Our line is bad but it seems like our coaches are finally figuring out that a bad line means that the quarterback needs to release the ball quick because Burrow was 21 of 24 for 201 yards in passes thrown within 10 yards.

We only ran the ball 14 times which is because the Saints were loading the box and forcing us to throw, which I love that our coaches recognized it and adjusted accordingly, but I do think that we shouldn’t give up on the run completely and run as little as we did.

Let’s hope our coaches stay this smart because we’ll be a tough team to beat if we adjust properly like we did against the Saints!

(10-18-2022, 09:29 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Our line is bad but it seems like our coaches are finally figuring out that a bad line means that the quarterback needs to release the ball quick because Burrow was 21 of 24 for 201 yards in passes thrown within 10 yards.

We only ran the ball 14 times which is because the Saints were loading the box and forcing us to throw, which I love that our coaches recognized it and adjusted accordingly, but I do think that we shouldn’t give up on the run completely and run as little as we did.

Let’s hope our coaches stay this smart because we’ll be a tough team to beat if we adjust properly like we did against the Saints!

They are not just now figuring it out, they are NFL coaches, they know this. Someone has to be open to throw to and that wasn't happening in the early games.

(10-18-2022, 09:33 AM)Sled21 Wrote: They are not just now figuring it out, they are NFL coaches, they know this. Someone has to be open to throw to and that wasn't happening in the early games.

Yep and it's not so much the coaches figuring out that the ball needs to be released faster as most of that is on Burrow to break tendencies and habits.I don't think ZT tells Burrow to count to 5 back there and hang onto the ball.

OL pass blocking and run blocking much better which sometimes puts another defender in the box, thus,giving JB more time both to hit open receivers and, more importantly, "throw open" to receivers.

(10-18-2022, 09:29 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Our line is bad but it seems like our coaches are finally figuring out that a bad line means that the quarterback needs to release the ball quick because Burrow was 21 of 24 for 201 yards in passes thrown within 10 yards.

We only ran the ball 14 times which is because the Saints were loading the box and forcing us to throw, which I love that our coaches recognized it and adjusted accordingly, but I do think that we shouldn’t give up on the run completely and run as little as we did.

Let’s hope our coaches stay this smart because we’ll be a tough team to beat if we adjust properly like we did against the Saints!

The difference I noticed were the routes and portion of the field that was utilized. A lot of the quick hits were slants using the middle of the field. Big change from our typical passes which is outside the hashes. They essentially moved the ball at will yesterday aside from when Mixon was giving up sacks.

(10-18-2022, 09:29 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Our line is bad but it seems like our coaches are finally figuring out that a bad line means that the quarterback needs to release the ball quick because Burrow was 21 of 24 for 201 yards in passes thrown within 10 yards.

We only ran the ball 14 times which is because the Saints were loading the box and forcing us to throw, which I love that our coaches recognized it and adjusted accordingly, but I do think that we shouldn’t give up on the run completely and run as little as we did.

Let’s hope our coaches stay this smart because we’ll be a tough team to beat if we adjust properly like we did against the Saints!

But improving a good bit. And I feel they're (coaches/Burrow) starting to get it figured out. I believe we're going to see a different team moving forward.

Sunday was the best Burrow looked all season. My guess is the #1 reason for our struggles offensively had to do with Burrow. Whether it was him not being patient enough to attack Cover 2, whether it was the appendectomy, whatever it was, I think Burrow may have finally overcome it. Let's hope so anyway

(10-18-2022, 09:50 AM)higgy100 Wrote: Yep and it's not so much the coaches figuring out that the ball needs to be released faster as most of that is on Burrow to break tendencies and habits.I don't think ZT tells Burrow to count to 5 back there and hang onto the ball.

OL pass blocking and run blocking much better which sometimes puts another defender in the box, thus,giving JB more time both to hit open receivers and, more importantly, "throw open" to receivers.

This....how many times have we seen Hurst or Boyd open and ignored? Joe finally took what they gave him. As bfine said in the GD thread, amazing what execution and hitting the open man will do for playcalling, lol.

(10-18-2022, 09:57 AM)thompson19osu Wrote: The difference I noticed were the routes and portion of the field that was utilized. A lot of the quick hits were slants using the middle of the field. Big change from our typical passes which is outside the hashes. They essentially moved the ball at will yesterday aside from when Mixon was giving up sacks.

