As powerful and explosive as our offense should be this year with JoeyB, the big 3 WR's, a new TE and a new line, the star of this season may very well turn out to be Sweet Lou's defensive unit. Outside of maybe Shelvin, who they say has shed weight (though I can't see it) I do not see a single player on defense who is not out there hungry and getting after it on every play, and we have been watching 2nd and 3rd stringers making these plays. Final cut day is going to be some tough decisions. Some of these new defensive linemen and DB's are ballers.

I am pleased by the defense so far, but defense is usually ahead of offense in preseason.

We have done a lot to fix the offense, but on defense we lost Ogunjobi. So I have more concerns about our defense than our offense.

But we don't have to have an "elite" defense to win a championship if our offense is as good as it should be. If we could just improve from 17th to 10th or something like that. But it will be tough to improve without Ogunjobi and facing a tougher schedule.

I love the way Dax looks so far, but safety is not a big concern with Bates and Bell back. Hill is so versatile he will find playing time, but I don't see him having a huge impact this year.

(08-28-2022, 03:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am pleased by the defense so far, but defense is usually ahead of offense in preseason.

We have done a lot to fix the offense, but on defense we lost Ogunjobi.  So I have more concerns about our defense than our offense.

But we don't have to have an "elite" defense to win a championship if our offense is as good as it should be.  If we could just improve from 17th to 10th or something like that.  But it will be tough to improve without Ogunjobi and facing a tougher schedule.

I love the way Dax looks so far, but safety is not a big concern with Bates and Bell back.  Hill is so versatile he will find playing time, but I don't see him having a huge impact this year.

I think we will miss Ogunjobi. I'm a little concerned about the Dline just because we now have BJ taking over for Larry and Carter rotating in. So if BJ goes down not sure Carter could do what BJ did for us with Larry. I'd feel a lot better if Carter was the 5th DT/ extra DE. 

I'm excited about Dax as well. I think he may get more playing time than we realize. Lou seems to run a pretty unique defense and I could see him doing things like having Bates and Hill at safety and moving Bell into a linebackerish role at times. Or Bell at safety and either Dax or Bates in a robber role. I'll be excited to see it and I think we are all a little in the dark with Bates being out so long and no starters playing in the preseason. I think Dax showed enough in the preseason that we have to get him on the field and might be exactly what this defense needed if he can continue to be around the ball in the air.

Outside of depth at pass rusher there is very little concern about this defense. If they play like they did in the playoffs then this team will be the #1 seed in the AFC!

(08-28-2022, 03:06 PM)Sled21 Wrote: As powerful and explosive as our offense should be this year with JoeyB, the big 3 WR's, a new TE and a new line, the star of this season may very well turn out to be Sweet Lou's defensive unit. Outside of maybe Shelvin, who they say has shed weight (though I can't see it) I do not see a single player on defense who is not out there hungry and getting after it on every play, and we have been watching 2nd and 3rd stringers making these plays. Final cut day is going to be some tough decisions. Some of these new defensive linemen and DB's are ballers.

No doubt Sled the D has looked really good under Lou. Zach Carter and Jeff Gunter seem like studs already. Really liked what 
I saw from that other big NT in Dominic Davis too on the DL this last game. Noah Spence also has been playing good.

Overall the depth on the DL looks much better than last season.

Our depth looks good besides Hood in the  Secondary, really like Allan George and Jalen Davis and Tycen Anderson shown some 
good things yesterday. Trayvon Henderson has always been good every dang preseason. Dax Hill is Dax Hill.

Not even mentioning the guy I have as our breakout Defensive player in ADG at LB and as a blitzer at times.

Going to be fun watching both sides of the ball this season for sure.

I think the “star” not named Joe that emerges this year will be Logan Wilson. He was above average to good last year. Showed flashes of greatness. Played through a painful injury. With the bum shoulder hopefully behind him, I expect he takes the next step and will be a league-wide known name by season’s end.

I can see the defense improving this season. It was kind of a tale of two halves last year. They got better towards the end and playoffs obviously. But like I've said before, they don't have to be great. Just middle of the road or a bit above.

I'm optimistic about the defense, mainly because of continuity. Last year, the Bengals defense was a middle of the road group. Even in the playoffs, really. Their per play metrics were mostly the same, but they had a massive uptick in turnovers. I don't think that is sustainable, but I do think they can make an improvement there over last year and hopefully improve their per play metrics.

(08-28-2022, 03:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am pleased by the defense so far, but defense is usually ahead of offense in preseason.

We have done a lot to fix the offense, but on defense we lost Ogunjobi. So I have more concerns about our defense than our offense.

But we don't have to have an "elite" defense to win a championship if our offense is as good as it should be. If we could just improve from 17th to 10th or something like that. But it will be tough to improve without Ogunjobi and facing a tougher schedule.

I love the way Dax looks so far, but safety is not a big concern with Bates and Bell back. Hill is so versatile he will find playing time, but I don't see him having a huge impact this year.

