(05-25-2022, 10:23 AM)kalibengal Wrote: which begs the question: with all the vetting, pre-draft visits, data etc. How the F do you decide to  draft a guy like this in 2nd round? How do you not see the signs that he may not be a dawg in NFL?  I'm hoping you are wrong here...but there were so many other options in last yrs draft in 2nd round.  

He's had plays where he drove opposing players into the ground. His problem was not that he wasn't a dawg, his problem was consistency, which is something I think time and age fixes. If he works out, he works out, if he doesn't, someone else will step in and take the spot. I've never understood the need for some posters to root against the home town kid though. I hope he comes in this season and balls.

(05-25-2022, 11:18 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I've never understood the need for some posters to root against the home town kid though.

Many times it goes back to the draft.  If they don't like the guy when he was drafted then it takes a while before they will accept him.

(05-25-2022, 10:23 AM)kalibengal Wrote: which begs the question: with all the vetting, pre-draft visits, data etc. How the F do you decide to  draft a guy like this in 2nd round? How do you not see the signs that he may not be a dawg in NFL?  I'm hoping you are wrong here...but there were so many other options in last yrs draft in 2nd round.  

(05-25-2022, 11:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Many times it goes back to the draft.  If they don't like the guy when he was drafted then it takes a while before they will accept him.

Which would be weird because Carman wasn't a bad prospect. He just wasn't projected to do well at OT and many thought he needed to move inside (which he has).

For those who are against Carman, why?
Is it because he came into the league injured?
Is it because of his performance as a rookie?

I just have a hard time seeing how someone could be more hyped for a 4th round rookie coming from FCS over Carman for this season.

(05-25-2022, 12:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Which would be weird because Carman wasn't a bad prospect. He just wasn't projected to do well at OT and many thought he needed to move inside (which he has).

For those who are against Carman, why?
Is it because he came into the league injured?
Is it because of his performance as a rookie?

I just have a hard time seeing how someone could be more hyped for a 4th round rookie coming from FCS over Carman for this season.

That's kinda what I don't understand either ? 

I have my doubts about Carman working out ? Many have been already stated in this thread. But I hope he does.

I'd say my biggest fear is he stinks and they just keep pushing him out there like Ogbuehi several years ago. I hope this staff isn't like that.

(05-25-2022, 12:12 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That's kinda what I don't understand either ? 

I have my doubts about Carman working out ? Many have been already stated in this thread. But I hope he does.

I'd say my biggest fear is he stinks and they just keep pushing him out there like Ogbuehi several years ago. I hope this staff isn't like that.

I don't think this staff is like that.
If they were, we would have only seen Adeniji in when Carman wasn't able to play due to injury.
I think this staff just doesn't want to immediately throw him away after a bad rookie season (which they shouldn't).
They haven't said he's the guaranteed starter either. He'll be in a competition with others.
I would assume that's to help motivate him to earn the spot vs feeling entitled to it.

All I want is for the LG spot to be solidified with a solid-or-better starter. I don't care who it is.
With that said, I hope Carman does well because I would hate to see another early draft pick not live up to draft status like we've seen with quite a few 2nd rounders in years past (Sample, Fisher, Hill, Hunt, Still).

(05-25-2022, 11:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Many times it goes back to the draft.  If they don't like the guy when he was drafted then it takes a while before they will accept him.

Truth.  Case in point, Ja'Marr Chase had to practically perform the Twelve Labors of Hercules last year to be accepted.  It probably wasn't until the first KC game that he finally had everybody unwaveringly behind him.  

