(05-01-2022, 09:34 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote:  We are putting a lot of faith in a guy that hasn't earned it.  

(05-01-2022, 10:02 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: trusting players will develop feels like what has gotten us into this mess in the first place. 

But this is just the way the NFL usually works.  99% of teams give their rookies taken in the 2nd round a year to develop before drafting over them or spending more on free agents to replace them.

You claim Carman has not "earned it" but there are lots of second round picks that do not even play as rookies who are given a chance to develop by their teams.

I’m really not a big fan of this draft but I’m also not bashing it.
1- like it or not, I think we can all agree it has potential
2- Taylor and co have earned the benefit of the doubt with the way they’ve drafted and identified talent to date. I’m going to give the class time to prove our staff right. Hopefully they do
3- I like that they attacked the secondary and defense as a whole. I would have liked to grab a WR or TE in 3. We had a hole at backup 3T but that could be filled by moving an end over on passing down, especially with Ossai healthy to rush on the end to free up Hubbard/sample/etc to slide inside. I would have done that differently but I do like the general theme of the draft

(05-01-2022, 03:01 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: The Browns have a new Elite Quarterback now.That instantly ranks them as a SB contender,with all the other talent they have.Not sure yet how long of a suspension he will be facing yet,so we’ll have to wait and see.
The AFC as a whole,is as strong as I’ve ever seen it.It’s going to be very tough getting to the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP this coming season.

Who told you that?  

Watson is as much a mystery as any QB on any team.  He’s been “out” for a while.  You’ve got a locker room that’s just waiting to undermine anyone who’s under center (BTW, Baker Mayfield didn’t deserve the treatment he received from the Browns.  He may as well been playing with only two functional limbs).

They ran ODB out of town, only to see him flourish after leaving the Browns.

We don’t even know if Watson will play at all this season.  If not, how motivated will MAyfield be to play for them?

This smells like yet another Haslam fiasco that has become his trademark.

(05-02-2022, 12:30 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I thought BJ should give us what Ogunjobi did last year, and Carter will play BJ's role from last year?

Sure yes. But I'd say it's worse because if BJ goes down I don't think Carter is coming in and doing as much as Hill did for Ogunjobi. 

(05-02-2022, 01:00 AM)Stewy Wrote: Case in point.....this FA off seaseason was massively different than any in the last decade.....there was a need and they met it .....period.

So there is a difference

The previous 2 years the Bengals focused on defense. Then last year right before the season they trade for BJ Hill adding some valuable depth that was definitely needed. I just hope we do the same thing for the Oline we did for the Dline. Whether that's signing another vet free agent or making a trade to continue to bolster and or add depth.

(05-02-2022, 10:11 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Sure yes. But I'd say it's worse because if BJ goes down I don't think Carter is coming in and doing as much as Hill did for Ogunjobi. 

That can be said about any position. But the point is, get younger and get them experienced.

Ogun isn't himself right now either, so signing him would have us in the same position??

(04-30-2022, 11:35 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

I don't like this draft and I know I'm not alone. So please tell us how this will win the division when everyone in it got better except the Bengals. This was supposed to be a backfill draft of quality depth players but we got ....Nothing of the sort. Yes, we addressed the safety position but at what cost. No tightend No wideout 1 offensive lineman but who are your backups! The other teams in the division got better but we didn't! Stop talking yourself into it. Quinton Spain will be signed at some point but he costs a SB.
It should damn well hurt!
https://youtu.be/x6TF-8fyxhw

I have not read through the entire thread. Our Super Bowl roster is mostly in tact. Our weakness in 2021 was definitely our OL. We fixed it in FA with Collins, Karrass and Cappa. This gave us to grab BPA at #31 for our team. Hill will play a lot on 2022, he is a great athlete which tremendous speed, a team can never have enough speed. Hill in my opinion replaced Wilson (who if we cut we save a couple of million in cap dollars). Is Hill a major upgrade over Wilson in you eyes?

