(09-14-2022, 03:47 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Your summary is not crazy at all. There's a heck of alot more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye. Agents meddle far more than we know. They see how teams negotiate and usually only see this the the ones lens that means something to them.

And yet somehow YOU know this as fact? 

(09-14-2022, 03:44 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: He won’t be offered a large contract if teams suspect malingering.

Meh... Mulugheta is one of the most powerful agents in sports. His clientele is a strength that he leverages and is a protective mechanism for the players who sign with him. That's not to say they have carte blanche to do whatever they want on and off the field, but it stands to reason that they have more margin for error (see DeShaun Watson).

Moreover, based on the guaranteed % contracts handed out to safeties this summer by Mike Brown's peers, it's fair to say his fellow owners may not necessarily agree with what he's doing either, and won't hold possible "malingering" against a gem wideout like Tee Higgins- they'll know what's going on. 

Above all, every stakeholder here will make their decisions based on factors that aren't reported by the media. These conversations and negotiations are ongoing and endless. Like I think I said in my original post, it may not be quite like Jerry Maguire haha, but politics still drive these relationships as much as the things you see on the field. Which I guess is my overriding point. There's almost certainly plenty of drama playing out behind the scenes right now that we don't hear about. That's the business whether we like it or not.

(09-14-2022, 03:47 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Your summary is not crazy at all. There's a heck of alot more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye. Agents meddle far more than we know. They see how teams negotiate and usually only see this the the ones lens that means something to them.

This entire game is about the $$ from billions of $$ TV contracts, to stadium naming rights, to $15.00 beers, $70.00 parking to players contracts that are structured so crazy anymore it takes an entire accounting/law firm to breakdown.

Exactly what I'm saying. You put it far better than I did lol. It's not an indictment of Higgins either- these are just the norms of the league. It's not that they don't care about football, it's just that they don't care about it as much as the bottom line. And that's true for players, agents, coaches, managers, owners- everybody involved.

(09-14-2022, 04:00 PM)tms Wrote: Meh... Mulugheta is one of the most powerful agents in sports. His clientele is a strength that he leverages and is a protective mechanism for the players who sign with him. That's not to say they have carte blanche to do whatever they want on and off the field, but it stands to reason that they have more margin for error (see DeShaun Watson).

Moreover, based on the guaranteed % contracts handed out to safeties this summer by Mike Brown's peers, it's fair to say his fellow owners may not necessarily agree with what he's doing either, and won't hold possible "malingering" against a gem wideout like Tee Higgins- they'll know what's going on. 

Above all, every stakeholder here will make their decisions based on factors that aren't reported by the media. These conversations and negotiations are ongoing and endless. Like I think I said in my original post, it may not be quite like Jerry Maguire haha, but politics still drive these relationships as much as the things you see on the field. Which I guess is my overriding point. There's almost certainly plenty of drama playing out behind the scenes right now that we don't hear about. That's the business whether we like it or not.

Players are offered contracts for their performance. Not their agent’s collective clientele.

Not every team shares Cleveland’s decision making model. As Lamar Jackson is learning.

(09-14-2022, 04:06 PM)tms Wrote: Exactly what I'm saying. You put it far better than I did lol. It's not an indictment of Higgins either- these are just the norms of the league. It's not that they don't care about football, it's just that they don't care about it as much as the bottom line. And that's true for players, agents, coaches, managers, owners- everybody involved.

The norm? How many players sit out after they have been cleared to play following an injury?

How did we go from Tee being a victim of helmet to helmet, to Tee gaming the system so he can get his next big contract.???

(09-14-2022, 04:11 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: How did we go from Tee being a victim of helmet to helmet, to Tee gaming the system so he can get his next big contract.???

My guess is that we got here by equating "protecting himself coming off a concussion" with "gaming the system" haha

(09-14-2022, 04:08 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The norm? How many players sit out after they have been cleared to play following an injury?

The norm is that they prioritize their business over their football interests. The real world is a bit more nuanced than we make it out to be on the Internet, aka "Shooting the Messenger, Inc." lol 

This whole thread took a weird turn. Tee Higgins will play this week assuming he passes the standard concussion protocol.

