(12-01-2022, 12:35 AM)Dill Wrote: You referring to the Champions League? '97 maybe? 

No euro 96, 6 years old the first tournament I remember and as usual ze Germans won on penalties against England.

(12-01-2022, 12:40 AM)BengalsLUFC Wrote: No euro 96, 6 years old the first tournament I remember and as usual ze Germans won on penalties against England.

Ok Shearer was playing then. One of the greats.

Well, England and Germany are through. Maybe they'll meet again!

(12-01-2022, 12:48 AM)Dill Wrote: Ok Shearer was playing then. One of the greats.

Well, England and Germany are through. Maybe they'll meet again!

Germany are far from through, currently bottom of their group with 1 point if Span and Japan draw then Germany have to win by 2 clear goals against a tough Costa Rica otherwise it’s auf wiedersehen..

(12-01-2022, 12:55 AM)BengalsLUFC Wrote: Germany are far from through, currently bottom of their group with 1 point if Span and Japan draw then Germany have to win by 2 clear goals against a tough Costa Rica otherwise it’s auf wiedersehen..

Yeah, you're right. I was just assuming they would beat Costa Rica. 

Lots of surprises this World Cup, not least in group E. Japan and CR will go through, if they win the next game,
sending BOTH Spain and Germany home. 

But I'm pretty sure Germany will beat Costa Rica and Spain will beat Japan.
That will fix the goal differential. 

Then we can look forward to the possibility of a Germany/England match.

(12-01-2022, 12:26 AM)Dill Wrote: LOL I still deal with Germans too occasionally, though mostly by phone.

I never paid attention to soccer my entire life until 1990. I was house sitting for a friend in Bann (a little Dorf outside Landstuhl) during the WC, and with not much to do, started following the then WEST German team--Klinsmann, Voeller, Matthaeus, Bodo, all led to their 3rd world championship by "Der Kaiser." That was the year Gullit spit in Voeller's hair during the Holland game. 

Nope, that was Rijkaard. Don't try to outnerd the soccer nerd.

Besides, that is part of my problem. These names. Franz Beckenbauer, yeah a Kaiser alright, a guy that in the committee for the German WC got millions of dollars and presents and whatnot for existing, that said that there are no work slaves in Qatar, for he was there, and he saw everyone running around free... a scumbag, and someone who usually said a lot of nonsense and stupid stuff, but whatever. Most Germans apparently just love the guy no matter what he does; this blind loyalty, I find it unbearable. Lothar Matthäus is the definition of douche, exposing his private life with everchanging women, talking nonsense on TV... but there he actually is when I turn my TV on, this cross-breed of Anthony Scaramucchi and Ryan Lochte, unfortunately always being himself and offending my intellect with his stupidity. Well, I guess Völler is ok. And they sure all knew how to kick a ball. But aside from that, eek.
And if you hadn't put your little Austrian tease at the end, I would have spared you with my ruining your memories, which I'm sure I didn't achieve anyway.

Oh and btw. this 90 WC was the last time Austria won a game there. 2-1 against the US. And it would probably end the same way today, but we're not invited yet again. The allotment formula disadvantages Europe.

(12-01-2022, 12:26 AM)Dill Wrote: Even in that little village I could hear the screams and roars every time the world champs scored. What a frenzy everywhere. After that I started following some of the German teams--Borussia Dortmund and the local SV Waldorf 07, which played in the Ludwigshafen stadium. I've continued following the National team since then. 

Ah, Dortmund. Sure, that fits. The Steelers of the Bundesliga, and even the eye-violating bumblebee colors match. As does the living in past glory, the wasting of talent, the whole attitude, the arrogance, the ensuing disappointment. You should send terrible towles there so they can cry their rivers into them, also a terrible towel just fits a terrible team. Oh my, these towels, that actually make the stupid cheeseheads look good. I have to stop myself.

Oh btw. not a Dortmund fan, as much as I hid that fact. But to each their own.