(05-25-2022, 12:47 PM)Whatever Wrote: Truth.  Case in point, Ja'Marr Chase had to practically perform the Twelve Labors of Hercules last year to be accepted.  It probably wasn't until the first KC game that he finally had everybody unwaveringly behind him.  

chase brought great value... Was still hard watching Burrow take record # of sacks.  But 1 rookie OL prospect wouldnt have stopped that either

(05-25-2022, 12:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't think this staff is like that.
If they were, we would have only seen Adeniji in when Carman wasn't able to play due to injury.
I think this staff just doesn't want to immediately throw him away after a bad rookie season (which they shouldn't).
They haven't said he's the guaranteed starter either. He'll be in a competition with others.
I would assume that's to help motivate him to earn the spot vs feeling entitled to it.

All I want is for the LG spot to be solidified with a solid-or-better starter. I don't care who it is.
With that said, I hope Carman does well because I would hate to see another early draft pick not live up to draft status like we've seen with quite a few 2nd rounders in years past (Sample, Fisher, Hill, Hunt, Still).

 1,000 %

It's been brought up many times in many threads and it's true. The window for Super Bowl runs can be heartbreakingly short. And just luck or whatever to get there. Ask Dan Marino

Anyways, now is not the time to be running a LG training camp ! I sure hope Joe is here 20 years and many playoff and Super Bowl runs are in our future. But you just never know what turn off events lies ahead even besides injuries.

With all the UFO talk going on what if Joe is taken away by aliens ? 

(05-25-2022, 12:47 PM)Whatever Wrote: Truth.  Case in point, Ja'Marr Chase had to practically perform the Twelve Labors of Hercules last year to be accepted.  It probably wasn't until the first KC game that he finally had everybody unwaveringly behind him.  

The dropping every pass thrown to him in camp and the preseason games put a big ding in Chase's introduction. 

But he recovered well 

I thought Jackson gave a pretty good interview, despite the fact that even going back to Clemson, he's never seemed super comfortable doing interviews. I like that he's worked with Duke M and that he's making changes to his diet, as well as talking about wanting to become more professional in his approach.

Carman has the talent and athleticism to be a very good NFL lineman. It's just a matter of nailing the fundamentals and technique required at LG. I think moving back to left side will benefit him greatly, and he said himself, he's much more comfortable there. 

I feel like a lot of fans are rushing to write this kid off, and I'm not sure why. 

(05-25-2022, 11:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You don't remember correctly. Alexander liked Carman but he had no influence on the pick at all. Carman was scouted and evaluated by current Bengal staff.

Our drafts are controlled by Taylor and Tobin.

No Fred, I do remember correctly. Alexander had input and talked specifically to Mike Brown and recommended and endorsed the pick. 

"Yeah, I talked to Mike about it. I go straight to the top. Mike wanted to talk about Jackson, and obviously I gave him (Carman) a strong endorsement and I think he's going to be terrific" - Paul Alexander

Watch the video below: 

Paul Alexander on the Bengals' Pursuit of Jackson Carman - Bing video

I guess you must have missed that tid bit when you put every piece of Bengals information (mainly assumptions) in that all knowing head of yours. 

(05-25-2022, 10:23 AM)kalibengal Wrote: which begs the question: with all the vetting, pre-draft visits, data etc. How the F do you decide to  draft a guy like this in 2nd round? How do you not see the signs that he may not be a dawg in NFL?  I'm hoping you are wrong here...but there were so many other options in last yrs draft in 2nd round.  

I don't get your question about Carman not being a Dawg in the NFL...

The only question I have with him is the back injury and if it lingers.

He is a run blocking mauler that loves to pancake dudes. He is a Dawg if he is healthy.

(05-25-2022, 01:52 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: No Fred, I do remember correctly. Alexander had input and talked specifically to Mike Brown and recommended and endorsed the pick. 

"Yeah, I talked to Mike about it. I go straight to the top. Mike wanted to talk about Jackson, and obviously I gave him (Carman) a strong endorsement and I think he's going to be terrific" - Paul Alexander

Watch the video below: 

Paul Alexander on the Bengals' Pursuit of Jackson Carman - Bing video

I guess you must have missed that tid bit when you put every piece of Bengals information (mainly assumptions) in that all knowing head of yours. 

