(12-20-2022, 11:54 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I talked to somebody today with tremendous insight. He thinks Lou is a tremendous coach and boy this guy knows defense. He thinks it’s going to be tough for Lou this year. There’s going to be few openings. Few defensive coaches get hired in the first place. He expects the Bengal season to last into deep into the playoffs. And the most important reason I flat forgot.

yeah, the days of defensive coaches being top HC candidates are over.  Shitty teams that fire HCs are wanting to hire a Qb whisperer and draft a young signal caller to pair with him.  It's basically the fastest and possibly only way to take a downtrodden franchise into relevance "overnight".  None of the top teams are run by defensive guys right now.  

(12-20-2022, 07:02 PM)Yogo Wrote: Lou is vital to this team.... with that, Lou is all but gone.... probably going to take Bates III and Apple with him next year to his brand new gig.... probably in Atlanta or Denver.  I've been noticing a lot of teams switching their standard defensive alignment to a 4-2-5. Sorry.

Atlanta is definitely not going to fire Smith. The Walton’s at Denver are conservative and unlikely to give Hackett one year. Lou is safe this year.

I will put myself in the camp that wanted ZT, Lou, & Turner gone.

We were right on Turner. Hexwas a terrible hire, though ZT got hured late and may not have had his 1st choices available, or accepting of offers.

I will also say that both ZT and Lou have gotten better, though some things certainly took a while. We finally figured out the value of NOT giving away theplay via formation or personnel (as much). Taylor realized he needed to change the culture after that first year (or late into it). Malcontents gone. Captains & coaches sons in. And winners eith PO experience in. He and the FO deserve a ton of credit.

Lou too. He got his type of players in after the first year (especially at DB) and things have looked up. Reader and Hendrickson are studs. Bell was a pro's pro when he walked in. But we have also developed guys (Hubbard, Wilson, Pratt, Davis) or gotten more ourlt of guys than they had shown elsewhere (Chido, Hill, Apple). A sign of good coaching.

(12-20-2022, 07:31 PM)jason Wrote: His defenses were terrible. Sometimes they were historically bad. That's not a hot take... It's a fact. Lou wasn't doing a great job with what he had. Now they're solid (middle of the road at worst), and he makes great adjustments. That's also a fact. People can eat crow if they want. I don't see the need.

We're also finding out this year that it's possible to win with a bunch of injuries. That was an excuse. The staff did a poor job those first 2 years. They've gotten better.

I think the first two years Lou was dealing with Marvin’s players, and some of them just didn’t fit into his vision of defense or were reluctant to. It took a few seasons to reshape things so he could run schemes the way he wanted. 

(12-20-2022, 11:54 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I talked to somebody today with tremendous insight. He thinks Lou is a tremendous coach and boy this guy knows defense. He thinks it’s going to be tough for Lou this year. There’s going to be few openings. Few defensive coaches get hired in the first place. He expects the Bengal season to last into deep into the playoffs. And the most important reason I flat forgot. It wasn’t negative by any means. I’ll remember and post. I’ll add Zac was encouraged to get a very veteran defensive coordinator when hired. Several turned him down and then he got to get who he wanted all along.

Tremendous, huge.

Really fabulous.

(12-20-2022, 10:43 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, you did. I've taken a little heat over Zac.... especially when I made the Coaching Props thread, lol. I honestly didn't know what to make of Lou initially.....I knew he had a shitty squad when he got here. I'm pretty certain I questioned him though.

Yeah, especially with Fred over the whole Dunlap fiasco. When Lou got here, he had players who just wanted to do it the way they always had and not change. Those players who bought into his system (Hubbard, Pratt, Bell, etc) have prospered and improved their games immensely.

I certainly gave Zac, Lou, and Brian my share of grief. Even the first few games this season.

My apologies to them.

(12-21-2022, 09:47 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Yeah, especially with Fred over the whole Dunlap fiasco. When Lou got here, he had players who just wanted to do it the way they always had and not change. Those players who bought into his system (Hubbard, Pratt, Bell, etc) have prospered and improved their games immensely.

I don't have any inside info on this, it's just my belief. But I believe Carlos wanted out from the moment Zac and Co. took over.

(12-21-2022, 09:51 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I don't have any inside info on this, it's just my belief. But I believe Carlos wanted out from the moment Zac and Co. took over.

I have to wonder what goes through a malcontent's mind when they force their way off a team thinking they are going to go to a playoff and Super Bowl team, then sit at home on the couch and watch the team they left win throughout the playoffs, become Conference Champs and play in the Super Bowl..... and now apparently making run at doing it again in back-to-back years. 

(12-21-2022, 09:55 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I have to wonder what goes through a malcontent's mind when they force their way off a team thinking they are going to go to a playoff and Super Bowl team, then sit at home on the couch and watch the team they left win throughout the playoffs, become Conference Champs and play in the Super Bowl..... and now apparently making run at doing it again in back-to-back years. 

Yes he's got to be thinking damn I shoulda shut up and got onboard.

(12-20-2022, 07:02 PM)Yogo Wrote: Lou is vital to this team.... with that, Lou is all but gone.... probably going to take Bates III and Apple with him next year to his brand new gig.... probably in Atlanta or Denver.  I've been noticing a lot of teams switching their standard defensive alignment to a 4-2-5.  Sorry.

Probably so but most teams prefer an offensive minded head coach.  

That being said, with a guy like Mahomes in the AFC West the other teams have to face him twice a year.  Lou has proven his schemes can at least slow him down.  That's probably the best chance for him to land a HC gig.  San Diego, Denver and Vegas are all options but Denver and Vegas just hired new coaches so they'd have to cut bait before seeing what potential they may have.... although McDaniels has been a failure before who knows.

