Joe Burrow is a great quarterback throwing to great receivers. It’s great fun to watch and it makes the Cincinnati Bengals’ offense extremely dangerous and potent. The offensive line is doing a much better job in pass protection and Burrow is making better decisions when nobody is open like running the ball himself, throwing the ball out of bounds, throwing it in bounds for a purposeful incompletion, or even taking a sack to preserve possession. I love the Bengals’ passing game...

...but the air attack will become even more deadly when the run game becomes more effective. Right now the Bengals are winning games with largely a one-dimensional offense but when it gets cold, windy, and rainy later in the season running the football will be not just necessary but essential. Controlling the clock to protect a lead means relying on the run.

If the offensive line can learn to protect Joe Burrow they can learn to block for Joe Mixon. I’ve watched all year and the issue I see is first contact; Mixon is often hit at the line of scrimmage and sometimes behind it. Mixon is a good open field runner but he’s ineffective if he’s hit early. Many of the tackles made against Mixon are made by linebackers shooting gaps — usually the left side A-gap between Ted Karras and Cordell Volson. The right side A-gap integrity is slightly better which makes sense with veteran Alex Cappa at right guard.

Running Mixon to the far outside isn’t much better. It seems to me the best lanes for him either are off tackle with a tight end to that side or with Burrow handing off very late on a delayed draw.

Teams will cover the pass this season to varying degrees; count on it. Not every team will play a soft zone like New Orleans or be beat up in the secondary like Atlanta. It’s time to do whatever it takes to activate the run game.

(10-25-2022, 08:46 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Joe Burrow is a great quarterback throwing to great receivers.  It’s great fun to watch and it makes the Cincinnati Bengals’ offense extremely dangerous and potent.  The offensive line is doing a much better job in pass protection and Burrow is making better decisions when nobody is open like running the ball himself, throwing the ball out of bounds, throwing it in bounds for a purposeful incompletion, or even taking a sack to preserve possession.  I love the Bengals’ passing game...

...but the air attack will become even more deadly when the run game becomes more effective.  Right now the Bengals are winning games with largely a one-dimensional offense but when it gets cold, windy, and rainy later in the season running the football will be not just necessary but essential.  Controlling the clock to protect a lead means relying on the run.

If the offensive line can learn to protect Joe Burrow they can learn to block for Joe Mixon.  I’ve watched all year and the issue I see is first contact; Mixon is often hit at the line of scrimmage and sometimes behind it.  Mixon is a good open field runner but he’s ineffective if he’s hit early.  Many of the tackles made against Mixon are made by linebackers shooting gaps — usually the left side A-gap between Ted Karras and Cordell Volson.  The right side A-gap integrity is slightly better which makes sense with veteran Alex Cappa at right guard.

Running Mixon to the far outside isn’t much better.  It seems to me the best lanes for him either are off tackle with a tight end to that side or with Burrow handing off very late on a delayed draw.

Teams will cover the pass this season to varying degrees; count on it.  Not every team will play a soft zone like New Orleans or be beat up in the secondary like Atlanta.  It’s time to do whatever it takes to activate the run game.

Agree with the points you made. In particular the importance of a run game in bad weather and to control the clock when have a lead. I just don't know if a run game is going to develop. Maybe if we had a Chubb-like runner who can plow ahead even after contact, but I haven't seen that from Mixon. Fortunately, he can catch passes out of the backfield, so we have a lot of weapons for passing, but I think we all would love to have a run game for cold, windy, winter weather and to kill the clock when we have the lead, especially if Allen and Mahomes are on the other sideline.

This team unlike last year’s team has only 1 weakness. That is running the ball which as mentioned by Nepa and the OP Kettering. Last year our pass pro and run game and Apple at CB were issues. If this OL can continue to improve we are better equipped for the SB. But we’ve got to get better in the run game. I actually think it will get better. Let’s hope so.

Agree and the run game would do so much for the Bengals.

Zac did say many more run plays were called for Mixon but Burrow called audibles into passing plays. Of course that proved the right thing to do the past two games, but will need to establish the run eventually or it will bite us in the rear.

Let me say this so the analytics kids don't come in here throwing a temper tantrum. This is a pass first team and we have those weapons and that should be our focus and will be the reason we live or die.

Having said that I agree we have to get our run game going and it has to be more effective. We don't have to have 35 runs a game. Three yards in a cloud of dust smash mouth offense run it down their throat. But it is very nice to rip off some quality runs now and again.

This Sunday for example the Browns are not great against the run. It would be nice to see Mixon gash them a couple times for 15+ yards. Make them respect the run.

They have ran the ball much better the last couple weeks, but they haven’t actually needed to. If a team can’t stop you passing keep passing.

(10-25-2022, 10:43 PM)michaelsean Wrote: They have ran the ball much better the last couple weeks, but they haven’t actually needed to. If a team can’t stop you passing keep passing.

This.

If you’re playing teams that can’t stop the pass, you pass. That’s what happened against both the Saints and Falcons. And I could see them going out and throwing a ton on the Browns next week, too. They have been struggling in their secondary, and Ward might be out.