I agree that Fred was wrong when he said Alexander had 'no influence' because I think Mike values his opinion, but it's not like they took Carman just because Alexander gave him the seal of approval. They also got input / endorsements from people like Big Willie, Duke M and coaches at Clemson. 

Also, as Alexander said, he gave Mike a list of 25 guys...and it was Mike who singled out Carman. 

(05-25-2022, 02:05 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I agree that Fred was wrong when he said Alexander had 'no influence' because I think Mike values his opinion, but it's not like they took Carman just because Alexander gave him the seal of approval. They also got input / endorsements from people like Big Willie, Duke M and coaches at Clemson. 

Also, as Alexander said, he gave Mike a list of 25 guys...and it was Mike who singled out Carman. 

I think Paul Alexander's endorsement was a big reason why they took Carman. I think Mike and Alexander are boys, and I think Mike still values his opinion above all. 

(05-25-2022, 01:44 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I thought Jackson gave a pretty good interview, despite the fact that even going back to Clemson, he's never seemed super comfortable doing interviews. I like that he's worked with Duke M and that he's making changes to his diet, as well as talking about wanting to become more professional in his approach.

Carman has the talent and athleticism to be a very good NFL lineman. It's just a matter of nailing the fundamentals and technique required at LG. I think moving back to left side will benefit him greatly, and he said himself, he's much more comfortable there. 

I feel like a lot of fans are rushing to write this kid off, and I'm not sure why. 

I believe this was the case with Quinton Spain too.
When he came in midway through 2020, he played primarily RG for the Bengals and was not great.
He played much better when moved back to LG, which was what he was more used to playing.

(05-25-2022, 01:52 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: No Fred, I do remember correctly. Alexander had input and talked specifically to Mike Brown and recommended and endorsed the pick. 

"Yeah, I talked to Mike about it. I go straight to the top. Mike wanted to talk about Jackson, and obviously I gave him (Carman) a strong endorsement and I think he's going to be terrific" - Paul Alexander

Watch the video below: 

Paul Alexander on the Bengals' Pursuit of Jackson Carman - Bing video

I guess you must have missed that tid bit when you put every piece of Bengals information (mainly assumptions) in that all knowing head of yours. 

While Alexander can give his opinion to Mike Brown, he's not employed by the Bengals. So if Mike Brown (and Bengals staff) values Alexander's opinion still and chose to make a decision on that, that's on them.

are we trying to Say Carman is not who Pollack wanted? whats it matter what Alexander did. What did Pollack want?

(05-25-2022, 12:12 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That's kinda what I don't understand either ? 

I have my doubts about Carman working out ? Many have been already stated in this thread. But I hope he does.

I'd say my biggest fear is he stinks and they just keep pushing him out there like Ogbuehi several years ago. I hope this staff isn't like that.

Because almost everyone has zero clue how difficult the transition is to all pro sports and to the NFL. Not just from a skill set but mentally, maturity,emotionally, etc. Also, guys got serious $$$ in their hands also for the first time so what's important so when you need to eat right as a 21 year old and you have a few hours away are you going to eat what you did as the 19-20 year old or eat healthy.. If you're workouts aren't going well and now you have a few hours off are you going back to the gym, the trainer, watch film, etc. or do you go mall-cruising.

Everything is scripted for you in college 24/7/365. In NFL, you're suppose to be a man now and they have you from late July thru Dec. and if lucky enough another month. In Carman's case he was injured, damn near missed everything with Covid, wasn't in great shape due to many reasons and, more importantly, was playing a totally new position that required great strength, balance, leverage, etc.

(05-25-2022, 02:57 PM)higgy100 Wrote: If you're workouts aren't going well and now you have a few hours off are you going back to the gym, the trainer, watch film, etc. or do you go mall-cruising.

Do you think he's going to Chess King or The Gap, to pick up some new threads??