(09-11-2022, 09:53 PM)Wyche Wrote: In all seriousness, all of what happened today is correctable. There were positives. Defense played well enough, Hurst looks like a real nice addition. Karras, and Cappa played ok. Collins started rough but got it going. Volson kinda got Jonah saddled with a couple sacks because he was getting steamrolled. So the line isn't as bad as it looks in paper, it's just that the weakest link is REALLY weak. Joe will bounce back. Look at the stats, we beat their ass everywhere but where it counts the most..... scoreboard.

Agreed!

(09-11-2022, 10:14 PM)Wyche Wrote: It's all correctable, but Volson getting steamrolled.

Volson lacks experience at this level but he will learn. Add that this is the OL’s first game together, I would hope things get much better. I question Pollack though because his impact has been lackluster. We went and signed FA’s to fix this line and it looks no different than last year.

(09-11-2022, 10:34 PM)hoosierbengal Wrote: I think it’s funny how people argue about whose fault it is that we lost. You are all probably at least partly right  

Folks have agendas and will look to whatever supports their agendas; it soothes their cognitive dissonance. 

IF you think Zac is not a good coach, you'll point to whatever you can fabricate to support your POV

IF you don't like Pollack it's Oline

IF you think we should have kept Pryor; it's because of our #4 WR

I personally think JB is the main reason we lost followed closely by injuries to Higgins and Harris. I just cannot grasp the concept it's because we snapped a ball too early on a punt. 

I do think Zac went for it on 4th down when we were within FG range was a poor choice, but I don't know if that was before or after Harris. injury.

The good news 

(09-11-2022, 10:17 PM)BengalsLUFC Wrote: Agree with all of this.

Think the reason why it feels so bad today is that it was the first game of the season, it was against them with a chance to go 4 in a row, it was just a massive anti climax after the build up and what happened last season.

But it’s early days a win next week will put this to bed and we get our revenge later in the year.

It’s only one game we will be fine.

Yep, honestly I'd be fine with it, but it's the Stoolers, so I'm a little miffed, lol.

(09-11-2022, 10:34 PM)hoosierbengal Wrote: I think it’s funny how people argue about whose fault it is that we lost. You are all probably at least partly right  

It's not an argument. The correct answer is five turnovers.....and a critical strip sack we didn't lose that put us out of FG range toward the end of OT somewhat. This fifteen seconds bullshit is a moot point because we shouldn't even have been in OT. 

(09-11-2022, 10:45 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Volson lacks experience at this level but he will learn. Add that this is the OL’s first game together, I would hope things get much better. I question Pollack though because his impact has been lackluster. We went and signed FA’s to fix this line and it looks no different than last year.

The learning part never worries me with young players. His getting shoved all over the field and causing sacks for other linemen because the QB has to leave the pocket so often because he's getting steamrolled is what worries me. That, and he's slow. He blew a trap play by whiffing on the pull block.

(09-11-2022, 10:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks have agendas and will look to whatever supports their agendas; it soothes their cognitive dissonance. 

IF you think Zac is not a good coach, you'll point to whatever you can fabricate to support your POV

IF you don't like Pollack it's Oline

IF you think we should have kept Pryor; it's because of our #4 WR

I personally think JB is the main reason we lost followed closely by injuries to Higgins and Harris. I just cannot grasp the concept it's because we snapped a ball too early on a punt. 

I do think Zac went for it on 4th down when we were within FG range was a poor choice, but I don't know if that was before or after Harris. injury.

The good news 

Bingo. People just simply cannot admit when they're wrong.

He for sure made the wrong decision…it’s clear to anyone with a brain that if he was worried about the Steelers timing the snap that he should have taken the delay of game and he would have accomplished killing clock and being able to snap the ball anytime on the next play clock.

The real question is, why wasn’t there a single person in his ear or next to him bringing that to his attention? I mean this is the NFL and that kind of mistake is inexcusable and we don’t have a single person capable of making that decision.

(09-11-2022, 10:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks have agendas and will look to whatever supports their agendas; it soothes their cognitive dissonance. 

