(11-07-2022, 12:18 PM)LebanonFan Wrote: Mixon looked like he was running harder and more decisively.  He looked like he was shot out of a cannon on some plays.  Really, the jet sweeps looked like that too…like the play had already gained yardage before it could even be diagnosed.  Not sure that can happen every week, but it looked well planned.  Also plenty of Stanley Morgan blocks on the edge to spring 5 yard gains to 8-12 yards

That's what I was gonna say. Only many runs it seemed he was hitting the hole with a head of steam instead of doing the dancing.

And I agree with Brad somewhat. Us being have to have some productive runs will benefit the offense a lot !

(11-07-2022, 02:17 PM)J24 Wrote: According  to Paul Dehner the Panthers were #1 in run defense DOVA coming into the game. 

Ok.
That may be true, but what I posted is also true.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2022.htm

(11-07-2022, 12:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The OL was displaying great precision in execution and delivering crushing blocks like their asses were on fire.  Oh, and Joe Mixon finally decided to show up for work one day..

On a couple of those runs I was like   who is this guy and what did they do with Joe Mixon ?

And yes I believe for this offense to truly flourish we have to continue getting better at running the ball. It's not about smash mouth football. We're going to live or die with Joe Burrow slinging it... BUT


It's going to make everything come together if we can have a few productive runs every game.

Burrow play will always be thr biggest priority for the team. With that being it would be nice if we can get Mixon Rollin in the running and passing game. Like he did yesterday.

(11-07-2022, 02:24 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ok.
That may be true, but what I posted is also true.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2022.htm

Using total yards isn’t very informative, though. Yes, the Panthers have allowed the 28th most yards because they have faced a lot of rushing attempts…because they are often losing. They were 7th in yards per carry allowed going into yesterday. They weren’t/aren’t a bad rushing defense.

(11-07-2022, 02:24 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ok.
That may be true, but what I posted is also true.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2022.htm

Thought the DVOA was an interesting point brought up by Paul last night. Honestly that was a stat that surprised living  hell out of me.

(11-07-2022, 02:32 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Using total yards isn’t very informative, though. Yes, the Panthers have allowed the 28th most yards because they have faced a lot of rushing attempts…because they are often losing. They were 7th in yards per carry allowed going into yesterday. They weren’t/aren’t a bad rushing defense.

I understand that, but it's not like they've been a brick wall every game aside from Bengals.
Teams are finding ways to run on them, even if they were Top 10 in YPC.

(11-07-2022, 02:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I understand that, but it's not like they've been a brick wall every game aside from Bengals.
Teams are finding ways to run on them, even if they were Top 10 in YPC.

Well, yes and no. The problem with using the standard ranking is that it is a volume stat. Teams run often on the Panthers, but they haven't ran well on the Panthers. The Panthers have given up a lot of yards because they have faced a lot of attempts. Teams generally don't run that well on them, though. The ways that they are finding is just to run often because the Panthers are often down, so clock is being killed. 

It's a bit like me telling you that Mahomes threw for over 400 yards last night. Does that tell you how well he played? No, not really. It took him 72 dropbacks to get there. He didn't play very well at all, but he threw for a lot of yards...because the threw the ball a lot. 

(11-07-2022, 12:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The OL was displaying great precision in execution and delivering crushing blocks like their asses were on fire.  Oh, and Joe Mixon finally decided to show up for work one day..

Because unlike at Cleveland and some other games in 2021,  Zac Taylor called some hand offs for a change.  The Blockers can NOT Fire Off if every play is Red Rover dancing backwards Pass Blocking.  THE RUN let them Fire Off and PANCAKE people.    Mixon and Perine can NOT rush for Yards if Zac never calls RUNNING PLAYS.   and Joe Burrow is the most Sacked QB in the NFL and Bengals don't have TIME to PASS if Zac calls THE PASS every play. 

The answer is NOT to run Mixon every play, nor is the answer to have Burrow pass every play.  To WIN in the AFC NORTH you need a 50 / 50 mix of Run and Pass.   At the end of the game there should be about as many runs as there were passes, and THAT is how you WIN in the AFC NORTH, and THAT is how Bengals WON yesterday against Carolina.  Much Better than 6 days earlier against Cleveland when Zac Taylor went Arena League or Madden Video Game and called Pass just about every play, and Cleveland kicked Bengals butts hard for it. 