I think I’m glad the front office doesn’t agree with your takes.
PFF Ogunjobi
Overall 50.3
Pass Rush 62.3
Run Defense 38.9
33 Solo 12 assist 8 sacks 723 snaps
B J Hill
Pass Rush 65.1
Run Defense 68.6
Overall 70.4
32 solo 12 assists 6 sacks
499 snaps

I have to admit,I’m almost as excited about this defense as I am the Offense.Losing Ogunjobi isn’t a big concern.I feel BJ Hill can feel that void nicely,and could even be a slight upgrade over Ogunjobi IMO.

I really like what I’m seeing with this #1 defense.Hope they pick up where they left off in postseason play.

(08-28-2022, 09:50 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I think I’m glad the front office doesn’t agree with your takes.
PFF Ogunjobi
Overall 50.3
Pass Rush 62.3
Run Defense 38.9
33 Solo 12 assist 8 sacks 723 snaps
B J Hill
Pass Rush 65.1
Run Defense 68.6
Overall 70.4
32 solo 12 assists 6 sacks
499 snaps

BJ played great last year as a rotational player. He has to really step up now. It's not as easy as just extrapolating what he did last year. Back in the day Wallace Gilberry was great as a situational pass rusher. They let Michael Johnson go in FA, and Gilberry really fell off. Maybe this is different, but Ogunjobi was very disruptive, and made splash plays last year (PFF grades be damned).... Who's gonna fill those shoes?

Outside of a coupla weeks run last year, the defense under Lou as been middle of the pack at best.

(08-28-2022, 10:52 PM)jason Wrote: BJ played great last year as a rotational player. He has to really step up now. It's not as easy as just extrapolating what he did last year. Back in the day Wallace Gilberry was great as a situational pass rusher. They let Michael Johnson go in FA, and Gilberry really fell off. Maybe this is different, but Ogunjobi was very disruptive, and made splash plays last year (PFF grades be damned).... Who's gonna fill those shoes?

Outside of a coupla weeks run last year, the defense under Lou as been middle of the pack at best.

B J Hill became the starter in the Titans game and did very well the last 3 games as the starter.

(08-28-2022, 11:05 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: B J Hill became the starter in the Titans game and did very well the last 3 games as the starter.

We're on the same side of wanting him to succeed... But last year, and the playoffs are gone. None of that matters. We don't get a pole position because we had a nice run late in the season.

The hope is the rookies and some sub packages can pick up the slack of losing Larry.

(08-29-2022, 12:05 AM)jason Wrote: We're on the same side of wanting him to succeed... But last year, and the playoffs are gone. None of that matters. We don't get a pole position because we had a nice run late in the season.

The hope is the rookies and some sub packages can pick up the slack of losing Larry.

I showed you his PFF grade versus Ogunjobi and his production was almost as much as Ogunjobi with half the snaps. We saw how well Hill played as a starter. I think there’s a lot more to be concerned about than Hill.

(08-28-2022, 09:23 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm optimistic about the defense, mainly because of continuity. Last year, the Bengals defense was a middle of the road group. Even in the playoffs, really. Their per play metrics were mostly the same, but they had a massive uptick in turnovers. I don't think that is sustainable, but I do think they can make an improvement there over last year and hopefully improve their per play metrics.

That surprises me about the play metrics because it seemed like the defense played much better than they did in the regular season.

(08-29-2022, 02:24 AM)J24 Wrote: That surprises me about the play metrics because it seemed like the defense played much better than they did in the regular season.

Like goose said I think the turnover wave made them look a little better than they were. But I still feel the D was better the last 8 games or whatever than they were the first dozen no matter what the stats say. More fire, more determination, more stepping up, playing as a team and so on.

(08-28-2022, 10:52 PM)jason Wrote: BJ played great last year as a rotational player. He has to really step up now. It's not as easy as just extrapolating what he did last year. Back in the day Wallace Gilberry was great as a situational pass rusher. They let Michael Johnson go in FA, and Gilberry really fell off. Maybe this is different, but Ogunjobi was very disruptive, and made splash plays last year (PFF grades be damned).... Who's gonna fill those shoes?

Outside of a coupla weeks run last year, the defense under Lou as been middle of the pack at best.

Last year it was LarryO and BJ. This year it will be BJ and Carter. The question is not whether BJ can fill LarryO's shoes, he can. The question is whether Carter, Gunter or the others can fill BJ's shoes as the relief man.

(08-29-2022, 12:05 AM)jason Wrote: We're on the same side of wanting him to succeed... But last year, and the playoffs are gone. None of that matters. We don't get a pole position because we had a nice run late in the season.

The hope is the rookies and some sub packages can pick up the slack of losing Larry.

You are right none of that matters. I hope Ja Mar Chase doesn’t go into a huge sophomore slump. Ha ha

(08-29-2022, 10:23 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Last year it was LarryO and BJ. This year it will be BJ and Carter. The question is not whether BJ can fill LarryO's shoes, he can. The question is whether Carter, Gunter or the others can fill BJ's shoes as the relief man.

True that’s the crux