(12-01-2022, 12:26 AM)Dill Wrote: So sad that little Austria will never experience that national thrill. But you could pass for German, right? Muenchner maybe? 

Yeah, yeah. Only our worst actually can. Aside from that, say against us what you will, but at least if our former sports idols turn out to be idiots we recognize it. We don't blindly worship them and don't make them senators.

(11-30-2022, 11:14 PM)hollodero Wrote: Are US-Americans actually rooting for other Concacaf teams? If so, I find that to be strange. Like rooting for the Steelers when the Bengals are out (or the other way round, of course), which hardly anyone would do, certainly not me.

I for one seldomly root for the European teams.

Well, if I wasn't reminded by almost every European that I talk Footy Mundo with that it's cute that we like our team but we're really not that good or our region is weak or we'd never qualify as often out of Europe so quit thinking that we're good, I probably wouldn't root for the Konka Cafe' teams. But, since that almost never happens, yes I root for teams from CONCACAF, who Roger Bennett so expertly called "The Footballing equivalent to a Star Wars bar".

My personal opinion? The USA has had a good first team for over 20 years now but the rest of the world HATES that it's happened so they refuse to openly accept it. They've gotten out of the group stage four of their last five World Cups, four out of the last six if you count missing in 2018, which was a blessing in disguise. We wouldn't have the 2nd youngest team at this WC if they didn't throw out the old guard after that disaster.

But my biggest fear is that we've plateaued and we'll be like Mexico the last 30 years before failing to get out of the group yesterday. "Yeah, you're good enough to get out of the group but that's it." The growth of MLS is crucial to breaking that cycle. It's far from a retirement league . . . it's a feeder league full of young players and has been for about 10-12 years now. You need to be fit to play in MLS, ask any Designated Player(big contract). This league plays through the Summer heat with three teams in Texas, two in Florida and three in California. 

(11-30-2022, 11:25 PM)hollodero Wrote: Oh I see, I apparently misread your emoticon. I might have internet alexithymia.

Rooting for Germany though? OK I get there's a personal connection, but think about myself for a second there. I have to actually deal with Germans, so I am the one that would have to bear the insufferable German world champion talking points again. Four years of we rock the world and we're the greatest, it's not funny.


PS oh and the concacaf region probably gets one spot too many.

Yeah, I could see how that would be irritating.

As far as CONCACAF getting one spot too many . . . 2002 World Cup, the one you disliked the most, they had three spots. After the USA surprised Portugal 3-2 by just going after them from the start, Mexico won their group over Italy and Costa Rica just needed a draw against Brazil to advance. Everybody in the world knew that Costa Rica was going to park the bus and just bunker in . . . but instead, right from the first whistle it was one of the most end to end matches in World Cup history with Brazil winning 5-2. Costa Rica missed two uncontested headers right in front of goal and hit the bar a couple of times. The press was abuzz about the exciting back and forth match and Sepp Blatter said afterwards something along the lines of "We should reward the regions that play attacking football instead of having so many teams with one lone striker and five defenders."

Here's highlights of the match
Brazil 5-2 Costa Rica

And that is how CONCACAF earned 3.5 spots in the World Cup 20 years ago. Remember, 2002 was only the 2nd 32 team World Cup, so they were still finding out the depth to the lesser confederations. I think that they got it right with the 3.5 spots.

(12-01-2022, 06:49 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: My personal opinion? The USA has had a good first team for over 20 years now but the rest of the world HATES that it's happened so they refuse to openly accept it.

I wanted to protest that, but after further consideration, there might be something to that. It's admittedly nice to see the powerful US of A be mediocre in something for a change, like in soccer. In other sports Americans usually are less courteous. Like in skiing, something only Austrians take seriously probably. All of a sudden an American like Bode Miller comes along.... being like what is it you do here, a slalom you call that? Alright, guess I will just become better than everyone else in that. And what is that, downhill? OK, guess I can do that better as anyone too. And oh, women do this skiing thing too? OK, let's create gals like Lindsey Vonn or Julia Mancuso and let them be superior. Ah, and we also make them more gorgeous than anyone else for good measure. Yah, that's annoying, and there's indeed a part of me that wishes that at least when it comes to soccer things don't turn out that way.