We cut Waynes and signed a CB from Nebraska. How much did Waynes contribute in 2020 and 2021? Low ceiling for him to be better than Waynes was for us.

It is a huge difference drafting at #31 in each round versus at #5. The Bengals FO did their work in FA, you have to put the sum of all of the off season together. Do we have a better roster in 2022 than in 2021? 

I think the answer is yes we do amd yes every team attempts to catch up to teams who made the Super Bowl. Don't be fulled by analysts who really do not know our roster and contract situations? We have not 1 but 2 safeties with contract issues in 2023. KC was in a similar place in the 2021 draft with Sorenson and Mathieu, and they lost them both and now will have to rebuild their back end in 2022.

A draft is not only about this year, it is also about the future.

I think our draft played out well and we addressed team needs in FA and the draft for 2022 and 2023.

One thing that's irritating the crap out of me, is how much some of you are praising the Ravens draft..
They lost a ton of vets and are hoping to replace that production with rookies????

Yet we have lost very little production, replaced the OL with vets, only really have a couple spots where vets have been replaced by Rookies and your complaining that those Rookies won't give us the production that the previous Vets did????

Do you not see the irony of your complaining??

You can't convolute the off season with the draft. The draft, by itself, wasn't very good.

(05-02-2022, 10:02 AM)Graphicguy Wrote: Who told you that?  

Watson is as much a mystery as any QB on any team.  He’s been “out” for a while.  You’ve got a locker room that’s just waiting to undermine anyone who’s under center (BTW, Baker Mayfield didn’t deserve the treatment he received from the Browns.  He may as well been playing with only two functional limbs).

They ran ODB out of town, only to see him flourish after leaving the Browns.

We don’t even know if Watson will play at all this season.  If not, how motivated will MAyfield be to play for them?

This smells like yet another Haslam fiasco that has become his trademark.

The Browns are a bit of a mystery, but I have to believe in Watson's ability. He has a resume of putting up elite performances and I find it hard to believe that a year of inactivity would severely degrade his play. I'm not calling them a SB contender, but I believe in Watson's ability. I think he will at least see some play time this year.

(05-02-2022, 10:58 AM)Xan Wrote: You can't convolute the off season with the draft. The draft, by itself, wasn't very good.

Why? Who would you have taken differently that would have made it a good one? 

(05-02-2022, 11:07 AM)TheFan Wrote: Why? Who would you have taken differently that would have made it a good one? 

There were some options already mentioned. Granted it's easier working in Hindsight knowing who would be available. For example now that we know we could get CTB, Logan Hall would have been a better option then Hill. We got CTB which was a better option for a S/CB mix given he can play outside and compete against Apple, and Hill is a S/CB who excels in the slot which we have covered for 2 more years.

Especially if we were going with another versatile Safety in round 5.

That would have also allowed for a Wideout or TE (Ruckert) in round 3 where there were some clear options left that could help. But that is Hindsight.

We have to trust the process though. They have earned that. This draft won't sell any tickets, but they don't need it to.

(05-01-2022, 12:29 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: People are killing the Bengals for stockpiling DB’s when it’s literally the one position you can get extra guys on the field all at once, but apparently it’s super smart for the Ravens to have 37 TE’s on their roster…

Yeah what was that?  They have one of the best TEs in the game, and then they drafted lile three more.

(05-01-2022, 08:11 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I get what your saying and maybe that is the situation. I like Bates and would want to keep him but not at a price that will handcuff us going forward. I'm fine drafting his potential replacement and certainly the way the draft fell. But drafting 2 safeties I would probably rather of let him walk and used that money to sign Tretter to a couple year deal. But I guess you don't know how the draft is gonna shake out. Another reason I would've rather drafted a LB at some point is depth this year but also are we gonna be forced to choose between Pratt and Wilson. If so I'd go Wilson and maybe Pratt is cheap but if not you have the replacement. 

