(01-03-2023, 12:54 PM)Sled21 Wrote: It bothered my wife as well. This is how I know a career in Law Enforcement jaded me. I slept like a baby. She even mentioned I sounded cold hearted when talking about calling off the game, but I reminded her I've had so many people die right in front of me, some holding my hand begging not to die, watching someone get hurt on tv didn't really register much emotion. I'm truly sorry it happened and pray he's ok, I just did not get emotional over it.

Not a first responder, but witnessed tragedy and death up close and personal. It’s extremely sad, but when you experience it first hand, it changes you.

Again, I’m praying for a full recovery, to live a norma life.

(01-03-2023, 12:54 PM)Sled21 Wrote: It bothered my wife as well. This is how I know a career in Law Enforcement jaded me. I slept like a baby. She even mentioned I sounded cold hearted when talking about calling off the game, but I reminded her I've had so many people die right in front of me, some holding my hand begging not to die, watching someone get hurt on tv didn't really register much emotion. I'm truly sorry it happened and pray he's ok, I just did not get emotional over it.

I watched doctors unsuccessfully try to resuscitate my father and it messed me up for years. That said, I can't imagine what it felt like for you watching those people die in front of you.

(01-03-2023, 11:47 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Damar Hamlin...  has a charity fundraiser if anyone wants to contribute

https://www.gofundme.com/f/mxksc-the-chasing-ms-foundation-community-toy-drive

among those who have already donated to the fund are Andy and Jordan Dalton who donated $3000.

Everyone reacts to these things differently. I was a whitewater guide on the hardest rivers in the country for 20 years, and every drowning I witnessed the folks around it all reacted much differently. One really bad on in particular the company gave all of us involved in the recovery an optional 30 days off. A few of us were back to work the next day, but some never came back ever. You never know how it will impact you until it happens. You could see that in the players last night.

(01-03-2023, 02:01 PM)pally Wrote: among those who have already donated to the fund are Andy and Jordan Dalton who donated $3000.

They Continue to Shine with Class

Announcement directly from Damar’s family: pic.twitter.com/MdzgxUmVfg

— Jordon Rooney (@jordonr) January 3, 2023

(01-03-2023, 01:19 PM)Earendil Wrote: I watched doctors unsuccessfully try to resuscitate my father and it messed me up for years. That said, I can't imagine what it felt like for you watching those people die in front of you.

They say most people live their entire lives seeing 1.5 critical incidents, while most cops and firemen who make it through retirement see over 800. I don't think there's a 20-year police or firefighter out there anywhere that does not have some form of PTSD. You adopt a graveyard sense of humor to get through it, and most people do not understand how a person can seem so callous. It's self-preservation. 

So according to the doctor they were just talking to on ESPN, we should know something after 24 hours. the usual protocol is to keep the patient sedated and cooled to maintain brain function. After 24 hours, they will start to warm them up and wake them up to access neurological damage. (According to what they said, I'm not a doctor)

(01-03-2023, 02:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: They say most people live their entire lives seeing 1.5 critical incidents, while most cops and firemen who make it through retirement see over 800. I don't think there's a 20-year police or firefighter out there anywhere that does not have some form of PTSD. You adopt a graveyard sense of humor to get through it, and most people do not understand how a person can seem so callous. It's self-preservation. 

My FIL was a firefighter/paramedic and an ER nurse. He has some real gut wrenching stories but they don't seem to bother him to tell. I think he has that bit of callous that you've mentioned. "It just is what it is" type mentality. He recently retired from the department after 24 years but he is going back into nursing. Luckily, he is a happy, jolly, optimistic guy for the most part. Several of the stories are very tough, though. 

(01-03-2023, 02:16 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: My FIL was a firefighter/paramedic and an ER nurse. He has some real gut wrenching stories but they don't seem to bother him to tell. I think he has that bit of callous that you've mentioned. "It just is what it is" type mentality. He recently retired from the department after 24 years but he is going back into nursing. Luckily, he is a happy, jolly, optimistic guy for the most part. Several of the stories are very tough, though. 

Yup. Imagine going to work on a Mother's Day Sunday morning, and first call out of the box is bodies in a ditch on a country road. Get there, there are two 15 year olds, one white, one black, laying dead in the ditch with broken necks from where they wrecked the dirt bike they were on. No ID's on either, no plate on the bike and the VIN is not registered. Load them up and send them to the morgue. Then, about an hour and a half later you get a call to take a missing person report. You get to the house and the Mother (white) is reporting her son was out last night with his friend (black) and they didn't come home. You have to stand there and take the missing person report without saying anything because the coroner has to make the notification. One of the worst hours of my life filling out that report, then going to get the coroner to come back and make the notification. But guess what, clear the call and take the next one. That is the stuff that wears on a person. And my wife wonders why I don't stop at wrecks when other people are. If no one is there, I'll stop. If there are people there, I just go on by. 

