(12-06-2022, 09:50 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I’ll ‘fess up: I wanted Zac Taylor gone from the middle of 2019 even into the beginning of 2021.  Except for good draft picks he didn’t show me anything and I’m not too proud to admit I was wrong.  However, it only hit me recently as to WHY I was wrong.

It’s the offensive line.  The change from zone blocking to gap blocking made the difference.

Philosophically, zone blocking is built upon the idea that every offensive lineman is responsible for an area rather than an individual defender.  That’s why we saw some Bengal linemen seemingly in blocking position with nobody to block.  In zone blocking steps are taken in unison which gives the play away early.  Also, each lineman must use the same technique.

Conversely, a gap blocking scheme is built around the principle that linemen will block down to use their leverage on a defender.  Steps are not taken in unison which makes the defense hesitate.  In gap, linemen are not obliged to use the same technique.  Ted Karras uses his leverage differently, say, than La’el Collins and in gap this is perfectly acceptable.

Sorry for the tangent; back to Zac.  His play calling appeared random and uninformed because his line, prior to the change to gap, could not sustain blocks in zone and Andy Dalton, Joe Mixon, and especially Joe Burrow paid the price.  

Remember this mnemonic: “The more the line stinks the more the playbook shrinks.”

Zac had, at the worst, maybe five plays he could call.  Even in 2021 the Bengals went to the Super Bowl with about ten plays in the offensive playbook — along with the occasional big play.  The offense was handcuffed by crap line play, period,

The Bengals first switched to gap blocking against the Saints in 2022.  That was the beginning of what has become an offensive explosion in Cincinnati and all of a sudden Zac “became” a good play caller almost overnight but the explanation is simple: The playbook is now wide open.  

Keep Zac.  Please.

All starts in trench success baby!

(12-06-2022, 09:51 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: All starts in trench success baby!

So much this. The playbook is finally open.

(12-06-2022, 08:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Throwing it to a wide open guy that nobody is paying attention to is not the same as having that same guy start carrying the ball 4 yards behind the LoS, behind the OL, with everyone paying attention to him.

That's kind of the point. If Dunlap does what everyone expects him to, then the play likely works. It was 4th and a foot and the Bengals had it blocked perfectly on the outside. If he gets by Dunlap and it's not a TD, it's at least a first down.

Literally, only one guy had a chance to stop him short of a first down and it took a play that very few would even be there to make. 

The line between everyone saying "what a fantastic call" and "holey shit, what a terrible call" is razor thin. 

If Joe B. does not make a perfect throw and Tee does not make a tough catch in traffic, good chance we lose by 1 if Mac makes a field goal putting us up by 6. But Mahommes would have had a ton of time to beat us if pass is incomplete.

Joe's audible did not work, If you look closely a QB sneak for inches would have easily worked. But, I will take Joe's mistakes. I will also take Zac's mistakes because he manages a game very well. he manages time outs. His teams the last 2 years have not been penalized a lot which can kill a team. He has coached 12 games in 2022, 1 game his team was blown out and that was by Cleveland.

But, for some Zac has a short leash, a loss and all the ZT sucks posts resurface their ugly head.

This is I how I judge a HC in any sport:
1. Is the team prepared?
2. Does the coach scheme to the player's strengths and try and hide their weaknesses?
3. Does the team have discipline. Bad coaches have players who commit too many mistakes and penalties?
4. Do the players respect and play hard for the HC?
5. Does the HC win more than their fair share of games based on the talent on the field each game?

This I know, BB was an average head coach winning until he inserted Brady as the starting QB for the Pats. The Browns fired him. In 2021 ZT won 13 games and lost 8 including 3 playoff wins. In 2022, ZT is 8-4 so far playing a 1st place schedule. So ZT is 21-12 his last 33 games. The year prior, he lost his starting rookie QB in the middle of the season and the team was decimated with injuries. In my opinion, ZT has improved depth, Chase was out and we went 3=1. Mixon is out still. We lost our best CB for the year and Reader also missed multiple games.