The Monday Night Game Announcers didn't understand Zac Game Plan.   The Sunday game announcers said they questioned Zac about his All Pass Game Plan that didn't work.  The Announcers raved about Zac actually calling Hand Offs against Panthers and how THIS is how you get THE MOST out of an O LINE and Runners and Receivers and Burrow.  You MIX IN THE RUN WITH THE PASS.  

So there is room on this team for both Joe's, and the Run sets up the pass and the pass sets up the run.   There were good Runs also by Perine and some nice WR End Runs.  Also Zac called some Lombardi like pulling guard POWER SWEEPS sealing off Defense to Right and Left to create a seal and a Running Lane.   But it was NOT all Run either.  The RUN gave Burrow time to hit Higgins and Boyd and Hurst and Others. 

To WIN going forward, the Bengals can NOT be ONE DIMENSIONAL.  They need to use ALL their weapons on Offense,  not just Pass, Pass, Pass. not just Run, Run, Run.   There is NO REASON for AFC CHAMP Bengals to be ONE DIMENSIONAL.  They have the Runners and The Passing Game to MIX IT UP and THAT will keep Defenses OFF BALANCE, unable to just line up to Sack Burrow every play.   Some teams HAVE to be ONE DIMENSIONAL.  The AFC CHAMP BENGALS have the team to Run and Pass and ATTACK DEFENSES from ALL DIRECTIONS and THAT is how BENGALS can still Make PLAY-OFFS.  THAT is how you WIN in the AFC NORTH.  This is not Touch Football West Coast Surf and Turf, this is the frozen tundra of The AFC NORTH going into Winter, and to WIN in The NORTH, you must RUN AND PASS of EQUAL AMOUNTS. 

Now if I was playing Madden Video, I would pass every play because the game is designed that way. But The AFC NORTH is more HARD NOSED and MORE SMASH MOUTH HARD HITTING than Madden Video. So Pass every play does NOT work in real life of AFC North, nor would Run every play. Coaches from Paul Brown to Chuck Noll discovered the AFC NORTH weather and teams demand that to WIN you must RUN and PASS of Equal Amounts.

GO BENGALS

(11-07-2022, 04:30 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Well, yes and no. The problem with using the standard ranking is that it is a volume stat. Teams run often on the Panthers, but they haven't ran well on the Panthers. The Panthers have given up a lot of yards because they have faced a lot of attempts. Teams generally don't run that well on them, though. The ways that they are finding is just to run often because the Panthers are often down, so clock is being killed. 

It's a bit like me telling you that Mahomes threw for over 400 yards last night. Does that tell you how well he played? No, not really. It took him 72 dropbacks to get there. He didn't play very well at all, but he threw for a lot of yards...because the threw the ball a lot. 

I understand what it means.
You don't need to explain that to me.

But teams are still running on the Panthers a lot and getting a good amount of yards.
It might not be one of the highest YPC, but it's still a lot.

And that's ultimately what matters, at least in my opinion.

(11-07-2022, 06:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I understand what it means.
You don't need to explain that to me.

Quote:But teams are still running on the Panthers a lot and getting a good amount of yards.

It might not be one of the highest YPC, but it's still a lot.

Well, no, you don't really seem like you are grasping this very well and I know you are smart enough to understand it. We'll just agree to disagree so we can move on. 

(11-07-2022, 02:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I understand that, but it's not like they've been a brick wall every game aside from Bengals.
Teams are finding ways to run on them, even if they were Top 10 in YPC.

Volume is the great liar.

(11-07-2022, 04:46 PM)kevin Wrote: Because unlike at Cleveland and some other games in 2021,  Zac Taylor called some hand offs for a change.  The Blockers can NOT Fire Off if every play is Red Rover dancing backwards Pass Blocking.  THE RUN let them Fire Off and PANCAKE people.    Mixon and Perine can NOT rush for Yards if Zac never calls RUNNING PLAYS.   and Joe Burrow is the most Sacked QB in the NFL and Bengals don't have TIME to PASS if Zac calls THE PASS every play. 

The answer is NOT to run Mixon every play, nor is the answer to have Burrow pass every play.  To WIN in the AFC NORTH you need a 50 / 50 mix of Run and Pass.   At the end of the game there should be about as many runs as there were passes, and THAT is how you WIN in the AFC NORTH, and THAT is how Bengals WON yesterday against Carolina.  Much Better than 6 days earlier against Cleveland when Zac Taylor went Arena League or Madden Video Game and called Pass just about every play, and Cleveland kicked Bengals butts hard for it. 