This isn't 1985 anymore. Those old narratives need to die because they just don't stand up to statistical analysis. 

How many of these imaginary bad weather games have the Bengals needed a running game for in the last few years?

(10-25-2022, 08:46 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Joe Burrow is a great quarterback throwing to great receivers.  It’s great fun to watch and it makes the Cincinnati Bengals’ offense extremely dangerous and potent.  The offensive line is doing a much better job in pass protection and Burrow is making better decisions when nobody is open like running the ball himself, throwing the ball out of bounds, throwing it in bounds for a purposeful incompletion, or even taking a sack to preserve possession.  I love the Bengals’ passing game...

...but the air attack will become even more deadly when the run game becomes more effective.  Right now the Bengals are winning games with largely a one-dimensional offense but when it gets cold, windy, and rainy later in the season running the football will be not just necessary but essential.  Controlling the clock to protect a lead means relying on the run.

If the offensive line can learn to protect Joe Burrow they can learn to block for Joe Mixon.  I’ve watched all year and the issue I see is first contact; Mixon is often hit at the line of scrimmage and sometimes behind it.  Mixon is a good open field runner but he’s ineffective if he’s hit early.  Many of the tackles made against Mixon are made by linebackers shooting gaps — usually the left side A-gap between Ted Karras and Cordell Volson.  The right side A-gap integrity is slightly better which makes sense with veteran Alex Cappa at right guard.

Running Mixon to the far outside isn’t much better.  It seems to me the best lanes for him either are off tackle with a tight end to that side or with Burrow handing off very late on a delayed draw.

Teams will cover the pass this season to varying degrees; count on it.  Not every team will play a soft zone like New Orleans or be beat up in the secondary like Atlanta.  It’s time to do whatever it takes to activate the run game.

The Bengals are doing so much better in the run game now.

The first 4 games Mixon ran the ball on average over 20 carries gaining around 2.5 yards per.  The last 3 games he's averaged only 10 carries and doubled his yards per rush.  The other 10 carries he was getting are now short passes that move the sticks on 1st down instead of Joe gaining 1 yard or losing 1 yard resulting in long 2nd and 3rd downs.  We are much less predictable and those short passes are easy in good or bad weather...

We need to accept that for this squad the pass sets up the run, not the other way around

Also they are clearly in the process of ditching the wide zone in favor of a power gap run scheme. Note the YPC jumped when that began.

(10-26-2022, 01:55 AM)likwit19 Wrote: We need to accept that for this squad the pass sets up the run, not the other way around

Aka, the old Houston Oilers...

(10-25-2022, 10:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This.

If you’re playing teams that can’t stop the pass, you pass. That’s what happened against both the Saints and Falcons. And I could see them going out and throwing a ton on the Browns next week, too. They have been struggling in their secondary, and Ward might be out.

I don't disagree with this.

Nothing is more maddening than running for the sake of running when the obvious weakness of the opponent is pass coverage.

(10-25-2022, 10:39 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Let me say this so the analytics kids don't come in here throwing a temper tantrum.

(10-25-2022, 11:35 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: This isn't 1985 anymore. Those old narratives need to die because they just don't stand up to statistical analysis. 

How many of these imaginary bad weather games have the Bengals needed a running game for in the last few years?

Hey look! It's one of those analytics guys, and it seems like he's got a chip on his shoulder..  

The only real issue I have with the run game is how ineffective it is under center in short yardage situations. On 3rd&1, we seem to get stuffed more often than not. I would not mind them making one of the backup TEs a FB for those plays, it might help us for those plays.

VS the Saints, this time finally play elite and clicking like when we had Henry, Chad and Houz.with a bonus now at TE with Hurst.

(10-25-2022, 11:35 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: This isn't 1985 anymore. Those old narratives need to die because they just don't stand up to statistical analysis. 

How many of these imaginary bad weather games have the Bengals needed a running game for in the last few years?

1975 but I get it. 

(10-26-2022, 01:55 AM)likwit19 Wrote: We need to accept that for this squad the pass sets up the run, not the other way around

Agree

But I'm still of the opinion we need to be more effective with our runs. Whether it's scheme, timing of the play calling, how the Oline is blocking or whatever. It dang sure doesn't hurt anything to rip off some effective runs from time to time.

(10-26-2022, 07:54 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hey look!  It's one of those analytics guys, and it seems like he's got a chip on his shoulder..  

It just doesn't make sense to run when....

I'm just kidding. I've beat this damn topic to death. I'll leave it alone. It would be nice to see the Bengals be able to convert 3rd/4th & short more often, especially in 4th down situations. Being aggressive on 4th can & will win more games, but when your run game is this damn bad, it is hard. There has at least been some improvement with gap being called more, but there were also plenty of gap runs called early on in the season. Against Atlanta, Cincinnati ran primarily gap and the run game was awful still.

I just think we are in for another season of the run game being terrible. The team goes where Burrow takes them, and that's doubly true for this season. 

(10-26-2022, 04:20 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Aka, the old Houston Oilers...

The team that relinquished a 32 point third quarter lead in Buffalo.  Maybe a good running game would have helped that day.