 On the note of offense and the receiver market. I don't think we resign Higgins. If his stats improve which I'm assuming they will continue to improve. He will be asking big money. After this last season I think the offense is gonna revolve around Burrow and Chase. Then just continue to add receivers thru the draft.

Well, if the Bengals were feeling really cheeky, they can revoke the franchise tag from Bates since he hasn't signed it yet and they can still go out and get Tretter if they'd like, since he's still a free agent.

Unfortunately, this coaching staff seems happy with the Oline now, which is something I guess.

I think a mid or late round LB would have been a nice addition just in case Pratt leaves next off season, but considering he is nowhere near a star player (or even a great player, necessarily), they could probably sign him for a reasonable deal. Off ball Linebackers don't typically make huge money unless they're stars like Wagner or Leonard. Well...unless the Jaguars get ahold of you, like they did with Foyesade Oluokun haha.

I could see what you're saying about Higgins working out. If they sign Burrow and Chase long term and just cycle WR2 and WR3 on rookie contracts and moderate veteran deals, that would probably work out really well. We'll just have to see how things work out. I would like to keep all 3 long term, but that may not be financially viable or responsible, I don't know haha.

(05-01-2022, 08:11 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote:  But drafting 2 safeties I would probably rather of let him walk and used that money to sign Tretter to a couple year deal. 

You are basically saying you don't trust a second year player to be a starter so you are going to make a rookie a starter instead.  

You are also burying a second round pick on the depth chart without even giving him a chance to develop.

That makes no sense to me.

(05-02-2022, 12:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are basically saying you don't trust a second year player to be a starter so you are going to make a rookie a starter instead.  

You are also burying a second round pick on the depth chart without even giving him a chance to develop.

That makes no sense to me.

The difference is if our safety is bad it doesn't get our QB killed.  I would rather take my chances at safety.

This draft addressed obvious needs for another run at post season, isn’t that what championship deep teams do? Secondary was a big need since Watson was added in the conference and Cleveland had our number last year.
Mahomes is always sitting there too.
Clearly at least one 2021 safety starter is gone in 2023.

This draft will show if the bengals really can draft since they had to find good players after everybody else had picked. If they get two above average starters out of this draft they’ve done great.

(05-02-2022, 12:27 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: The difference is if our safety is bad it doesn't get our QB killed.  I would rather take my chances at safety.

Having a bad O-line does not get your QB killed any more than having a great line saves the QB.  Last year Burrow was not injured behind an o-line that allowed the most sacks in team history.  In 2005 Carson Palmer was injured behind an o-line that allowed the fewest sacks in team history.

Considering that we have solid players at 4 of the 5 starting o-line positions I would go with the second year player over the rookie.  With me it is more about winning a championship than trying to reach the impossible fantasy goal of zero sacks allowed.

(05-02-2022, 01:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Having a bad O-line does not get your QB killed any more than having a great line saves the QB.  Last year Burrow was not injured behind an o-line that allowed the most sacks in team history.  In 2005 Carson Palmer was injured behind an o-line that allowed the fewest sacks in team history.

Considering that we have solid players at 4 of the 5 starting o-line positions I would go with the second year player over the rookie. With me it is more about winning a championship than trying to reach the impossible fantasy goal of zero sacks allowed.

Although, as bad as he was last season - that’s exactly how many sacks Carman gave up (462 snaps).

(05-02-2022, 01:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Having a bad O-line does not get your QB killed any more than having a great line saves the QB.  Last year Burrow was not injured behind an o-line that allowed the most sacks in team history.  In 2005 Carson Palmer was injured behind an o-line that allowed the fewest sacks in team history.

Considering that we have solid players at 4 of the 5 starting o-line positions I would go with the second year player over the rookie.  With me it is more about winning a championship than trying to reach the impossible fantasy goal of zero sacks allowed.

That is an idiotic statement that almost no-one would agree with.  Every hit the QB takes is another chance at a potential injury.  You want him taking as few hits as possible.