(12-20-2022, 06:47 PM)GodFather Wrote: I remember the first 2 years in the Zac era with Andy and then Burrow's rookie year, everyone wanted Lou gone...myself included.

Boy eating crow is an understatement. This guy got the players he wanted in his system and they have been the most consistent thing on this team week in and week out.


Now I feel selfish, because he deserves a head coaching job and new opportunities but I don't want the guy leaving...the schemes and adjustments he makes are like no other.

idk Luo seemed to always be doing better than the guy on the otherside the early years

(12-21-2022, 09:50 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I certainly gave Zac, Lou, and Brian my share of grief. Even the first few games this season.

My apologies to them.

It is part of being a fan. Get down on the team when they suck and cheer when they succeed. The "get down on the team" part has been especially easy for us fans who weathered the '90s. Now that Zac and his staff are having success, we have Burrow at QB, and ownership had exhibited changes I remind myself to not associate the franchise with the '90s teams. Thus, I try and check myself from having too many dramatic woe-is-Bengals moments as a fan.

I didn't even flinch against the Bucs last week. I refrained from "OMG, it's over!" and instead enjoyed the team and knew they had a comeback chance.

This is a fun time to be a Bengals fan.

(12-21-2022, 03:28 AM)GodFather Wrote: I think the first two years Lou was dealing with Marvin’s players, and some of them just didn’t fit into his vision of defense or were reluctant to. It took a few seasons to reshape things so he could run schemes the way he wanted. 

Right and like I said, even Marvin was struggling with his own players. They were aging and had become soft.

(12-21-2022, 09:47 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Yeah, especially with Fred over the whole Dunlap fiasco. When Lou got here, he had players who just wanted to do it the way they always had and not change. Those players who bought into his system (Hubbard, Pratt, Bell, etc) have prospered and improved their games immensely.

Yep, he and I had a few dust-ups over the Dunlap deal too. Even though I wasn't sure about Lou at that time, I thought it was bush league on Carlos'part.

Let's not forget that Lou wasn't even our 2nd or 3rd choice as DC. He was 6th, IIRC. So, he had an uphill battle to begin with. Yet, here we are extoling his virtues and hoping that he stays at DC after this season. It still boggles my mind. This is much like a 6th round QB ending up as one of the greatest QBs in NFL history.

(12-20-2022, 10:41 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: The defense was also historically bad under Austin and then Marvin when he had to take over. Remember? The roster was aging, and there were bad drafts. A bad combination. I mean, if Marvin Lewis can't turn the defense around, you know the players are shit. He may have had his faults as HC, but there's no denying he knew his shit on that side of the ball. 

Even if Marvin had stayed, they were gonna have to flip the roster.

Fair-ish... A spade is a spade though, and they were garbage for two years. They were better last year, but still nothing to write home about. The moral of the story is that faith and patience may sometimes be rewarded. Also the first apple on the Zac Taylor coaching tree may fall... Lou doesn't strike me as HC material, but I've been wrong before... Especially about him.

(12-21-2022, 11:20 AM)jason Wrote: Fair-ish... A spade is a spade though, and they were garbage for two years. They were better last year, but still nothing to write home about. The moral of the story is that faith and patience may sometimes be rewarded. Also the first apple on the Zac Taylor coaching tree may fall... Lou doesn't strike me as HC material, but I've been wrong before... Especially about him.

It's a lot like the offensive line. It's improving, and good enough to keep you in games. Burrow and his boys make splash plays here and there, the defense gets a timely turnover and is actually pretty good in the red zone. Like I said though, the same two things sunk Marvin his last two years. The offensive line, and the defense. That's probably why I had a little more patience with these guys than a lot of others. A sixteen year vet was struggling to win more than 5-6 games, I assumed a rookie HC would not do a lot better. I didn't see 2-14, but I figured there'd be struggles and you'd need to flip the roster and get a franchise QB as quickly as possible. Then see how they did. Look where we are.....but I don't think there were very many people that thought this no name DB coach could get them to play team and opportunistic defense. I didn't. You always see guys hustling to the ball. They play fundamentally sound. They tackle well. Hilton is great in run support. 

(12-21-2022, 11:20 AM)jason Wrote: Fair-ish... A spade is a spade though, and they were garbage for two years. They were better last year, but still nothing to write home about. The moral of the story is that faith and patience may sometimes be rewarded. Also the first apple on the Zac Taylor coaching tree may fall... Lou doesn't strike me as HC material, but I've been wrong before... Especially about him.

You honestly think that a vet coaching crew would have fared better the first 2 years? I don't. It was pretty much a rebuild from getting players needed to fit in their system, changing the organization to do business in a new way. They pretty much breathed new life into this archaic way of running this franchise from top to bottom. You don't get to the Super Bowl having a shitty staff.  

Kind of crazy to think about how Lou ended up the DC.

The first guy Zac talked to was Del Rio, but both said it was determined not to be a fit.
They then contacted Dom Capers who said he wasn't interested in the job.
Then it was Todd Grantham, who they were actually in negotiations with, but leveraged that for a new deal to stay at Florida.
Next, they requested an interview with Aaron Glenn, but were blocked by the Saints.
Then they contacted Jeff Hafley at Ohio St, but he declined to interview.
They also reportedly contacted Mike Elko, Marquand Manuel and Aubrey Pleasant.

Then finally...Lou is interviewed and agrees to take the job. 

He might not have been the 1st choice, or the 4th or 5th but I'm sure as hell glad we have him and hope that he's here for awhile.