(09-14-2022, 03:39 PM)tms Wrote: I'm not saying he's not going to play. No need to get defensive about it. I just think there's a heightened risk based on the Bates fiasco. To what extent I don't know, but it'll be interesting to watch. If Mulugheta feels Bates was done wrong by the Bengals' hardball strategy this summer- and last summer, for that matter, when he was in the same position as Tee will be next February- it's not the craziest thing in the world to expect some future implications.

Yes, it is a business for Mike Brown. It's also a business (even more so, I would say) for players, their families and their agents. The NFL system is famously skewed to the owners. To think players and their reps won't protect themselves by using one of the few cards at their disposal (i.e., their availability) is a bit naive.

No one'll sit out the entire season lol, but they will be more vigilant throughout the process and play a little "hardball" of their own, especially if they're the caliber of a Tee Higgins who will surely be offered a monster contract when they hit market and whose "agency brethren" have already been burned by the same owner. As such, they may not see as much of need to put themselves in harm's way in the meantime. Don't blame it on me, either- this is common sense.

What Bates fiasco?  He wanted more than the team offered, was tagged, sat out a bit and is playing on the tag.  This happens EVERY YEAR.  Maybe this is your first year watching the NFL?  Agents dont make a player sit out when healthy, this is absurd.  And it looks like your take that Tee will be out a few weeks isnt correct.

When teams evaluate a player and their abilities availability is at the top of the list. If a player is sitting out to avoid injury that isnt going to make them more enticing or provide them more money.   

(09-14-2022, 04:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: This whole thread took a weird turn. Tee Higgins will play this week assuming he passes the standard concussion protocol.

(09-14-2022, 04:25 PM)tms Wrote: The norm is that they prioritize their business over their football interests. The real world is a bit more nuanced than we make it out to be on the Internet, aka "Shooting the Messenger, Inc." lol 

Football is their business. The appearance of malingering would hurt that business. In order for it to be the “norm,” the players refusing to player after being cleared would need to be a majority. You can’t even name a handful.

if I was Tee, I'd sit this one out

(09-14-2022, 03:47 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Your summary is not crazy at all. There's a heck of alot more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye. Agents meddle far more than we know. They see how teams negotiate and usually only see this the the ones lens that means something to them.

This entire game is about the $$ from billions of $$ TV contracts, to stadium naming rights, to $15.00 beers, $70.00 parking to players contracts that are structured so crazy anymore it takes an entire accounting/law firm to breakdown.

How do we know something is happening more than we know, when we don’t know how much it is happening, to know it is more than the unknown amount we don’t know?

(09-14-2022, 05:44 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote:

Exactly this.    There honestly is zero indication other then wild speculation that an agent would be at play here.    It's really simple.   if Tee clears the concussion protocol, he will play.    If reports are true that he wanted to go back into the game this past Sunday, I don't see why that would be different this week unless there is another injury that hasn't been disclosed.    Nothing is indicating that to be the case.  

(09-14-2022, 04:25 PM)tms Wrote: The norm is that they prioritize their business over their football interests. The real world is a bit more nuanced than we make it out to be on the Internet, aka "Shooting the Messenger, Inc." lol 

You didn't answer his question. You're the one who made the claim"these are just the norms of the league. It's not that they don't care about football, it's just that they don't care about it as much as the bottom line." 


So let's see your proof that this is "the norm". I'd love to see your list of players cleared from injury who said "nah I'm good" and don't play vs those that were cleared and played. 


The only one who I can think of that did that was Cordy Glenn. Guess how that "business decision" worked out for him? 

(09-14-2022, 06:17 PM)TheFan Wrote: You didn't answer his question. You're the one who made the claim"these are just the norms of the league. It's not that they don't care about football, it's just that they don't care about it as much as the bottom line." 


So let's see your proof that this is "the norm". I'd love to see your list of players cleared from injury who said "nah I'm good" and don't play vs those that were cleared and played. 


The only one who I can think of that did that was Cordy Glenn. Guess how that "business decision" worked out for him? 

Lol Jesus, relax. Holy smokes.

You're arguing with yourself. I never said the norm was that players sit out when they're healthy. That was a straw man shoved in my mouth by somebody else. I used the word "norm" (which bothers you so much) in the context of how they- players, agents, coaches, managers and owners alike- prioritize their financial well-being over the interests of the football team. For them the world invariably revolves around how much money they're bringing home, not the performance of your FF team. Some of the time (most of the time?) the two are in alignment. But not necessarily. This is common sense.