And in soccer, yeah, you're still not that good. As you said, good enough to make it past the group stage, but that's it.

(12-01-2022, 06:49 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: The growth of MLS is crucial to breaking that cycle. It's far from a retirement league . . . it's a feeder league full of young players and has been for about 10-12 years now. You need to be fit to play in MLS, ask any Designated Player(big contract).

Yeah, not merely a retirement league for sure. Then again, it's still not a magnet for world-class players. Hardly anyone that can play in one of Europe's top leagues would change to the MLS instead. And the same goes for young international players. If they have an offer from a decent European club, they won't join the MLS. Imho the league still suffers from a lack of overall quality.

(12-01-2022, 06:49 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: As far as CONCACAF getting one spot too many . . . 2002 World Cup, the one you disliked the most, they had three spots. After the USA surprised Portugal 3-2 by just going after them from the start, Mexico won their group over Italy and Costa Rica just needed a draw against Brazil to advance. Everybody in the world knew that Costa Rica was going to park the bus and just bunker in . . . but instead, right from the first whistle it was one of the most end to end matches in World Cup history with Brazil winning 5-2. Costa Rica missed two uncontested headers right in front of goal and hit the bar a couple of times. The press was abuzz about the exciting back and forth match and Sepp Blatter said afterwards something along the lines of "We should reward the regions that play attacking football instead of having so many teams with one lone striker and five defenders."

Here's highlights of the match
Brazil 5-2 Costa Rica

And that is how CONCACAF earned 3.5 spots in the World Cup 20 years ago. Remember, 2002 was only the 2nd 32 team World Cup, so they were still finding out the depth to the lesser confederations. I think that they got it right with the 3.5 spots.

I am in no way questioning that the US and Mexico are worthy WC participants. But behind those two, the cliff is steep. All those third and fourth teams like Costa Rica or Honduras or Trinidad or Jamaica or whatever team I forgot now.... they usually were nice underdogs to root for, but usually stood no real chance. There might be an exception or two that I might not think about here, but in general, bottom teams. I am pretty confident there are around 10 European teams that are not participating at this WC and are distinctly stronger than Costa Rica is. That's not meant to be presumptuous, it's just what I consider true, past and present.
Your 2002 Costa Rica example is duely noted, but then again, it's also an example of a team that in the end lost distinctly. That it was an action-packed game imho doesn't factor into it. This is a competition, not an exhibition. And Sepp Blatter seeing it differently usually does not motivate me to rethink things. That guy also suggested to give women tighter clothing to make women's soccer more attractive.

That being said, it's also other regions, Africa and Asia, that probably often had one spot too many. I do however understand the goal of bringing soccer to the world instead of narrowing it down to teams from mostly just two continents. I'd probably say 3 spots is fine for concacaf, but the additional 0,5 spots imho are uncalled for.

(12-01-2022, 07:59 AM)hollodero Wrote: I wanted to protest that, but after further consideration, there might be something to that. It's admittedly nice to see the powerful US of A be mediocre in something for a change, like in soccer. In other sports Americans usually are less courteous. Like in skiing, something only Austrians take seriously probably. All of a sudden an American like Bode Miller comes along.... being like what is it you do here, a slalom you call that? Alright, guess I will just become better than everyone else in that. And what is that, downhill? OK, guess I can do that better as anyone too. And oh, women do this skiing thing too? OK, let's create gals like Lindsey Vonn or Julia Mancuso and let them be superior. Ah, and we also make them more gorgeous than anyone else for good measure. Yah, that's annoying, and there's indeed a part of me that wishes that at least when it comes to soccer things don't turn out that way.