Yep

That's what they were avoiding like the plague early on and I don't know why ? To really shine they've got to use the entire field.

(10-18-2022, 10:02 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Sunday was the best Burrow looked all season. My guess is the #1 reason for our struggles offensively had to do with Burrow. Whether it was him not being patient enough to attack Cover 2, whether it was the appendectomy, whatever it was, I think Burrow may have finally overcome it. Let's hope so anyway

Yep, Joe Burrow sucks. 

I feel Joe has been a bigger part of our problem than most of us want to admit. Trying too hard to knock it out of the park on every play. Don't get me wrong I love Joe and think he's the best thing to happen to Cincinnati since well forever.

But he has to learn it can't be a 45 yard pass on every play. And I believe he's getting it figured out.

I know a lot of people don't want to hear this...but having success running the ball is the number one reason why this offense is taking off.

They are running everything out of shotgun now and have ditched the outside zone stuff. Defenses aren't playing as much two high and are now respecting our running game. This completely opens up the offense.

Mixon has looked awesome the past couple of weeks.

(10-18-2022, 10:09 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep, Joe Burrow sucks. 

I feel Joe has been a bigger part of our problem than most of us want to admit. Trying too hard to knock it out of the park on every play. Don't get me wrong I love Joe and think he's the best thing to happen to Cincinnati since well forever.

But he has to learn it can't be a 45 yard pass on every play. And I believe he's getting it figured out.

He is definitely maturing as a QB. From week 1 against the Steelers trying to force everything down field to Sunday against the Saints being patient, taking underneath stuff, etc. It's happening right before our eyes.  

(10-18-2022, 10:11 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I know a lot of people don't want to hear this...but having success running the ball is the number one reason why this offense is taking off.

They are running everything out of shotgun now and have ditched the outside zone stuff. Defenses aren't playing as much two high and are now respecting our running game. This completely opens up the offense.

Mixon has looked awesome the past couple of weeks.

I wouldn't attribute it to the run game. Burrow laid an egg against Baltimore, but he lit up New York and Miami. Both of those games, the Bengals were putrid running the ball. This past game, Cincinnati ran the ball well, but the biggest play was Chase taking a routine catch, breaking two tackles and going 60 yards for the TD. Teams are still running plenty of two high looks. New Orleans ran a high % of two deep coverages. 

(10-18-2022, 10:41 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I wouldn't attribute it to the run game. Burrow laid an egg against Baltimore, but he lit up New York and Miami. Both of those games, the Bengals were putrid running the ball. This past game, Cincinnati ran the ball well, but the biggest play was Chase taking a routine catch, breaking two tackles and going 60 yards for the TD. Teams are still running plenty of two high looks. New Orleans ran a high % of two deep coverages. 

I think you do have to admit though Goose that having a least a "decent" running game doesn't hurt anything.

(10-18-2022, 10:44 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think you do have to admit though Goose that having a least a "decent" running game doesn't hurt anything.

Oh, of course. It doesn't hurt anything. I just wouldn't attribute the New Orleans game to it. Running has value, particularly in the red zone and short yardage situations. It really helps finish off drives. It just doesn't help your passing game much. It can make the defense play you differently, but not inherently worse. Just as the run game was good against Baltimore and Burrow stunk, the run game was good and Burrow was fantastic against New Orleans, and the run game stunk and Burrow was fantastic against New York/Miami. 

That's just Burrow and Co. making the plays we know they can. 

(10-18-2022, 10:47 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Oh, of course. It doesn't hurt anything. I just wouldn't attribute the New Orleans game to it. Running has value, particularly in the red zone and short yardage situations. It really helps finish off drives. It just doesn't help your passing game much. It can make the defense play you differently, but not inherently worse. Just as the run game was good against Baltimore and Burrow stunk, the run game was good and Burrow was fantastic against New Orleans, and the run game stunk and Burrow was fantastic against New York/Miami. 

That's just Burrow and Co. making the plays we know they can. 

This is why the run game matters. It makes the defense play you differently - which is a huge deal when you have guys like Chase and Higgins who can absolutely feast on man coverage. This is the type of stuff that doesn't show up in analytics. 

The Chase TD at the end of the game essentially turned into man coverage. The safety on his side of the field played down and respected the run/short pass to the TE, the safety on the other side was late coming over. 

