I'm on record for rescinding the tag and reinvesting the $13 MIL. WTS, I hold no ill will for the decision Bates is making.

The Bengals are doing him no favors. Apparently he only wants one of two things from them: Sign me or release me.

The Bengals are making the move they feel is best for the team with no regard for Bates, so Bates should be able to make the moves he feels is best for him with no regard for The Bengals.

(05-18-2022, 11:38 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm on record for rescinding the tag and reinvesting the $13 MIL. WTS, I hold no ill will for the decision Bates is making.

The Bengals are doing him no favors. Apparently he only wants one of two things from them: Sign me or release me.

The Bengals are making the move they feel is best for the team with no regard for Bates, so Bates should be able to make the moves he feels is best for him with no regard for The Bengals.

Neither side is required to consider the other. These rules were negotiated and agreed to by BOTH sides. Neither sides can play the "It's not fair!" card.

Bates is free to sit out if he wants to, but there is a good reason that 99% of the tagged players don't miss any games.

(05-18-2022, 01:12 AM)J24 Wrote: He was a top 5 safety in 2020 and he was the defenses best player in the playoffs. 

True, like I said, glimpses of a top 5 Safety. He still wasn't a great tackler in 2020 in his best season by far.

(05-18-2022, 11:38 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm on record for rescinding the tag and reinvesting the $13 MIL. WTS, I hold no ill will for the decision Bates is making.

The Bengals are doing him no favors. Apparently he only wants one of two things from them: Sign me or release me.

The Bengals are making the move they feel is best for the team with no regard for Bates, so Bates should be able to make the moves he feels is best for him with no regard for The Bengals.

I would try to find a trade partner, personally.  Barring that, I would look to get a deal done with 1 or 2 FA's and then pull it.  

I wouldn't have tagged the guy in the first place, though.  

I'd think Bradberry signing a 1 yr/ $10 MIL deal would motivate Bates to sign his tag. Bradberry is a Pro Bowl Corner and only got a 1 year deal. What do Bates and his agent think JB would get at this point in FA?

If Larry O is healthy and this drags into June.... Recind the tag, sign Larry O and roll w Bell, Dax Hill, and the kid from Toledo.

NOT due to me already being sick of hearing about Bates' money /"me" issues 2 years in a row, but because... quite frankly... it makes sense for the Bengals and their roster. A very good DT > a very good to good S. Especially when a first rounder like Hill is waiting to take that spot anyway. They can then sign Bell to an appropriate contract if they need to after this season.

YES, I think Hill is THAT good that no one will care about JBiii (or whatever stupid shirt he made up for himself because he thinks he's TB12) after Hill starts playing.

(05-18-2022, 01:12 AM)J24 Wrote: He was a top 5 safety in 2020 and he was the defenses best player in the playoffs. 

But yet his pff was 56.2 last year....

If you're not going to trot out Bates, you definitely have to trade him. He'll sign the paper if you have a trade ready to go.

(05-18-2022, 12:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True, like I said, glimpses of a top 5 Safety. He still wasn't a great tackler in 2020 in his best season by far.

He was still a top 5 Safety in 2020. Also his missed tackles rate drastically improved in 2021.

(05-18-2022, 02:43 PM)pulses Wrote: But yet his pff was 56.2 last year....

He had 90 rating during the playoffs and was the key to the defenses turnaround in said playoffs.

(05-18-2022, 04:06 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: If you're not going to trot out Bates, you definitely have to trade him. He'll sign the paper if you have a trade ready to go.

What exactly does trading him solve? No one is going to trade for him because that team will be stuck in the same mess the Bengals are currently in.

Sure the team that trades for him could offer him a bigger contract, but it's not guaranteed he'll accept and that just seems sticky. 

No one is trading anything of substance for Bates.  

(05-18-2022, 05:09 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: What exactly does trading him solve? No one is going to trade for him because that team will be stuck in the same mess the Bengals are currently in.

Sure the team that trades for him could offer him a bigger contract, but it's not guaranteed he'll accept and that just seems sticky. 

No one is trading anything of substance for Bates.  

Anything > Nothing

Many teams will overpay, and many don’t have the same cap philosophy or looming contracts that the Bengals have.