IF you think Zac is not a good coach, you'll point to whatever you can fabricate to support your POV

IF you don't like Pollack it's Oline

IF you think we should have kept Pryor; it's because of our #4 WR

I personally think JB is the main reason we lost followed closely by injuries to Higgins and Harris. I just cannot grasp the concept it's because we snapped a ball too early on a punt. 

I do think Zac went for it on 4th down when we were within FG range was a poor choice, but I don't know if that was before or after Harris. injury.

The good news 

    Regarding the punt with clock running and 15 secs on the play clock………regardless off what happened prior to that (Ints,sacks,fumbles…etc) the fact is whether you are tied or up a point in that situation you want to give the Steelers as little time as possible to get the W. At that point you are hoping to get the T and not the L outside of them gifting you a turnover and giving you a shot at the W. The extra time given to the Steelers may have not been the main reason we lost the game as a whole but I do think it is what allowed them to score in that last minute and that did change it from a T to a L. This is why I say everyone is partly right.

(09-11-2022, 10:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said earlier: We have no idea what Pitt would have done with 15 fewer seconds on the clock. Perhaps they take chances deeper, earlier.

Apparently, Zac didn't want to put added pressure on Wilcox and let him snap when comfortable. He had enough issues that he didn't need the added pressure of waiting until the last second to snap. 

I'm not surprised you and others are looking to pin this on the HC. You've been proved wrong and will take every opportunity for vindication. The Bengals snapping the ball on a punt with 15 seconds left on the clock is in no way a reason we lost this game. 

Some folks are looking so hard for reasons to blame ZT that they're publicly stating we should have wasted a GameDay roster spot on a backup long snapper.

Because he’s Zac… he’s Shula with a good roster

(09-11-2022, 09:22 PM)Wyche Wrote: For the love of God..... Wilcox is the backup emergency snapper. He ***** choked. That's all there is to it 

Lol, you could explain away anything by saying 'they choked'. We have no clue what kind of snapping game we'd get from Wilcox if we now had to rely on him all next week. We don't know what his normal level would be. I'm sure it must be better than yesterday if he's the backup.

The fact neither the blocked XP or the FG were even remotely close to well ran plays, and the fact we then had to give Pittsburgh time for 1-2 extra plays because of nobody having any faith Wilcox would snap it well, is a capitulation you can't have.

However simplified you want to make it, all I'll say is I think the backup unit will be a bit more ready to take over in future.   

(09-12-2022, 05:41 AM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: Lol, you could explain away anything by saying 'they choked'. We have no clue what kind of snapping game we'd get from Wilcox if we now had to rely on him all next week. We don't know what his normal level would be. I'm sure it must be better than yesterday if he's the backup.

The fact neither the blocked XP or the FG were even remotely close to well ran plays, and the fact we then had to give Pittsburgh time for 1-2 extra plays because of nobody having any faith Wilcox would snap it well, is a capitulation you can't have.

However simplified you want to make it, all I'll say is I think the backup unit will be a bit more ready to take over in future.   

We have another specialist long snapper on the practice squad we'll call up. You can't waste a game day roster spot on a guy who does one thing. That's why Wilcox is the emergency backup. He can do three things. Play teams, play TE, and be the emergency long snapper. You guys are just trying way too hard to not blame Joe Burrow, lol.

(09-12-2022, 07:20 AM)Wyche Wrote: We have another specialist long snapper on the practice squad we'll call up. You can't waste a game day roster spot on a guy who does one thing. That's why Wilcox is the emergency backup. He can do three things. Play teams, play TE, and be the emergency long snapper. You guys are just trying way too hard to not blame Joe Burrow, lol.

And you're trying way too hard to create a narrative that doesn't work (at least in my case). It was Burrow's worst performance to date. He was appalling. He was also part of what got us back into the game (after 10000 last chances) which is something the kicking unit didn't manage, but it's not lost on me that Burrow would take us to a 1-16 record with a season full of those games. We did overcome his performance though, it only took an Extra Point for us to have done so. But I'm aware the loss is far more on him than the kicking unit.