It is easy to Monday morning QB and blame the HC when something does not work. But in the end, if we win the HC and the coaching staff deserve credit. Our OL was awesome against the Chiefs, kudos to the OL, but also OL coach and Joe B. for managing sacks well.

This team has a chance to be special, but also a 8-4 Ravens team lost last 5 in 2021 to end 8-9. My point is we need some luck to stay healthy and we need to focus on 1 game at a time. On to Cleveland!!!!!!!!

(12-06-2022, 10:51 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If Joe B. does not make a perfect throw and Tee does not make a tough catch in traffic, good chance we lose by 1 if Mac makes a field goal putting us up by 6. But Mahommes would have had a ton of time to beat us if pass is incomplete.

Joe's audible did not work, If you look closely a QB sneak for inches would have easily worked. But, I will take Joe's mistakes. I will also take Zac's mistakes because he manages a game very well. he manages time outs. His teams the last 2 years have not been penalized a lot which can kill a team. He has coached 12 games in 2022, 1 game his team was blown out and that was by Cleveland.

But, for some Zac has a short leash, a loss and all the ZT sucks posts resurface their ugly head.

This is I how I judge a HC in any sport:
1. Is the team prepared?
2. Does the coach scheme to the player's strengths and try and hide their weaknesses?
3. Does the team have discipline. Bad coaches have players who commit too many mistakes and penalties?
4. Do the players respect and play hard for the HC?
5. Does the HC win more than their fair share of games based on the talent on the field each game?

This I know, BB was an average head coach winning until he inserted Brady as the starting QB for the Pats. The Browns fired him. In 2021 ZT won 13 games and lost 8 including 3 playoff wins. In 2022, ZT is 8-4 so far playing a 1st place schedule. So ZT is 21-12 his last 33 games. The year prior, he lost his starting rookie QB in the middle of the season and the team was decimated with injuries. In my opinion, ZT has improved depth, Chase was out and we went 3=1. Mixon is out still. We lost our best CB for the year and Reader also missed multiple games.

It is easy to Monday morning QB and blame the HC when something does not work. But in the end, if we win the HC and the coaching staff deserve credit. Our OL was awesome against the Chiefs, kudos to the OL, but also OL coach and Joe B. for managing sacks well.

This team has a chance to be special, but also a 8-4 Ravens team lost last 5 in 2021 to end 8-9. My point is we need some luck to stay healthy and we need to focus on 1 game at a time. On to Cleveland!!!!!!!!

Well said.

(12-06-2022, 06:44 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Taylor ran behind Burrow. Cappa dove straight ahead. The movement of the line is to make the dline "go where they go" so they were expecting 'los to crash and plug a hole in the middle, since the formation looked to be a run right into the line. Dunlap never hesitated. He was lunging stright ahead, even before Taylor got the ball. His only intention was to be beyond the LoS, not clogging it. It was simply great anticipation and a great play. 

"everyone who lines up in those postions go straight down..." -- Tony Romo after the play, describing what was expected. 

Good catch.  I was at work, so wasn't able to review... going totally off memory - which is obviously bad.   

(12-06-2022, 10:51 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If Joe B. does not make a perfect throw and Tee does not make a tough catch in traffic, good chance we lose by 1 if Mac makes a field goal putting us up by 6. But Mahommes would have had a ton of time to beat us if pass is incomplete.

Joe's audible did not work, If you look closely a QB sneak for inches would have easily worked. But, I will take Joe's mistakes. I will also take Zac's mistakes because he manages a game very well. he manages time outs. His teams the last 2 years have not been penalized a lot which can kill a team. He has coached 12 games in 2022, 1 game his team was blown out and that was by Cleveland.

But, for some Zac has a short leash, a loss and all the ZT sucks posts resurface their ugly head.

This is I how I judge a HC in any sport:
1. Is the team prepared?
2. Does the coach scheme to the player's strengths and try and hide their weaknesses?
3. Does the team have discipline. Bad coaches have players who commit too many mistakes and penalties?
4. Do the players respect and play hard for the HC?
5. Does the HC win more than their fair share of games based on the talent on the field each game?