The Monday Night Game Announcers didn't understand Zac Game Plan.   The Sunday game announcers said they questioned Zac about his All Pass Game Plan that didn't work.  The Announcers raved about Zac actually calling Hand Offs against Panthers and how THIS is how you get THE MOST out of an O LINE and Runners and Receivers and Burrow.  You MIX IN THE RUN WITH THE PASS.  

So there is room on this team for both Joe's, and the Run sets up the pass and the pass sets up the run.   There were good Runs also by Perine and some nice WR End Runs.  Also Zac called some Lombardi like pulling guard POWER SWEEPS sealing off Defense to Right and Left to create a seal and a Running Lane.   But it was NOT all Run either.  The RUN gave Burrow time to hit Higgins and Boyd and Hurst and Others. 

To WIN going forward, the Bengals can NOT be ONE DIMENSIONAL.  They need to use ALL their weapons on Offense,  not just Pass, Pass, Pass. not just Run, Run, Run.   There is NO REASON for AFC CHAMP Bengals to be ONE DIMENSIONAL.  They have the Runners and The Passing Game to MIX IT UP and THAT will keep Defenses OFF BALANCE, unable to just line up to Sack Burrow every play.   Some teams HAVE to be ONE DIMENSIONAL.  The AFC CHAMP BENGALS have the team to Run and Pass and ATTACK DEFENSES from ALL DIRECTIONS and THAT is how BENGALS can still Make PLAY-OFFS.  THAT is how you WIN in the AFC NORTH.  This is not Touch Football West Coast Surf and Turf, this is the frozen tundra of The AFC NORTH going into Winter, and to WIN in The NORTH, you must RUN AND PASS of EQUAL AMOUNTS. 

Now if I was playing Madden Video, I would pass every play because the game is designed that way.  But The AFC NORTH is more HARD NOSED and MORE SMASH MOUTH HARD HITTING than Madden Video. So Pass every play does NOT work in real life of AFC North, nor would Run every play.   Coaches from Paul Brown to Chuck Noll discovered the AFC NORTH weather and teams demand that to WIN you must RUN and PASS of Equal Amounts.

GO BENGALS

Stop it, Kevin.

(11-07-2022, 12:18 PM)LebanonFan Wrote: Mixon looked like he was running harder and more decisively.  He looked like he was shot out of a cannon on some plays.  Really, the jet sweeps looked like that too…like the play had already gained yardage before it could even be diagnosed.  Not sure that can happen every week, but it looked well planned.  Also plenty of Stanley Morgan blocks on the edge to spring 5 yard gains to 8-12 yards

Yeah and hopefully we see that version of Mixon for the rest of the year because he sees that he runs better that way.

That's why I always wanted Burrow under center- because Mixon looked like he hit the line faster and harder when he started towards the line at the snap when Burrow was under center (and even hit the hole faster when it was a slightly delayed handoff with Burrow under center).

Like I said, if we see that version of Mixon for the rest of the year, we'll be tough to stop.

(11-07-2022, 12:21 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Maybe Mixon has been tentative because there’s been no room to run. He’s bad about that but the blocking hasn’t been good. It’s been awful. Maybe they came together but the OL hasn’t come close to this previously

I think Mixon hitting the holes faster also helped the line but, yes, I did like the way they played.

Sometimes, it was like a few of them just stayed shoulder-to-shoulder and slanted one way, which then Mixon cut-back off opposite of where they were slanting and the defenders' momentum took them out of the play.

(11-07-2022, 01:10 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think showing to have at least the ability to run the ball is the key to success.

Should we pound the rock 30 plus times a game? No. Do we need to show we CAN run the ball to take advantage and get teams out of these two high shells? Yes.

That will be even HUGE and even more beneficial when Chase comes back because it will be defensive coordinators picking the way they want us to beat them.

Hell, we don't NEED to pound it 30x a game, but, if it's working, why there hell not? Like I said, Mixon didn't carry in the 4th and still had that many carries. Moving the chains is what's important and a run game is very important to that, especially when our pass defense isn't too good. 

(11-07-2022, 01:22 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: The key to success is the offensive line. If they play at a high level, the offense will play at a higher level because Burrow should be more effective. Mixon shedding tackles and making good cuts is a part of that.

I agree.

Mixon running north/south is key because he naturally sheds tackles and makes cuts off of instincts.

I PRAY that Zac sees all this and sticks with it because sometimes it's like he tries too hard and gets too complicated.