(10-18-2022, 10:02 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Sunday was the best Burrow looked all season. My guess is the #1 reason for our struggles offensively had to do with Burrow. Whether it was him not being patient enough to attack Cover 2, whether it was the appendectomy, whatever it was, I think Burrow may have finally overcome it. Let's hope so anyway

Funny thing is he was looking a little off until that big hit from the linebacker on the sideline that drew the flag 

(10-18-2022, 10:58 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This is why the run game matters. It makes the defense play you differently - which is a huge deal when you have guys like Chase and Higgins who can absolutely feast on man coverage. This is the type of stuff that doesn't show up in analytics. 

The Chase TD at the end of the game essentially turned into man coverage. The safety on his side of the field played down and respected the run/short pass to the TE, the safety on the other side was late coming over. 

"Analytics" is very broad nowadays. This stuff does show up and can be accounted for. It can either be included as formational data in a dataframe, or there are even computer vision models that can watch a play and diagnose what is happening. I don't use any computer vision models, personally. At this point, virtually everything can be accounted for in regard to analyzing football. It's a multi-billion dollar industry with advanced technologies available. That doesn't mean it is perfect, but it is very robust. 

Playing differently isn't inherently worse, which was my main point. For instance, you can play man in a two high situation. You can also play zone. Conversely, in a single high look, you can also see man or zone - cover 1 or cover 3. Basically, run man and blitz, or run zone and don't. You're correct that on Chase's long TD, they show two high presnap and rolled into a cover one. The Bengals have seen that look this season, though. Chase just made the play this time. 

(10-18-2022, 10:47 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Oh, of course. It doesn't hurt anything. I just wouldn't attribute the New Orleans game to it. Running has value, particularly in the red zone and short yardage situations. It really helps finish off drives. It just doesn't help your passing game much. It can make the defense play you differently, but not inherently worse. Just as the run game was good against Baltimore and Burrow stunk, the run game was good and Burrow was fantastic against New Orleans, and the run game stunk and Burrow was fantastic against New York/Miami. 

That's just Burrow and Co. making the plays we know they can. 

I've also been of the opinion it helps finish off seasons as well. What I mean is when you get into the back half of your schedule and the weather gets colder and wetter and more miserable the passing game tends to slow a bit. And you need the ability to get those 3rd and two's, score in the red zone inside the 5 running it. Kill the clock late in games and so on.

It can and often does make a big difference in the W column. 

(10-18-2022, 10:03 AM)Wyche Wrote: This....how many times have we seen Hurst or Boyd open and ignored? Joe finally took what they gave him. As bfine said in the GD thread, amazing what execution and hitting the open man will do for playcalling, lol.

Yeah, I'm not sold on the coaches having any sort of revelation that suddenly changed the product on the field.  Like you, I think that it's more a case of the guys on the field getting it together and playing up to what they have shown to be capable of.  OL getting a little continuity, Joe scanning his entire array of weapons on any given play, defense hanging tough in the face of injuries.

(10-18-2022, 09:29 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Our line is bad but it seems like our coaches are finally figuring out that a bad line means that the quarterback needs to release the ball quick because Burrow was 21 of 24 for 201 yards in passes thrown within 10 yards.

We only ran the ball 14 times which is because the Saints were loading the box and forcing us to throw, which I love that our coaches recognized it and adjusted accordingly, but I do think that we shouldn’t give up on the run completely and run as little as we did.

Let’s hope our coaches stay this smart because we’ll be a tough team to beat if we adjust properly like we did against the Saints!

Joe gets tons of unprecedented leeway in free lancing in this offense. It’s paid huge dividends. But he’s been slow to accept the short passing game. The coaches haven’t neglected Tyler Boyd. The coaches haven’t just learned how to defeat the cover 2 with deep safeties. Joe hates it. They’ve been adapting the offense to suit Joe’s preferences. Zac said after the game that the offense bought into the scheme for NO. What he meant was Joe. Joe finally realized the cover 2 wasn’t going away. He adapted. Joe wants to win and his mindset has changed. They are working on the receivers breaking more tackles on short passes and their YAC. Of course the OL playing better has helped. There’s not a staff that’s ever coached in the NFL thst would wait until the 6th game to adapt. Joe just hated it. He’s still learning and hates to lose.