Bill Johnson
Tommy Moe
Hilary Lindh
Ski legends off the top of my head. Johnson was a champ only because he was insane and wasn't afraid of things like "too fast for this coming corner".

Quote:And in soccer, yeah, you're still not that good. As you said, good enough to make it past the group stage, but that's it.

So you admit that we earned our pre-tournament #16 ranking. Apology accepted.

Seriously, though. Before Qatar 2022, England has never scored nine goals in the group stage but they did this time. They were held scoreless by the USA and we weren't bunkering. If this was two European squads, I'm under the assumption that this would have been chalked off to "two quality sides canceling each other out", but since it's the USA, the search for excuses usually begins before admitting that.

Quote:Yeah, not merely a retirement league for sure. Then again, it's still not a magnet for world-class players. Hardly anyone that can play in one of Europe's top leagues would change to the MLS instead. And the same goes for young international players. If they have an offer from a decent European club, they won't join the MLS. Imho the league still suffers from a lack of overall quality.

Honestly . . . when was the last time you watched a 90 minute MLS match? I've seen Austrian teams in Champions League and Europa League, but I've never seen a random Austrian top flight match. MLS is not a magnet for world class players . . . at this time. The league has a vision for what they're aiming for and they're slowly plodding right along making minor but important changes along the way to insure that the clubs/franchises don't bankrupt themselves.

If you're a fan of the NFL and read up on the history, you probably stumbled across the American Football League in there somewhere. You may have heard of the name Lamar Hunt before. Many of the steps that he took as a leading partner/owner in starting the AFL, he completely duplicated in the same order as a partner/owner of MLS. I've often laughed when MLS fans read up on the AFL and freaked when the saw the same blueprint, just 35 years earlier.

One of the ideas was to get his AFL and MLS teams into their own stadiums that they owned so they could become profitable to compete. In 1999, Lamar Hunt built the first SSS (Soccer Specific Stadium) in the USA in Columbus. Before the Metrostars(Now New York Red Bulls) moved into Red Bull Arena, they were drawing around 17,000 per game in Giants stadium. The problem is, they needed to draw over 42,000 just to break even. For 14 seasons, they lost money on every single match except for like three or four. Part of the reason that it took so long to build the arena is because the people that ran Giants stadium paid off zoning offices, inspectors, unions and contractors to delay, delay, delay because it was such a money maker for them and as soon as the new stadium was built, they lost all of that sweet MLS rent money.

That's just one of the many barriers that MLS has had to overcome while trying to start a new league in a country that has already established four very large pro sports leagues, a huge college network of sports leagues, NASCAR, PGA and European Football teams hijacking our summers with pre-season friendlies. When I hear/read people's opinions about what they think MLS is and what it isn't and what they need to do, I just kind of shrug and say "From where they were . . . to where they are, I'm pretty confident that they're on the right track." 

At one point, after the contraction down to 10 teams, there were three owners owning 10 teams. NE Patriots owner Bob Kraft is still current owner of New England Revolution . . . KC Chiefs owner Lamar Hunt owned Columbus(sold), Dallas(sold) and of course Kansas City . . . Phillip Anschutz owned Metrostars(sold to Red Bulls), San Jose(relocated to Houston, sold to Oscar DeLaHoya), Chicago(sold), Colorado(sold to Rams owner Stan Kroenke), DC United(sold) and of course the LA Galaxy. Those three guys sat in a room and made a commitment to keep this league alive, despite losing millions every year. They had a plan and stayed the course. 19 expansion teams added in 19 seasons from 2005 into next season.

Quote:I am in no way questioning that the US and Mexico are worthy WC participants. But behind those two, the cliff is steep. All those third and fourth teams like Costa Rica or Honduras or Trinidad or Jamaica or whatever team I forgot now.... they usually were nice underdogs to root for, but usually stood no real chance. There might be an exception or two that I might not think about here, but in general, bottom teams. I am pretty confident there are around 10 European teams that are not participating at this WC and are distinctly stronger than Costa Rica is. That's not meant to be presumptuous, it's just what I consider true, past and present.