The AFCN is a power division, especially when it gets colder.

(11-07-2022, 01:43 PM)Go Cards Wrote: This ^^^^^^^^^^

Mixon ran much more decisively and even looked faster yesterday and hope this Joe is what Bengals get the rest of the season.

But overlooked is how well the O-line played and Zac overriding Joe's preference to always be in the shotgun by mixing it up with runs out of both and keeping the defense guessing. 

Liked the change of pace in the passing game with Burrow looking like Brady in his prime by getting the ball out quickly and on target as well. 

Heck the ST's looked awesome as well except we need Evan to regain his confidence. 

But yes, everybody looked like different players yesterday including Mixon, nice to see.

I think Joe will go with whatever works and hopefully Zac points out in films today how much better we were under center and Burrow goes with it.

Play action will also be a lot better with a good run game.

(11-07-2022, 01:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: He was hitting holes like he had something to prove.  I haven't seen him playing that hard in quite some time.  I wonder if someone called him out on effort?

No clue but, whatever it was, I'm glad that it happened!

I loved the sideline shots of him showing that spin move to Burrow and just loving playing because you know him enjoying the game will keep him running hard and will let him have a better second half of the season!

(11-07-2022, 01:44 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Well said, Brad.

It is definitely exciting given that Carolina is actually (statistically) a really good run defense team.  Frustrating as hell they couldn't get that together the previous week against the Browns, but I am very encouraged with how the line blocked and how both RBs were punishing tacklers.  That looked like an angry Mixon and Perine and I will take that.

Burrow's quote is eerily similar to the one last year he said on the sidelines before the first Baltimore game.  He said something to the effect of "If we can win our division, we can win the whole thing...".  And I remember seeing Higgins nodding like "Yeah, you're probably right".  Well, if they can have that kind of run blocking and rushing attack, along with getting Chase back, they just might go on another late season run.

Sure, I wish they had Chido, but I thought CTB stepped up and played really well.  He got downgraded on PFF for a penalty that he didn't need to commit (even though it was really ticky-tack) and the amazing TD grab by Marshall.  He was in place to defend it and tried to rip it out, but the bigger Marshall boxed him out and made the play.  That happens.  He was really solid in run defense, and if you think how that will matter down the stretch playing the Browns again, the steelers, the ratbirds, as well as teams like Tennessee and the Bucs, that could be a nice boost.  

Run defense is often overlooked for a CB, but CTB is a very tough and solid tackler.  He will need to be against the steelers.  

I think one of the things that worked, and I hope that Zac noticed it, was getting the line going in one direction and, even if they're not blowing them back, since the d-linemen are all going in one direction, there was nothing they could do when Mixon cuts back and then he's in the secondary/open field, and he's tough to tackle (or even get hands on) out there.

It sounds Burrow isn't going to be the Palmer-type that wanted to throw no matter what and realizes that his game will be a lot better with Mixon eating!

(11-07-2022, 01:47 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Heck if the Bengals did not need to get healthy ? Would rather to keep playing and ride this momentum for a few more games.

Yet we need to get healthy and have no choice in the matter. Hopefully they're just as hungry and much more healthier when they emerge from the Bye.

I'm glad that we have a bye this late and that we got this convincing of a win going into it because the players have two weeks to be on mental highs and work even harder in practice and the weight room because they're anxious to get back at it.

We'll need that momentum and health going into Pittsburgh, which is always a tough place for us to win, regardless of records, and then a win in Pitt will give us even more momentum because this end stretch of games is a rough one.

(11-07-2022, 01:48 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: True, and he didn't get to run the unbalanced line at the end of the Jets game like Perine did.  I was glad to see some of that, and as I alluded to in another post, they actually threw the ball once from the unbalanced line.  Great trend breaker.  

But you are correct.  It was a running GAME and not just a couple plays to give Joe a carry here and there.  They had purpose and punched Carolina in the mouth.  I would LOVE to see that kind of tenacity against pitt in two weeks on National TV. 

We need to come out and punch every team in the mouth!

(11-07-2022, 01:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Panthers have the 28th ranked rushing defense.
They have allowed over 100 rushing yards in all but 2 games this season. Over 150 yards on the ground 4 times including the Bengals game.
Mixon did rush for 6.95 YPC, but that's been the highest of the season by over 1 YPC. He's rushed for under 4.0 in all but 3 games including yesterday's game.

So did Mixon run great? Absolutely.
But this is probably going to be the high mark this season, and he'll come back to earth (3.5-4.0) for most of the remaining games.