My point isn't about roster spots, but is about the emergency guy has to be in a better position to take over. Nobody expected it to be perfect, there's a reason he's the emergency relief, but we literally went from one of the best kicking units in the league, to that.  It's not just the snapper either, there was no block on Fitzpatrick (who wasn't the furthest outside guy) for the Extra Point. We don't bleed the clock on the OT punt. Huber takes a crappy snap and doesn't help his already shaky kicking unit out, by just sitting on the ball. That's more a collapse than just 'emergency guy choked'. It's a lack of readiness and contingency, considering we only needed one unfortunate injury to be put in that position.

Could very much have stomached kicks beyond 40 yards being no longer sensible, but they couldn't get the most basic of kicking-related things down. We'd have been punting on Extra Points in the Super Bowl with this unit in, and you just can't have that. 

Only plus is such a debacle will have them more ready in the future.

(09-12-2022, 08:49 AM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: And you're trying way too hard to create a narrative that doesn't work (at least in my case). It was Burrow's worst performance to date. He was appalling. He was also part of what got us back into the game (after 10000 last chances) which is something the kicking unit didn't manage, but it's not lost on me that Burrow would take us to a 1-16 record with a season full of those games. We did overcome his performance though, it only took an Extra Point for us to have done so. But I'm aware the loss is far more on him than the kicking unit.

My point isn't about roster spots, but is about the emergency guy has to be in a better position to take over. Nobody expected it to be perfect, there's a reason he's the emergency relief, but we literally went from one of the best kicking units in the league, to that.  It's not just the snapper either, there was no block on Fitzpatrick (who wasn't the furthest outside guy) for the Extra Point. We don't bleed the clock on the OT punt. Huber takes a crappy snap and doesn't help his already shaky kicking unit out, by just sitting on the ball. That's more a collapse than just 'emergency guy choked'. It's a lack of readiness and contingency, considering we only needed one unfortunate injury to be put in that position.

Could very much have stomached kicks beyond 40 yards being no longer sensible, but they couldn't get the most basic of kicking-related things down. We'd have been punting on Extra Points in the Super Bowl with this unit in, and you just can't have that. 

Only plus is such a debacle will have them more ready in the future.

Yeah, I can agree about the kicking game debacle for sure. It's just my point is we never should've been in that position to begin with. We should've steamrolled those guys. We kicked their ass in every single statistical category, but at the end of the day, the -5 turnover differential is the reason we lost. Those other things are inconsequential if you don't give the Steelers a TD with a terrible pick six and four other turnovers. Lap said it today, Taylor said it yesterday, and so did I and a few others. This is the only place NOT saying the five turnovers are what beat us....lol. 

I do appreciate his ability to move on after mistakes, and I LOVE having him as our QB, I'm just not gonna trip over myself to absolve him. If our defense doesn't stifle Pittsburgh, I don't think he has an opportunity to try and get us back in the game. It could've been a lot worse. No team in the league has won a minus five turnover differential in like ten years. You can't turn the ball over that many times at any level and expect to win. We can dissect every little nuance of the game to the nth degree, but the fact remains, the five turnovers are what sunk us....and caused these other issues to become a problem. In fact, we're not even playing OT without the pick six.

(09-12-2022, 08:49 AM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: And you're trying way too hard to create a narrative that doesn't work (at least in my case). It was Burrow's worst performance to date. He was appalling. He was also part of what got us back into the game (after 10000 last chances) which is something the kicking unit didn't manage, but it's not lost on me that Burrow would take us to a 1-16 record with a season full of those games. We did overcome his performance though, it only took an Extra Point for us to have done so. But I'm aware the loss is far more on him than the kicking unit.

My point isn't about roster spots, but is about the emergency guy has to be in a better position to take over. Nobody expected it to be perfect, there's a reason he's the emergency relief, but we literally went from one of the best kicking units in the league, to that.  It's not just the snapper either, there was no block on Fitzpatrick (who wasn't the furthest outside guy) for the Extra Point. We don't bleed the clock on the OT punt. Huber takes a crappy snap and doesn't help his already shaky kicking unit out, by just sitting on the ball. That's more a collapse than just 'emergency guy choked'. It's a lack of readiness and contingency, considering we only needed one unfortunate injury to be put in that position.