This I know, BB was an average head coach winning until he inserted Brady as the starting QB for the Pats. The Browns fired him. In 2021 ZT won 13 games and lost 8 including 3 playoff wins. In 2022, ZT is 8-4 so far playing a 1st place schedule. So ZT is 21-12 his last 33 games. The year prior, he lost his starting rookie QB in the middle of the season and the team was decimated with injuries. In my opinion, ZT has improved depth, Chase was out and we went 3=1. Mixon is out still. We lost our best CB for the year and Reader also missed multiple games.

It is easy to Monday morning QB and blame the HC when something does not work. But in the end, if we win the HC and the coaching staff deserve credit. Our OL was awesome against the Chiefs, kudos to the OL, but also OL coach and Joe B. for managing sacks well.

This team has a chance to be special, but also a 8-4 Ravens team lost last 5 in 2021 to end 8-9. My point is we need some luck to stay healthy and we need to focus on 1 game at a time. On to Cleveland!!!!!!!!

Well I was one of the naysayers. Zac had a rough 2 years to start and then we had a special run last year. This year started a little more rough than many of us probably wanted myself included. Mix in the fact that some of that rough start had questionable coaching decisions and I was questioning Zac and if last year we were just lucky. 

But I was wrong. We have put together a championship roster. The oline is gelling the run game is getting going and Burrow and the WRs are doing what they do. Obscure players are stepping up and making game changing plays. How many of us were scratching our heads about keeping Trayveon on the 53. Yet even he has been put in position to make plays and to his and the coaches credit has shown why he was kept. Last year came out of nowhere from the defense being stout to the big plays. Then the playoff run to the superbowl just seemed so unreal and unexpected. But this team right now feels special it feels like we could be going back for another try. All the people that were questioning Zac (myself included ) know they were wrong and couldn't be happier about it. 

I also don't think they're should be any worry about this team overlooking Cleveland.

On Bengals.com and the Chris Evans play:
On Saturday night we order the third downs and red zones and talk to Joe about what he likes. He gives us his favorites and we try to call those," Callahan says. "We have a lot of plays we like in those areas and he sort of orders them the way he likes them best. So we try to give them those in the order he prefers them and that was one of his favorite plays at that spot in the red zone. It was the next play to come up and we felt really good about it."
This is how specific it gets. The play is designed for between the eight and 14-yard lines. The Bengals were sitting at first down from the eight (thanks to wide receiver Tyler Boyd's third-down conversion) and the top two plays on the list had already worked for touchdowns. But the Chiefs were playing a different style of defense and the Bengals were banking on the percentages of their study that showed KC played a handful of man in that spot. Those two plays weren't the counter now.
"If it's not man and it's something else," Callahan says, "you try to design plays you hope answers to beat their top one or two coverages and make sure your progressions take you to a completion if it's not what you think it's going to be. If it's not man, other routes would have come up on the pattern."
But no problem. It was man. Since it had been hashed out the night before, Taylor went right to the next call for that part of the red zone, one with a funky formation and a quick, hurry-up tempo, two ingredients Callahan thinks helped spring the play so wide open.
Evans, who had been in the huddle only once Sunday before this play, and just six times in the three-game winning streak, was lined up as a receiver on the outside of an unconventional bunch formation while wide receiver Ja'Marr Chase lined up where the running back would usually be, next to Burrow in the shotgun.

The Chiefs hesitated in the back while they blitzed up front. Left tackle Johan Williams picked it up and Burrow had plenty of time to see his last option, Evans running underneath from right to left with not a soul thinking of covering him.
Usually running back Joe Mixon would have been lined up like that, but he was out with a concussion. Sunday's bellcow, Samaje Perine, isn't used in pass formations like that. But that's Evans' M.O.
Callahan figures Evan repped it twice last week. Both on Friday. Once in walk-through. Once in practice. Evans heard his name and personnel group called and running backs coach Justin Hill already had him ready for anything, anyway.
"Whether you're playing two plays or 60, you always have to be thinking you're going to be going into the game," Callahan says. "We try to use players the way that emphasize their strengths. We try to find things they can do and that was a play and a formation that really fits the way Chris can run routes and catch the ball." It

(12-06-2022, 08:08 PM)Wyche Wrote: Absolutely. If you're playing these boys, you better be aggressive. Now, if we were playing a team like TN, I'd probably take the points, but playing a squad like this that can score easily on one play, I'm gambling. 