Not trying to be a hater, just realistic.

They were 7th in terms of YPC, which is most important.

(11-07-2022, 02:17 PM)J24 Wrote: According  to Paul Dehner the Panthers were #1 in run defense DOVA coming into the game. 

It was definitely an impressive performance by our offense!

(11-07-2022, 02:32 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Using total yards isn’t very informative, though. Yes, the Panthers have allowed the 28th most yards because they have faced a lot of rushing attempts…because they are often losing. They were 7th in yards per carry allowed going into yesterday. They weren’t/aren’t a bad rushing defense.

Exactly.

It was a solid performance by our run offense and by Pollack because a lot of those blocking schemes were perfect/

(11-07-2022, 04:30 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Well, yes and no. The problem with using the standard ranking is that it is a volume stat. Teams run often on the Panthers, but they haven't ran well on the Panthers. The Panthers have given up a lot of yards because they have faced a lot of attempts. Teams generally don't run that well on them, though. The ways that they are finding is just to run often because the Panthers are often down, so clock is being killed. 

It's a bit like me telling you that Mahomes threw for over 400 yards last night. Does that tell you how well he played? No, not really. It took him 72 dropbacks to get there. He didn't play very well at all, but he threw for a lot of yards...because the threw the ball a lot. 

That's why I was impressed with yesterday.

I hope we keep it going!

(11-07-2022, 06:47 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Well, no, you don't really seem like you are grasping this very well and I know you are smart enough to understand it. We'll just agree to disagree so we can move on. 

(11-07-2022, 07:06 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Volume is the great liar.

My opinion is that it doesn't necessarily matter if you're allowing a good YPC, because if you're still allowing a lot of yards, your run defense isn't ultimately effective. I know that teams are getting up on them early and thus running more on them compared to other teams.

I know not everyone agrees with that and they put more value on YPC, but that is how I feel.

(11-07-2022, 02:31 PM)J24 Wrote: Burrow play will always be thr biggest priority for the team. With that being it would be nice if we can get Mixon Rollin in the running and passing game. Like he did yesterday.

To me the priority is winning, if it means we need to adjust our game plan or overcome areas of weaknesses like pass blocking so be it.. I also believe we can get more WRs open with a better running game, teams will have to adjust especially two high safety look which will help Burrow 

(11-07-2022, 11:58 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Mixon had 22 carries for 157 yards and four touchdowns, and that was with not even playing in the fourth quarter!

I've been preaching all along that running Mixon is the key to victory, and I think yesterday proved it, and I hope Zac took notice, because I know Burow did, saying we run the ball like that, not a team in the league that can beat us.

I realize that the Panthers don't have the best run defense in the league, but just giving Mixon the ball with a little space and letting him find his spots seemed to be working.

I've been saying that we need to give Mixon the ball with Burrow under center because I think Mixon runs better downhill, but I can only remember one time that we gave Mixon the ball with Burrow under center (besides maybe near the goal line), and Mixon was carving up their defense! I miscalculated that their linebackers still need to commit to the run even if we're not giving the ball running straight north/south from the snap.

Running the ball will also take pressure off Burrow since defenses won't be able to just pin their ears back and go after Burrow, which giving up a hundred sacks already shows that that's obviously a big problem.

Having Chase back eventually will also make our run game that much better because a safety has to stay back to double him.

Like I said in the other Mixon thread................

LET THE BIG DOG EAT!

Sure hope we see this Mixon the rest of the season but still need to give Perine the ball too. Mixon was seeing holes 
yesterday and hitting them with conviction, not something I was seeing much this season until now. We run the ball 
like that and we will be hard to beat that is for sure just like Burrow says, maybe nobody can beat us.

Loved watching the OL pin and pull like that it in the run game the entire OL was good yesterday, even Jonah.

(11-07-2022, 07:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Stop it, Kevin.

NO.  It's stop IT, Kevin.  THAT is how YOU do IT!

(11-07-2022, 12:18 PM)LebanonFan Wrote: Mixon looked like he was running harder and more decisively.  He looked like he was shot out of a cannon on some plays.  Really, the jet sweeps looked like that too…like the play had already gained yardage before it could even be diagnosed.  Not sure that can happen every week, but it looked well planned.  Also plenty of Stanley Morgan blocks on the edge to spring 5 yard gains to 8-12 yards

He had over 100 yards before being touched, which is very unlike Mixon stats. Those are Chubb type stats.