Your 2002 Costa Rica example is duely noted, but then again, it's also an example of a team that in the end lost distinctly. That it was an action-packed game imho doesn't factor into it. This is a competition, not an exhibition. And Sepp Blatter seeing it differently usually does not motivate me to rethink things. That guy also suggested to give women tighter clothing to make women's soccer more attractive.

That being said, it's also other regions, Africa and Asia, that probably often had one spot too many. I do however understand the goal of bringing soccer to the world instead of narrowing it down to teams from mostly just two continents. I'd probably say 3 spots is fine for concacaf, but the additional 0,5 spots imho are uncalled for.

So 55 teams in Europe for 13 spots
46 teams in Asia for 4.5 spots
54 teams in Africa for 5 spots
34 teams in CONCACAF for 3.5
10 teams in CONMEBOL for 4.5

Like it or not . . . the Finals are an exhibition. The World Cup begins regionally, no matter how tough it is, there's your chance. If lesser teams get placed further along due to a weaker confederation, they'll get weeded out early in the Finals. If you couldn't get past qualifying in Europe, you would have been weeded out early in the Finals anyway. Italy didn't get bumped out to a tough European side, they got knocked out by North Macedonia. They didn't deserve to go. If North Macedonia can knock off a former champ, so can underdogs from Africa or Asia. It will be rare, but it will happen. So far Asian teams have beaten Argentina, Germany, Wales and Australia has beaten Denmark and Tunisia. I find that shit exciting.

(12-01-2022, 05:02 AM)hollodero Wrote: Nope, that was Rijkaard. Don't try to outnerd the soccer nerd.

Besides, that is part of my problem. These names. Franz Beckenbauer, yeah a Kaiser alright, a guy that in the committee for the German WC got millions of dollars and presents and whatnot for existing, that said that there are no work slaves in Qatar, for he was there, and he saw everyone running around free... a scumbag, and someone who usually said a lot of nonsense and stupid stuff, but whatever. Most Germans apparently just love the guy no matter what he does; this blind loyalty, I find it unbearable. Lothar Matthäus is the definition of douche, exposing his private life with everchanging women, talking nonsense on TV... but there he actually is when I turn my TV on, this cross-breed of Anthony Scaramucchi and Ryan Lochte, unfortunately always being himself and offending my intellect with his stupidity. Well, I guess Völler is ok. And they sure all knew how to kick a ball. But aside from that, eek.
And if you hadn't put your little Austrian tease at the end, I would have spared you with my ruining your memories, which I'm sure I didn't achieve anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbb_lKd5mlo

Ok, you're right. Rijkaard.  All that German winning must have scrambled my memories somewhat. Just shows how unsportsmanlike other teams can be.
Anyway, I'm a long ways from a soccer nerd. You say Austria and the US were in the '90 cup too? Must have forgotten.

I heard some bad things about Matthaeus from German friends, sure. Private live stuff. But what a midfielder. 

And come on. You're ragging on Beckenbauer? He's before your time probably, but have you watched those old videos of his play? Delivered
two cups, one as player. Deserves blind loyalty.

Voeller is "ok"? You didn't say anything about Klinsmann. 

I haven't really followed BvB much over the last decade because it is so difficult to get Bundesliga stuff with our cable package.  I've only seen one game in the past two years. Like the Steelers, magnificent legacy, and I'm guessing their greatest glory years are still ahead. 

Voeller won the ECL with my club ! Don't talk bad about him !!!

***** get in bye bye deutschland

Wow, for a brief second there both Spain AND Germany were going to be out of the final 16.

That side of the bracket is looking rough. France, England, Spain and in all probability Portugal.

(12-01-2022, 01:19 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Voeller won the ECL with my club ! Don't talk bad about him !!!

No one did... I called him ok, which is as good as it gets and pretty much states he's my favorite German player from that era.

À jamais les premiers.