This staff is gonna take heat for every little thing that doesn't go 100% correct on here, and that's the way it will likely remain. I know faulk hates the crow analogy, but there are just some who refuse to eat it. 

The worst are the ones who only show up after a loss, lol. 

True but it's hard to make that point knowing they gambled and lost points, yet still won the game. 

Everybody says that Mahomes was going to score if given the time left, but he may have turned the ball over trying to force something. Or maybe because the Bengals pinned their ears back knowing the pass was coming and knocked the ball loose from his arm and the Bengals scored again. As the people that make this claim say, every different play changes what's to come, yet they only expect the worse to come to justify the roll of the dice.    

Not hating on Zac because he likes to gamble and believe he would have even if it were Tennessee. I would have taken the 7 point lead personally but not hating on anybody that disagrees and wanted to go for it though. As long as Joe is on the field there's a good chance, so I get it. 

Love this team, love Zac as HC, and love you guys, so not sweating it, plus it worked out. This post is not really directed at you personally just in general per knowing that almost the entire board disagrees with me on this lol

(12-07-2022, 01:06 AM)Go Cards Wrote: True but it's hard to make that point knowing they gambled and lost points, yet still won the game. 

Everybody says that Mahomes was going to score if given the time left, but he may have turned the ball over trying to force something. Or maybe because the Bengals pinned their ears back knowing the pass was coming and knocked the ball loose from his arm and the Bengals scored again. As the people that make this claim say, every different play changes what's to come, yet they only expect the worse to come to justify the roll of the dice.    

Not hating on Zac because he likes to gamble and believe he would have even if it were Tennessee. I would have taken the 7 point lead personally but not hating on anybody that disagrees and wanted to go for it though. As long as Joe is on the field there's a good chance, so I get it. 

Love this team, love Zac as HC, and love you guys, so not sweating it, plus it worked out. This post is not really directed at you personally just in general per knowing that almost the entire board disagrees with me on this lol

Nah, we're usually on the same page, and I certainly get your logic. You're correct we don't know what would have happened. I'm just going on what we've seen from number 15 throughout his career. You want daggers when dealing with him, lol.

You may be right about the TN scenario and Zac, I'm just putting out there what my philosophy would be in the two different instances if I were him. 

(12-07-2022, 01:06 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Not hating on Zac because he likes to gamble and believe he would have even if it were Tennessee. I would have taken the 7 point lead personally but not hating on anybody that disagrees and wanted to go for it though. As long as Joe is on the field there's a good chance, so I get it. 

I likely would of taken 7 point lead in half as well... I just hated the play design.

Either a QB sneak or have Joe in shot gun on 4th and 1's.... Zac seems to take the ball out of Burrows hands a lot in these situations. I want my best player to decide the game... I realize it's a team game but he makes things happen.

(12-06-2022, 07:53 PM)Nepa Wrote: You have no way of knowing what would have happened if the Bengals took the 3 points. The Chiefs still had 51 seconds to go down and score their own field goal. Or touchdown.

You don't take the 3 points when its 4th and inches at the KC 4. You just don't. Not against KC.

And Andy Reid knew you don't take the 3 points when facing the Bengals. He went for it on 4th and goal from the Bengals 3.

I think we used to call that, "Marvin ball"... Let's kick FGs

(12-06-2022, 08:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Throwing it to a wide open guy that nobody is paying attention to is not the same as having that same guy start carrying the ball 4 yards behind the LoS, behind the OL, with everyone paying attention to him.

Just stop, now you're just embarrassing yourself

I wanted the FG. I never said ZT couldn’t coach. I have been a critic at times… . So sue me. The main thing I would “eat crow” about has long since been resolved. ZT appears to be learning from his mistakes, and that’s all I can adk for from a young coach.