(01-03-2023, 02:29 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yup. Imagine going to work on a Mother's Day Sunday morning, and first call out of the box is bodies in a ditch on a country road. Get there, there are two 15 year olds, one white, one black, laying dead in the ditch with broken necks from where they wrecked the dirt bike they were on. No ID's on either, no plate on the bike and the VIN is not registered. Load them up and send them to the morgue. Then, about an hour and a half later you get a call to take a missing person report. You get to the house and the Mother (white) is reporting her son was out last night with his friend (black) and they didn't come home. You have to stand there and take the missing person report without saying anything because the coroner has to make the notification. One of the worst hours of my life filling out that report, then going to get the coroner to come back and make the notification. But guess what, clear the call and take the next one. That is the stuff that wears on a person. And my wife wonders why I don't stop at wrecks when other people are. If no one is there, I'll stop. If there are people there, I just go on by. 

damn dude.  i cannot imagine this scenario.  hope you take the time someone to talk to a professional about some of this stuff at some point.  you may not feel an immediate need to at any specific point, but I can tell you it would probably help, even if in the slightest bit, no matter how far removed you are from these sorts events.  speaking from personal experience there bud.  wish you the best and thank you for what you've done for the community you served.

(01-03-2023, 02:12 PM)Sled21 Wrote: So according to the doctor they were just talking to on ESPN, we should know something after 24 hours. the usual protocol is to keep the patient sedated and cooled to maintain brain function. After 24 hours, they will start to warm them up and wake them up to access neurological damage. (According to what they said, I'm not a doctor)

Well that certainly makes sense as to why any actual, detailed updates on his condition haven't been announced. I sure do hope he is going to be fine when they bring him back around. 

(01-03-2023, 02:44 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: damn dude.  i cannot imagine this scenario.  hope you take the time someone to talk to a professional about some of this stuff at some point.  you may not feel an immediate need to at any specific point, but I can tell you it would probably help, even if in the slightest bit, no matter how far removed you are from these sorts events.  speaking from personal experience there bud.  wish you the best and thank you for what you've done for the community you served.

I've dealt with it. I retired from that part of the work in 2002 and just do investigations now. It's all good, it just left me with a warped sense of humor and a certain callousness towards things like this. After you see it so many times, it just doesn't really register like it would someone experiencing it for the first time. 

(01-03-2023, 02:51 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I've dealt with it. I retired from that part of the work in 2002 and just do investigations now. It's all good, it just left me with a warped sense of humor and a certain callousness towards things like this. After you see it so many times, it just doesn't really register like it would someone experiencing it for the first time. 

I get it man.  Just please don't discount it completely or be someone who says "I'll never seek treatment".  Keep an open mind because advancements in this arena are progressing quickly.  I'll leave it there.  

(01-03-2023, 09:16 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I really do not expect him to have brain damage. He got medical treatment almost immediately... far faster than someone having a heart attack at home and waiting on an ambulance. They slapped an AED on him almost immediately and started CPR.  I'm praying for good news today. As far as no news, it's the middle of the night, it's up to the family what gets released, and I'm sure family members are still making their way to Cincy. Lack of a news conference on his condition is not surprising. 

Where did you get that info.   To my trained eye (witnessed at least a few dozen syncopal events over my career) it looked like they screwed around stabilizing his neck first and looking dumbfounded about what was going on and didn't start CPR for the over 2 minutes or more that I was watching.   When i saw him collapse and let out a breathless "OMG" as anyone who has seen enough sudden cardiac/circulatory events recognizes them from across the room when it happens .   For a couple more minutes it seemed like the training staff just kept looking him over, not doing cpr through his equipment or even trying to get his chest exposed.  Never once saw them check for a pulse, but we also didn't have a completely unobstructed view...so I can't say with certainty it wasn't done.

So I think he went without adequate perfusion and oxygenation way longer than he should have.  The fact that he is still on a ventilator this am is not a good sign, (but not necessarily a dire one, either).  Most, but not all, people with witnessed syncope/arrhythmias that are converted immediately, ie within minutes, will  wake up and breath and are responsive within 10 min or less,...even my very out of shape,( but still VERY  shapely I might add) wife never did get intubated after her arrhythmia, though she now has a really cool pacer/defibrillator.    I would expect a trained athlete at peak condition with the highest circulatory and metabolic efficiency to be a little more resistant to anoxic injury.   