(05-17-2022, 09:31 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Why in the world would anyone give Bates a fat contract and then give us their two first round picks? I would give it a flat 0% chance of happening. 

They wouldnt, but thats why we dont just cut him, as suggested in the post in which I replied to.

(05-18-2022, 05:09 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: What exactly does trading him solve? No one is going to trade for him because that team will be stuck in the same mess the Bengals are currently in.

Sure the team that trades for him could offer him a bigger contract, but it's not guaranteed he'll accept and that just seems sticky. 

No one is trading anything of substance for Bates.  

The Texans have a ton of cap space and plenty of draft capital and they need a FS badly. I'd bet we could get a couple of picks out of them....say a 2 and 4 and u can have him.

(05-18-2022, 04:41 PM)J24 Wrote: He was still a top 5 Safety in 2020. Also his missed tackles rate drastically improved in 2021.

He had 90 rating during the playoffs and was the key to the defenses turnaround in said playoffs.

he played poor most the year. until the playoffs...   Was he hurt? or just butthurt if the later send him on his way.

People act like trading him is the simple obvious answer.

But how many "sign and trade" deals do you see every year with tagged players? It very rarely happens. So it is not as simple or obvious as may gans think.

(05-19-2022, 09:20 AM)fredtoast Wrote: People act like trading him is the simple obvious answer.

But how many "sign and trade" deals do you see every year with tagged players?  It very rarely happens.  So it is not as simple or obvious as may gans think.

Suckers born every day in the NFL.. 

(05-18-2022, 02:43 PM)pulses Wrote: But yet his pff was 56.2 last year....

But yet his postseason PFF was 90.0 last year...

Bates admitted during the regular season last year that his contract situation was affecting him.
He was vastly underperforming during (at least) the first half of last regular season.
He then started turning it around, and he was a key factor in the Bengals making it to the Super Bowl.

(05-19-2022, 02:02 AM)pulses Wrote: The Texans have a ton of cap space and plenty of draft capital and they need a FS badly. I'd bet we could get a couple of picks out of them....say a 2 and 4 and u can have him.

They have cap room but they are going to be terrible this year. There is no point for them to bring on Bates for 1 year and/or spend a bunch of money re-signing him. They are basically rebuilding. 

(05-19-2022, 09:36 AM)ochocincos Wrote: But yet his postseason PFF was 90.0 last year...

Bates admitted during the regular season last year that his contract situation was affecting him.
He was vastly underperforming during (at least) the first half of last regular season.
He then started turning it around, and he was a key factor in the Bengals making it to the Super Bowl.

I have no great love or dislike for Bates.  Not debating he turned it on during the SB.  Not debating he had a great 2020.  But a guy that is so emotional about his contract that he cannot separate business from the ball field, IS A PROBLEM.

That his contract would affect his play, AND then admitted it (I'm sure his agent wanted to smack him), is a HUGE red flag.  It's affecting him now.  He has no leverage in holding out during team activities, he cannot afford to NOT to sign his TAG because he wasn't making 1st rnd pick money to sock away the previous years, and he'll get fined thousands of dollars per day once mandatories start.  On top of that he's picking the wrong team to have money issues with in the first place.  The Bengals do not give in, period.  

Finally, if we sign him to a top 5 contract, what happens in 2 years when new money drops his contract out of the top 10?  His history says he's going to get grumpy, it'll get into his head and it will affect his play.  Bates needs to pull his head out of his ass and separate business from the playing field because he's developing a reputation that's going to follow him the rest of his career.

(05-19-2022, 09:45 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: They have cap room but they are going to be terrible this year. There is no point for them to bring on Bates for 1 year and/or spend a bunch of money re-signing him. They are basically rebuilding. 

Exactly.  And this is what the local media here is saying on top of Nick Cassario's actions to shed bad money, build talent and bring in cheap vets, until they finish their rebuild.  They are not going to bring in a 20mil/yr Vet in exchange for draft capitol, when they are going to be horrible and are paying their other vets league minimum on 1-2 year contracts.

@Pulses
Just because the lady across the ballroom has great legs and you think she needs a partner, doesn't mean she wants to dance with you.  The Texans have no interest in dancing with the likes of Bates for at least a couple years.