think there's a high likelihood a couple of those players are gonna have to play this year. I don't think we're done adding to the line so we'll just have to wait and see.

(05-01-2022, 06:26 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: The problem is we are counting on players to get a lot better from one season to the next in the case of Carman. We are counting on the unknown factor of D'Ante Smith. With Volson we would be counting on a 4th Rd tackle playing guard that our 2nd Rd tackle couldn't do last year. I think there's a high likelihood a couple of those players are gonna have to play this year. I don't think we're done adding to the line so we'll just have to wait and see.

And anyone they would have taken in this draft would have been equally unknown. That’s kinda how it works.

(05-01-2022, 06:01 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: The defense got us to the Superbowl. The offense had worst offensive output in the last decade for a team to make the superbowl. So yes adding some pieces that are playmakers in the secondary is a very good thing. I just think we could've added more depth to ensure the defense can hopefully play that good again come the post season. Also more depth/competition for the oline. Who knows we may still add a couple pieces before the season.

The Rams 27.0 PPG Bengals 26.3
Points per play Rams 0.427 (7) Bengals 0.425 (8)
Total Offense Rams 377 Bengals 355

1. Wished we’d got more depth for the defense? That’s what we did in the secondary. Linebackers all return. We lost one DT and replaced him.
2. Wished we’d got more competition in the OL? Let’s see if Spain or Reiff resign. Prince is a solid backup for this league.

Everybody has depth concerns in some position areas. Baltimore the draft dominator is screwed big time if one of their top 2 average WR go down.

(05-01-2022, 05:46 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Dude. I trusted this coaching staff about the oline they haven't lived up to good standard. We added pieces and anyone of them goes down which is inevitably going to happen then we are marching the same players out there that weren't getting the job done. 

This is what I mean. You can't even criticize the draft without people freaking out.

Im not freaking out.  Im mocking your arguments, which are lamer than a 3 legged dog trying to stand on ice, about why it is a poor draft.

(05-01-2022, 06:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And anyone they would have taken in this draft would have been equally unknown. That’s kinda how it works.

Your right. That's kind of why I would've wanted to save our picks to add more players and or maybe take one with our 5th as well. Ideally we would've gotten one in the 1st but the draft didn't work out that way and that's not the Bengals fault. I've been hoping we revisit free agency after the draft. So who knows maybe once the draft fell like that the team thought they would address it after and all of this is pointless to argue now.

(05-01-2022, 06:56 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The Rams 27.0 PPG Bengals 26.3
Points per play Rams 0.427 (7) Bengals 0.425 (8)
Total Offense Rams 377 Bengals 355

1. Wished we’d got more depth for the defense? That’s what we did in the secondary. Linebackers all return. We lost one DT and replaced him.
2. Wished we’d got more competition in the OL? Let’s see if Spain or Reiff resign. Prince is a solid backup for this league.

Everybody has depth concerns in some position areas. Baltimore the draft dominator is screwed big time if one of their top 2 average WR go down.

I've been saying we will wait and see what they do after. Linebackers were thin in my opinion last year. One of the reasons I was saying we got lucky with injuries. Did Jordan Evans Return? Also I would say the Dline got weaker with the loss of Ogunjobi. I like Carter but I don't think he gives us what Larry O. did at least this year. Again we might bring him back and bring in more players. Just saying with what we have right now I wish we could've added more.

(05-01-2022, 06:56 PM)Stewy Wrote: Im not freaking out.  Im mocking your arguments, which are lamer than a 3 legged dog trying to stand on ice, about why it is a poor draft.

Okay. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.

(05-01-2022, 06:26 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: The problem is we are counting on players to get a lot better from one season to the next in the case of Carman. We are counting on the unknown factor of D'Ante Smith. With Volson we would be counting on a 4th Rd tackle playing guard that our 2nd Rd tackle couldn't do last year. I think there's a high likelihood a couple of those players are gonna have to play this year. I don't think we're done adding to the line so we'll just have to wait and see.

Isn’t that how the draft and develop process works?

I get that our development process under Marvin was mediocre, especially on the OL, but to some extent every team has to take some calculated risk with young players every year. It’s truly incredible that we made it to the super bowl when you think about that. But getting there and playing some of these guys in theory have them some significant experience…

NFL teams don’t have superstars waiting on the bench. Bengals just moved a large percentage of our OL that played through the Super Bowl to the bench. Guys like Hill and Prince and Adeniji may have lower ceilings than we would hope, but they are still young and that experience should help. Carman is more of a question mark, but in theory should be better from experience, more competition and better players around him.


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(05-01-2022, 04:34 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well it wasn't the specific player and every team in the league passes on NFL starters every year. The main point is I think we should've been accumulating picks instead of shedding them. Also maybe don't double down on safety or let the one walk so you can invest the money elsewhere.

I think the reason they focused this draft on defense, and why I suspect we may be looking at primarily defensive drafts for the next few years, is because I believe (and am hopeful) that the coaching staff and front office intend to keep Burrow, Chase and Higgins together for their entire careers, or at least their prime years. We've already seen what has happened to the WR market this off season. We went from 3 wide receivers contracts with an AAV of 20M or more (Hopkins, Allen, Cooper) to a whopping 9 (Hill, Adams, Hopkins, Diggs, Moore, Allen, Godwin, Cooper, Williams) with many more entering the 15M+ range as well, including some arguably overpaid receivers like Golladay, Kirk, Woods, Thomas, Cooks, Robinson and Sutton. 

If those players are worth 20 or 15M+ dollars, I would think that Higgins would be worth AT LEAST 20 to 25M next off season. I would also hazard a guess that, as the salary cap continues to grow, Chase will cost 30M to 35M per year by 2024. And Burrow? I am betting by the time we extend him in 2023, he'll cost us at least 50M per year, if not more.

So, if they intend to keep these 3 players let's say they do some cap magic or maybe get one of them (or perhaps all of them) to take a hometown discount to keep the band together, let's say those 3 players cost us 100M per year in cap space.

Safety is already one of the least valued positions in the NFL, as evidenced by the steep drop off in franchise tag prices from OL to S (Safety is 4th lowest at 12.91M per year, above only RB, TE and K. OL is priced at 16.66M). So, given the emphasis on offense coming in the next few years' extensions, as well as the requirement to eventually re-sign other defensive players like Logan Wilson, Chidobe Awuzie and DJ Reader in the next 2 seasons, would it be better to re-sign Bates for what he wants (presumably, he wants top market money, which would be 16 to 18 million dollars per year, if not 20M by the time next off season rolls around) but lose one of our other young stars? Or should we try to replace the lower value positions in the draft and sign the more "cornerstone" type players to long term deals?

Case in point, if signing Bates meant letting Higgins walk, I say no. I'd rather keep Higgins than Bates. If that's the choice that our front office is being faced with, I'm glad they are taking steps towards allowing Bates to leave in order to keep our offensive core together.