In defense of training staff,  from personal experience, football equipment is damn hard to get off rapidly in an unresponsive player and the shoulder pad unit has hard plastic that shields the sternum and chest for just this reason and  if cpr is being done through it, it is likely to be much less effective.

Lack of good news  beyond "stable vitals" , some 12 hrs later and still on a ventilator is a very disconcerting to me.  Says there is a significant concern for anoxic brain injury esp if he's been put in a chemical coma and induced hypothermia-- I don't know if it's being employed or not...anybody know for sure?

(01-03-2023, 03:17 PM)dr tarzan Wrote: Where did you get that info.   To my trained eye (witnessed at least a few dozen syncopal events over my career) it looked like they screwed around stabilizing his neck first and looking dumbfounded about what was going on and didn't start CPR for the over 2 minutes or more that I was watching.   When i saw him collapse and let out a breathless "OMG" as anyone who has seen enough sudden cardiac/circulatory events recognizes them from across the room when it happens .   For a couple more minutes it seemed like the training staff just kept looking him over, not doing cpr through his equipment or even trying to get his chest exposed.  Never once saw them check for a pulse, but we also didn't have a completely unobstructed view...so I can't say with certainty it wasn't done.

So I think he went without adequate perfusion and oxygenation way longer than he should have.  The fact that he is still on a ventilator this am is not a good sign, (but not necessarily a dire one, either).  Most, but not all, people with witnessed syncope/arrhythmias that are converted immediately, ie within minutes, will  wake up and breath and are responsive within 10 min or less,...even my very out of shape,( but still VERY  shapely I might add) wife never did get intubated after her arrhythmia, though she now has a really cool pacer/defibrillator.    I would expect a trained athlete at peak condition with the highest circulatory and metabolic efficiency to be a little more resistant to anoxic injury.   

In defense of training staff,  from personal experience, football equipment is damn hard to get off rapidly in an unresponsive player and the shoulder pad unit has hard plastic that shields the sternum and chest for just this reason and  if cpr is being done through it, it is likely to be much less effective.

Lack of good news  beyond "stable vitals" , some 12 hrs later and still on a ventilator is a very disconcerting to me.  Says there is a significant concern for anoxic brain injury esp if he's been put in a chemical coma and induced hypothermia-- I don't know if it's being employed or not...anybody know for sure?

Some of my impressions are different. Given the circumstances after making a tackle and then collapsing and hitting his head on the turf, I think it was appropriate to stabilize his neck. Immediately after the hit, he was moving his right arm and it didn’t look like posturing. So he may still have been conscious I could almost immediately tell by the way the trainers were acting that it seemed like a serious injury. I only had a few seconds in which I could see Hamlin on the turf before they went to commercial and it is impossible for me to know when CPR was started or when it needed to be started.

(01-03-2023, 04:31 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Some of my impressions are different. Given the circumstances after making a tackle and then collapsing and hitting his head on the turf, I think it was appropriate to stabilize his neck. Immediately after the hit, he was moving his right arm and it didn’t look like posturing. So he may still have been conscious   I could almost immediately tell by the way the trainers were acting that it seemed like a serious injury. I only had a few seconds in which I could see Hamlin on the turf before they went to commercial and it is impossible for me to know when CPR was started or when it needed to be started.

It's not worth arguing about with him, there were doctors on the field.

(01-03-2023, 04:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: It's not worth arguing about with him, there were doctors on the field.

I don’t want to argue. Just giving my impression. Which doesn’t mean my impressions are correct, either. Just different. Others may know more or observed something I missed.

I'm just waiting on the report that he's awake, talking and going to be released in a few days. Lofty, I know, but all I really want to hear.

Bengals long snapper Cal Adomitis, who played with Damar Hamlin at Central Catholic and Pitt, said that when Cincy was updated on Hamlin's status, Joe Burrow was the first one to speak up and ask if the team could visit the Bills locker room to express their support/ concern.

— Mike DeFabo (@MikeDeFabo) January 3, 2023

More from Adomitis on Damar Hamlin: "Even though he was a dude who had 8 billion offers coming out of high school and I was just fighting to get on the field, he always treated me with respect... No matter what your role on the team was, he treated you with the same dignity."

— Mike DeFabo (@MikeDeFabo) January 3, 2023

More from Cal Adomitis, who played with Damar Hamlin at Central Catholic and Pitt: "If there's anyone that's capable of pulling through and coming out the other side, alright, it's him."

— Mike DeFabo (@MikeDeFabo) January 3, 2023