You can get mad at me all you want. You can use font size 100 lol. But there is more of a human element to this game than you let on. Most of these players are tough as nails, but none of them are Roman Gladiators. They are all breadwinners, though.

I'm not even saying Tee will miss the game! Good lord. How would I know. I just said that I'll be watching given how the Bates situation played out, and how they share the same agent. If you don't think it'll be a problem and that one has nothing to do with the other, more power to you. You might even be right. Zac has laid a strong culture and these guys seem willing put their heads on the line for each other (for better or worse).  Last year Hendrickson, Wilson, Sample, Chido, Mixon, Tee himself and others all played through significant injuries in a way I wouldn't have previously expected from this team. In fact, Hendrickson came back from a concussion like Tee. So if last year is anything to go by, he'll be back asap. But if the context has changed on account of Bates (not the craziest argument in the world) players may be a bit more vigilant moving forward...

May- not will.

(09-14-2022, 06:17 PM)TheFan Wrote: You didn't answer his question. You're the one who made the claim"these are just the norms of the league. It's not that they don't care about football, it's just that they don't care about it as much as the bottom line." 


So let's see your proof that this is "the norm". I'd love to see your list of players cleared from injury who said "nah I'm good" and don't play vs those that were cleared and played. 


The only one who I can think of that did that was Cordy Glenn. Guess how that "business decision" worked out for him? 

And for the record, do you think if he's "cleared" that means he's healthy? To me that's a bridge too far. Did you see that hit? Whether he's still exhibiting symptoms or not, you think that would mean he's 100%?!?! Absolutely no chance. Of course only Tee would know, but I'd think that's a pretty safe assumption. Who knows how long it'll take before he's back to 100. This league is f ridiculous. CTE is commonplace irrespective of whether you get cleared by the doctor. You'd do well to acknowledge that and respect the rigors that these players put themselves through for the entertainment of you and I. If you think everyone who passes the protocol is necessarily healthy... I'm sorry... your bar is way too low. 

(09-14-2022, 06:55 PM)tms Wrote: Lol Jesus, relax. Holy smokes.

You're arguing with yourself. I never said the norm was that players sit out when they're healthy. That was a straw man shoved in my mouth by somebody else. I used the word "norm" (which bothers you so much) in the context of how they- players, agents, coaches, managers and owners alike- prioritize their financial well-being over the interests of the football team. For them the world invariably revolves around how much money they're bringing home, not the performance of your FF team. Some of the time (most of the time?) the two are in alignment. But not necessarily. This is common sense.

You can get mad at me all you want. You can use font size 100 lol. But there is more of a human element to this game than you let on. Most of these players are tough as nails, but none of them are Roman Gladiators. They are all breadwinners, though.

I'm not even saying Tee will miss the game! Good lord. How would I know. I just said that I'll be watching given how the Bates situation played out, and how they share the same agent. If you don't think it'll be a problem and that one has nothing to do with the other, more power to you. You might even be right. Zac has laid a strong culture and these guys seem willing put their heads on the line for each other (for better or worse).  Last year Hendrickson, Wilson, Sample, Chido, Mixon, Tee himself and others all played through significant injuries in a way I wouldn't have previously expected from this team. In fact, Hendrickson came back from a concussion like Tee. So if last year is anything to go by, he'll be back asap. But if the context has changed on account of Bates (not the craziest argument in the world) players may be a bit more vigilant moving forward...

May- not will.

You type so many words just to go back on the argument you continued to try to make and got called out for. You said you would be "shocked if he played this week" because his agent wants him to not get hurt and that you "expect these players to be taking their jolly time recovering from injuries this year". You then in another post stated "it's not that they don't care about football, it's just that they don't care about it as much as the bottom line." Further indicating you think he's going to pull a Cordy Glenn.

Just because people call you out on your long winded nonsense doesn't meant they're being defensive or mad.

Also I do this from my phone so I can't really see big changes in font size. 

(09-14-2022, 04:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: This whole thread took a weird turn. Tee Higgins will play this week assuming he passes the standard concussion protocol.

Yep

All this other crud is just smoke filled coffee house crap.