(09-18-2022, 11:27 PM)jj22 Wrote: There are plenty who disagree the case is as closed as you claim it to be... 

Defense and McPherson won the playoff games.

There are not plenty, that is a dumb case - Chase is elite.  Burrow did more than anyone to get us to the playoffs.

(09-21-2022, 07:00 AM)casear2727 Wrote: There are not plenty, that is a dumb case - Chase is elite.  Burrow did more than anyone to get us to the playoffs.

This case will remain open for as long as we cry about protection and witness Burrow's regression into the 4th best QB of the draft. 1 year of success vs sustained success and a QB not looking to be injured for the 3rd year in a row (he won't survive this beating without getting injured again). 

It's great to have an elite wideout, but at what expense? A Franchise QB whos career was ruined due to injury or as we see now being Carr'd? Selling out for 1 year of success I get, but at what cost to the QB?

That's why the debate still rages amongst many fans. Would Burrow be getting slammed and mocked throughout the sports world and fanbases if his protection was on point? I'd argue what many continue to argued in that a protected Burrow wouldn't need an "elite" receiver to succeed, in fact, an elite QB would make a mid round receiver "elite" as many have done in the past.

(09-21-2022, 10:15 AM)jj22 Wrote: This case will remain open for as long as we cry about protection and witness Burrow's regression into the 4th best QB of the draft. 1 year of success vs sustained success and a QB not looking to be injured for the 3rd year in a row (he won't survive this beating without getting injured again). 

It's great to have an elite wideout, but at what expense? A Franchise QB whos career was ruined due to injury or as we see now being Carr'd? Selling out for 1 year of success I get, but at what cost to the QB?

That's why the debate still rages amongst many fans. Would Burrow be getting slammed and mocked throughout the sports world and fanbases if his protection was on point? I'd argue what many continue to argued in that a protected Burrow wouldn't need an "elite" receiver to succeed, in fact, an elite QB would make a mid round receiver "elite" as many have done in the past.

A single wide receiver can impact the entire game. One offensive lineman cannot.  I guess that is my point in the simplest form.

(09-21-2022, 10:28 AM)casear2727 Wrote: A single wide receiver can impact the entire game. One offensive lineman cannot.  I guess that is my point in the simplest form.

Yep. An elite WR is invaluable.

A true #1 receiver CHANGES EVERYTHING for a Young QB.
Here are Josh Allen’s improvements in year 1 with Stefon Diggs:
-Completion %- 58.8➡️69.2
-17 more touchdown passes
-1,455 more passing yards
Jalen Hurts is experiencing the same improvements to his game with AJ Brown.

— Robert Griffin III (@RGIII) September 20, 2022

Both Bills and Eagles have Olines....

(09-21-2022, 12:28 PM)jj22 Wrote: Both Bills and Eagles have Olines....

For the millionth time one tackle wasn’t transforming our OL. Chase did transform our offense. Period.

Literally no one ever advocated for not addressing the OL with both draft picks (just not #5OA - Chase was too good to pass up) and in FA.

A Franchise LT will change the whole OLine though. Believe it or not. It happens, and I'm not sure why, but shoring up the LT spot seems to work wonders across the line.

This has only been debated on this board (for obvious reasons, I get it). But when building a team, it's pretty common knowledge that the LT comes before the wideout.

These teams you keep mentioning have Olines.

Can you name the teams that don't have great lines and how are they doing with their elite wideouts? There aren't many built like ours (with great wideouts without the line) because the success isn't sustainable.

Hell, as good as Sewell and Slater have been, the best O-lineman in that draft is probably Creed Humphrey. And he was sitting right there for us in the 2nd, but we took Carman and traded back for 2 guys that have had 0 impact.

If we would have come out of that draft with Chase, Humphrey, McPherson…

Man, could have been an all timer.

(09-21-2022, 01:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: A Franchise LT will change the whole OLine though. Believe it or not. It happens, and I'm not sure why, but shoring up the LT spot seems to work wonders across the line.

This has only been debated on this board (for obvious reasons, I get it). But when building a team, it's pretty common knowledge that the LT comes before the wideout.

That is a super lol statement. 

How many guys can a LT block?

(09-21-2022, 01:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hell, as good as Sewell and Slater have been, the best O-lineman in that draft is probably Creed Humphrey. And he was sitting right there for us in the 2nd, but we took Carman and traded back for 2 guys that have had 0 impact.

If we would have come out of that draft with Chase, Humphrey, McPherson…

Man, could have been an all timer.

I can't argue with those facts.

(09-21-2022, 01:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: A Franchise LT will change the whole OLine though. Believe it or not. It happens, and I'm not sure why, but shoring up the LT spot seems to work wonders across the line.

This has only been debated on this board (for obvious reasons, I get it). But when building a team, it's pretty common knowledge that the LT comes before the wideout.

They had a young LT that they just used the #11OA pick on. It’s pretty easy to understand the rationale.

It just sucks Jonah has not only not taken the next step, but looks to have regressed some. It’s a long season though, and he’s talented enough to get it figured out. We saw some really good stretches from his last season.