(12-01-2022, 12:41 PM)Dill Wrote: And come on. You're ragging on Beckenbauer? He's before your time probably, but have you watched those old videos of his play? Delivered
two cups, one as player. Deserves blind loyalty.

Really. Even when he's shown to be a corrupt FIFA lapdog. But he kicked the ball so wonderfully decades ago?
Nah, I cannot stand blind loyalty, especially when it's based on past athletic achievements. Herschel Walker was a great RB, wasnt he. Still makes him a horrible and dumb human being.

(12-01-2022, 12:41 PM)Dill Wrote: Voeller is "ok"? You didn't say anything about Klinsmann.

Well, Klinsi. What should I have said, how long should my answer have become. He apparently thought himself to be way smarter than he is, as coach had all these revolutionary concepts that did not work out, he was way over his head. But I thought Americans would know that all too well. Didn't want to salt this wound.

(12-01-2022, 12:41 PM)Dill Wrote: I haven't really followed BvB much over the last decade because it is so difficult to get Bundesliga stuff with our cable package.  I've only seen one game in the past two years.

Apparently you're not familiar with illegal streaming sites.
I can always send you links if you want...

(12-01-2022, 07:05 PM)hollodero Wrote: No one did... I called him ok, which is as good as it gets and pretty much states he's my favorite German player from that era.

À jamais les premiers.

It was more a joke than anything else.

(12-01-2022, 11:08 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Bill Johnson
Tommy Moe
Hilary Lindh
Ski legends off the top of my head. Johnson was a champ only because he was insane and wasn't afraid of things like "too fast for this coming corner".

Sure, I know I fabricated my point a bit. Ted Ligety, Picabo Street, great skiers too, regularly beating Austrians. Daron Rahlves. Phil Mahre. I am aware there were good US skiers at all time.

(12-01-2022, 11:08 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: So you admit that we earned our pre-tournament #16 ranking. Apology accepted.

Never!!!!

(12-01-2022, 11:08 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Honestly . . . when was the last time you watched a 90 minute MLS match? I've seen Austrian teams in Champions League and Europa League, but I've never seen a random Austrian top flight match. MLS is not a magnet for world class players . . . at this time. The league has a vision for what they're aiming for and they're slowly plodding right along making minor but important changes along the way to insure that the clubs/franchises don't bankrupt themselves.

Never saw more than maybe a handful of MLS games. Sure. My judgement is also based on team's market values and the fact that no decent young player from an European league goes there.
I'm not saying the league is doomed to be mediocre at all times. Maybe the direction is good, I read what you said about that, I can not disagree. But yeah, as of now I'd still be convinced that the Austrian champion beats the MLS champion.

(12-01-2022, 11:08 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Like it or not . . . the Finals are an exhibition. The World Cup begins regionally, no matter how tough it is, there's your chance. If lesser teams get placed further along due to a weaker confederation, they'll get weeded out early in the Finals. If you couldn't get past qualifying in Europe, you would have been weeded out early in the Finals anyway.

Not necessarily. Italy probably wins 9 out of 10 times against Macedonia. Upsets still happen.
I'm not necessarily argueing that Italy would have deserved it. I'm arguing that by current design, it's not the 32 best teams of the world that qualify. Maybe that is desired, and I can see why.

(12-01-2022, 07:37 PM)hollodero Wrote: Sure, I know I fabricated my point a bit. Ted Ligety, Picabo Street, great skiers too, regularly beating Austrians. Daron Rahlves. Phil Mahre. I am aware there were good US skiers at all time.

Loved watching the Mahre brothers, forgot about them. Complete opposite personalities of Bill Johnson.

I went skiing once. No thanks. Cured for life.

Quote:Never saw more than maybe a handful of MLS games. Sure. My judgement is also based on team's market values and the fact that no decent young player from an European league goes there.

This may come as a shock but we've gotten lots of European youth players on loans over the years. Man City bought New York City and have had lots of Man City youth league players get minutes on loan, but most weren't good enough to make an impact on the MLS first team. 