I was mum on Zac from the beginning to last year: the NFL is such a gray sport, nothing makes itself apparent until everything goes right... only then can a vision, a unit, a scheme, be utilised to its best.

'19 was a joke, '20 was rife with injuries and last year was still rebuilding, but almost there and things went right for the most part... and we saw how great the team was, not just by individual performances but through the scheme, playcalls and putting things together with a shit oline.

Last year showed me how good the staff is from the football side, while the previous 2 years showed me how great of a motivator and person Zac is: even at 1-14, that last Cleveland game had EVERYONE on that field going nuts, being super hyped, playing super hard and the smiles never left players' faces, nor did the energy wane. That spilled into '20, even with all of the issues we had with injuries. That showed me the team bought in and was along for the ride, good or bad.

I am behind Zac now, more than ever.

Still find it hilarious that people will STILL defend that loser Kingsbury over Zac, to this day; look at that disaster there and they were in just as bad shape in '19, when he was hired as well as Zac.

(12-07-2022, 02:35 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I was mum on Zac from the beginning to last year: the NFL is such a gray sport, nothing makes itself apparent until everything goes right... only then can a vision, a unit, a scheme, be utilised to its best.

'19 was a joke, '20 was rife with injuries and last year was still rebuilding, but almost there and things went right for the most part... and we saw how great the team was, not just by individual performances but through the scheme, playcalls and putting things together with a shit oline.

Last year showed me how good the staff is from the football side, while the previous 2 years showed me how great of a motivator and person Zac is: even at 1-14, that last Cleveland game had EVERYONE on that field going nuts, being super hyped, playing super hard and the smiles never left players' faces, nor did the energy wane. That spilled into '20, even with all of the issues we had with injuries. That showed me the team bought in and was along for the ride, good or bad.

I am behind Zac now, more than ever.

Still find it hilarious that people will STILL defend that loser Kingsbury over Zac, to this day; look at that disaster there and they were in just as bad shape in '19, when he was hired as well as Zac.

Kingsbury is going to find himself unemployed after this season, in my opinion. 

The crow tastes amazing

(12-06-2022, 03:03 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I'll be the first to eat crow.

I always liked ZT as a head coach, but always thought his offense was lacking. It was set up on go balls to Chase and his offense wasn't sustainable.

After the first half of the season, a lot of us complained about the offense and how we couldn't beat cover two.

Well, this offense has evolved remarkably since then. They are using the entire field, throwing intermediate, and running with consistency.

I think we need to give ZT and his offensive staff a TON of credit for adjusting on the fly and turning this offense around from one dimensional to completely fluent.

Bengals EPA vs Cover 2
First 6 weeks: -.07 (28th in league)
After week 6: .36 (1st)

That is incredible.

"We" didn't say anything. 

(12-06-2022, 03:03 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: After the first half of the season, a lot of us complained about the offense and how we couldn't beat cover two.

Well, this offense has evolved remarkably since then. They are using the entire field, throwing intermediate, and running with consistency.

I think we need to give ZT and his offensive staff a TON of credit for ....

Reading this board and adjusting accordingly.

Sent from my SM-S515DL using Tapatalk

(12-06-2022, 09:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Because they still have their assignments and Dunlap blew it up 4 yards behind the LoS before anyone else could.

It isn't even just Trent. Ja'Marr Chase has 4 carries for 2 yards this year. Being a ball carrier is different. That play doesn't go well for the Bengals.

Bengals WRs have 9 carries this year for 1 first down. The Bengals are 2/10 on 4th down this year, worst in the NFL.

You keep acting like this is some magical gotcha moment, it isn't. Take the 3. Have a good night bfine.

You know who agrees with you and would have taken the 3??? Most of the other coaches in the NFL. You know, the one's that KC is something like 40-2 against while Taylor is 3-0. Taking 3 is the safe thing to do. It's also how KC beats most people. When you're playing Mahomes, you have to score touchdowns. It's that simple. The proof is in the pudding as they say, or in this case, the record.