(09-21-2022, 01:02 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That is a super lol statement. 

How many guys can a LT block?

It's not an LOL statement. You are just exposing yourself for the lack of knowledge. 

Being able to block 1 on 1 with no help the opposing teams best rusher, frees up everyone else. Allows for the TE and RB to help other spots on the line. Adding Whit turned the whole Rams line into a force, we see it all the time. There is a reason outside of QB, LT is the next spot you tackle when building a team. 

(09-21-2022, 01:09 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's not an LOL statement. You are just exposing yourself for the lack of knowledge. 

Being able to block 1 on 1 with no help the opposing teams best rusher, frees up everyone else. Allows for the TE and RB to help other spots on the line. Adding Whit turned the whole Rams line into a force, we see it all the time. There is a reason outside of QB, LT is the next spot you tackle when building a team. 

But our OL was absolute dogshit even with Whit in 2016. Which kind of highlights how an elite LT can only do so much for a bad line/offense.

And it’s not really as simple as “LT is #2 when building a team” anymore. A lot of the best pass rushers move around, or even play on the inside.

After QB, there’s a handful of premier positions that are all pretty close in terms of importance; WR, LT, EDGE, and CB.

(09-21-2022, 01:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: But our OL was absolute dogshit even with Whit in 2016. Which kind of highlights how an elite LT can only do so much for a bad line/offense.

And it’s not really as simple as “LT is #2 when building a team” anymore. A lot of the best pass rushers move around, or even play on the inside.

After QB, there’s a handful of premier positions that are all pretty close in terms of importance; WR, LT, EDGE, and CB.

Well Whit certainly wasn't Whit for us which is why many fans were OK with him not getting the big payday, but somehow he did bounce back when for the Rams.

Either way, I'm just sick of the Oline issues, and wish they were long solved. 

Collins is not practicing today...out of everyone one the line, he needs the reps

(09-21-2022, 01:09 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's not an LOL statement. You are just exposing yourself for the lack of knowledge. 

Being able to block 1 on 1 with no help the opposing teams best rusher, frees up everyone else. Allows for the TE and RB to help other spots on the line. Adding Whit turned the whole Rams line into a force, we see it all the time. There is a reason outside of QB, LT is the next spot you tackle when building a team. 

Wow, that's...interesting. lol


Just real quick; 
1. The LT doesn't always block the "best rusher". 
2. When the LT blocks 1 on 1, which they do a lot already, it doesn't "free up everyone else". It frees up the guy who was going to be helping--and that only applies when you don't trust your T to block 1 on 1. Everyone else already has their own responsibility. 
3. The great LT can't block for anyone else on the line or in the backfield, therefore, it's impossible for him to "work wonders across the line.", unless he has some magic powers to transform bad/average/good linemen into better players. 

Any singular, very good to great Oline guy makes his position better and he can mitigate the need for help, but that doesn't magically make the whole line better. 

"exposing yourself for the lack of knowledge". 
That's a good one.  

(09-21-2022, 01:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: But our OL was absolute dogshit even with Whit in 2016. Which kind of highlights how an elite LT can only do so much for a bad line/offense.

And it’s not really as simple as “LT is #2 when building a team” anymore. A lot of the best pass rushers move around, or even play on the inside.

After QB, there’s a handful of premier positions that are all pretty close in terms of importance; WR, LT, EDGE, and CB.

I believe CB is currently 2nd in line in WAR, behind QB. WR was higher too. If i recall correctly, T was around the middle of the pack. 

(09-21-2022, 10:15 AM)jj22 Wrote: This case will remain open for as long as we cry about protection and witness Burrow's regression into the 4th best QB of the draft. 1 year of success vs sustained success and a QB not looking to be injured for the 3rd year in a row (he won't survive this beating without getting injured again). 

It's great to have an elite wideout, but at what expense? A Franchise QB whos career was ruined due to injury or as we see now being Carr'd? Selling out for 1 year of success I get, but at what cost to the QB?

That's why the debate still rages amongst many fans. Would Burrow be getting slammed and mocked throughout the sports world and fanbases if his protection was on point? I'd argue what many continue to argued in that a protected Burrow wouldn't need an "elite" receiver to succeed, in fact, an elite QB would make a mid round receiver "elite" as many have done in the past.

Wait... Are you claiming that Jalen Hurts and Tua are now better than Joe Burrow? Tough crowd.

Also... Tua's about to get the shit smacked outta him on Sunday.

(09-21-2022, 07:00 AM)casear2727 Wrote: There are not plenty, that is a dumb case - Chase is elite.  Burrow did more than anyone to get us to the playoffs.

Actually Money Mac did more than anyone to get us to playoffs.no one was more consistent last yr. 2nd was Chase then Burrow and Hendrickson

(09-21-2022, 07:04 PM)jason Wrote: Wait... Are you claiming that Jalen Hurts and Tua are now better than Joe Burrow? Tough crowd.

Also... Tua's about to get the shit smacked outta him on Sunday.

Not now, but their trajectory in the 3rd year is headed in the right direction.