But young European players aren't part of their current model and not every South American wants to play to play in Europe first. Many have grown up dreaming of #1 living in America and #2 playing in Europe and see #1 and MLS as a doorway to #2. Many of those also like being a short flight or a long car ride away from home. Just living in a similar time zone helps a young player's mental health while living in a new country for the first time. So does having a large Hispanic community in pretty much every city that has an MLS team.

Quote:I'm not saying the league is doomed to be mediocre at all times. Maybe the direction is good, I read what you said about that, I can not disagree. But yeah, as of now I'd still be convinced that the Austrian champion beats the MLS champion.

They'd better. Right now, all they're really trying to compete with is the top teams in Mexican Liga MX, whose rosters are currently about 5 times more expensive than an MLS roster. I can tell you this though, I don't see any of your mid table or below teams waltzing through an MLS season. The heat and fitness levels send many Europeans back home pretty soon. Do you remember the Spanish forward Koke?
https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/spanish-forward-koke-set-leave-houston-dynamo
He claims he was not getting enough minutes . . . word got out later that he hated the Houston heat and couldn't adapt. He was told by a team mate that it was going to get hotter in the Summer and he bailed

“[Koke] met with Dominic [Kinnear] Saturday after the game and said he wants to leave because he’s unhappy with his situation,” Canetti said.


The request came as a surprise to the Dynamo front office as they were unaware of any issues with the striker.

“There was nothing that happened before Saturday that led us to believe there was an issue,” Canetti said. “We asked him to stay and give it more time, but he said he wants to return home immediately. Dom and I spoke and decided that we’ll oblige his request and let him go.”

Quote:Not necessarily. Italy probably wins 9 out of 10 times against Macedonia. Upsets still happen.

I'm not necessarily argueing that Italy would have deserved it. I'm arguing that by current design, it's not the 32 best teams of the world that qualify. Maybe that is desired, and I can see why.

Soccer fans all over the world tune into the Euro championship and Copa America because they like watching football played with passion at a high level.

Casual fans mostly tune in only because their nation is playing. You watch Austria play because you're Austrian and a self professed soccer nerd. The lady across the road doesn't give two shits about the Austrian Bundesliga, but she'll tune in to watch the Austrian national team because she's a proud Austrian. Same thing for those five WC nations and most of their neighbors in Asia, those five WC nations and most of their neighbors in Africa and that's a lot of eyes watching your corporate partners ads. It's an exhibition in the form of a tournament. Look at the format of the Canada/USA/Mexico World Cup in 2026. 48 teams starting with 16 knockout games for 32 teams to join the other 16. It's going to be a shit show.

One or two more inches and it's Germany and Spain going through. One of the most unlikely goals I've ever seen.

(12-02-2022, 03:47 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: One or two more inches and it's Germany and Spain going through. One of the most unlikely goals I've ever seen.

Yes. They don't play fair.

(12-01-2022, 07:17 PM)hollodero Wrote: Really. Even when he's shown to be a corrupt FIFA lapdog. But he kicked the ball so wonderfully decades ago?
Nah, I cannot stand blind loyalty, especially when it's based on past athletic achievements. Herschel Walker was a great RB, wasnt he. Still makes him a horrible and dumb human being.

Walker didn't lead his team to a superbowl victory as player and then then coach another one to victory.
A horrible dumb human could not do that. 

No comparison! 

(12-01-2022, 07:17 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, Klinsi. What should I have said, how long should my answer have become. He apparently thought himself to be way smarter than he is, as coach had all these revolutionary concepts that did not work out, he was way over his head. But I thought Americans would know that all too well. Didn't want to salt this wound.

Apparently you're not familiar with illegal streaming sites.
I can always send you links if you want...

Hmmm. Led Germany to 3rd place in the 2006 WC, was Concacaf Coach of the year in 2013. 

We're talking about JUERGEN Klinsman, right? The guy from Stuttgart, now a naturalized Ami living in CA?