Could very much have stomached kicks beyond 40 yards being no longer sensible, but they couldn't get the most basic of kicking-related things down. We'd have been punting on Extra Points in the Super Bowl with this unit in, and you just can't have that. 

Only plus is such a debacle will have them more ready in the future.

...and another thing, it's pretty bad that Huber has played as long as he has and didn't eat that snap. 

(09-11-2022, 11:45 PM)740Bengal Wrote: Because he’s Zac… he’s Shula with a good roster

That he built

(09-12-2022, 08:59 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, I can agree about the kicking game debacle for sure. It's just my point is we never should've been in that position to begin with. We should've steamrolled those guys. We kicked their ass in every single statistical category, but at the end of the day, the -5 turnover differential is the reason we lost. Those other things are inconsequential if you don't give the Steelers a TD with a terrible pick six and four other turnovers. Lap said it today, Taylor said it yesterday, and so did I and a few others. This is the only place NOT saying the five turnovers are what beat us....lol. 

I do appreciate his ability to move on after mistakes, and I LOVE having him as our QB, I'm just not gonna trip over myself to absolve him. If our defense doesn't stifle Pittsburgh, I don't think he has an opportunity to try and get us back in the game. It could've been a lot worse. No team in the league has won a minus five turnover differential in over twenty years. You can't turn the ball over that many times at any level and expect to win. We can dissect every little nuance of the game to the nth degree, but the fact remains, the five turnovers are what sunk us....and caused these other issues to become a problem. In fact, we're not even playing OT without the pick six.

There were loads of things which sunk us. Only good things for me were Chase's numbers and the defence. It was about as awful a performance as anyone could've envisioned. Could also say the mental fortitude shown by tying the game in spite of all the errors, was good too.

Why I'm so frustrated with the kicking screw ups, is that we'd been so bad and still put ourselves in a spot to win... then screwed up AGAIN on what is the most straightforward thing in the entire game. It's the most Bengals of things to do, and we're meant to be proving we're past that baggage now. 'This team is different' etc.... well yesterday they were as Bungles as any. You should be able to make an extra point or a 29-yard FG with some guy from this forum snapping the ball. But you have to be somewhat prepared for one guy getting injured, and I just don't think we looked like we were. 

Burrow was historical levels of bad, but just due to the chronology of the game, we did overcome that. He in part did, the defence massively did... then just simple things cost us again. Make no mistake, we go nowhere if Burrow doesn't improve massively, but people might be highlighting that less as he's generally proven he is the guy in the past, so people have faith he'll be fine. Basic stuff like bleeding the clock in OT, falling on bad snaps... attempting blocking on a game winning XP attempt... failing on those things is just so basic. But it's one game, we'll see over the course of the season.

(09-11-2022, 10:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks have agendas and will look to whatever supports their agendas; it soothes their cognitive dissonance. 

IF you think Zac is not a good coach, you'll point to whatever you can fabricate to support your POV

IF you don't like Pollack it's Oline

IF you think we should have kept Pryor; it's because of our #4 WR

I personally think JB is the main reason we lost followed closely by injuries to Higgins and Harris. I just cannot grasp the concept it's because we snapped a ball too early on a punt. 

I do think Zac went for it on 4th down when we were within FG range was a poor choice, but I don't know if that was before or after Harris. injury.

The good news 

I like Taylor, but he contributed to our loss as well. This team was not prepared. He botched a few things that kept us from winning, despite Burrow having a really bad 1st half. Burrow did have a better 2nd half, and with better coaching and in game decisions, we win that game.

Yes, Burrow deserves blame, but I am not going to ignore that Taylor also had a bad showing. I will call it like it is.
How do you not challenge that TD throw to Chase? I get not wanting to kick a FG with Harris out, but we came away with 0 points on that drive. You have to challenge in that situation. I think this is much worst than the leaving time on the clock with our last Punt in OT. 

Also, Taylor should have made it clear, that any bad snap be downed on that FG attempt on 3rd down in OT. And if he did make it clear, then Huber also deserves some flack.

With that said, I am not calling for anyone's head. No need to panic after week 1, but there are things to learn from.

Zac = Marvin Lewis love child...