(01-03-2023, 09:32 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Part of me wonders if this will change the nfl. Like we know about cte and the other injuries.

For me, this is possibly scarier because it wasn't some huge collision.

I wonder if we'll see guys decide its not worth it and retire.

(01-03-2023, 09:32 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Part of me wonders if this will change the nfl. Like we know about cte and the other injuries.

For me, this is possibly scarier because it wasn't some huge collision.

I wonder if we'll see guys decide its not worth it and retire.

There are a lot of jobs with significant mortality risk... Coal mining comes to mind.

But most of these jobs do not come with the opportunity of the nfl or the American media. Yet people still work in coal mines...

NFL players are modern day gladiators... But it is not an unrewarded profession in comparison. It is in our faces, while coal mining and other dangerous professions are not.

Taking care of each other is the only important equalizer. Be a better human. Care about others. The rest is probably about money.


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(01-04-2023, 12:32 AM)maclanta Wrote: There are a lot of jobs with significant mortality risk... Coal mining comes to mind.

But most of these jobs do not come with the opportunity of the nfl or the American media. Yet people still work in coal mines...

NFL players are modern day gladiators... But it is not an unrewarded profession in comparison. It is in our faces, while coal mining and other dangerous professions are not.

Taking care of each other is the only important equalizer. Be a better human. Care about others. The rest is probably about money.


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This is actually a true reality check....

10 people on average die in the coal mines each and every year.

In 2021 over 700 construction workers died on the job, over 1,000 truckers and material delivery drivers died, over 200 grounds and maintenance workers died, hell 83 retail workers died on the job a year ago as well.  

None of these workers are in the same stratosphere in terms of money or fame as a pro athlete, yet their families and friends were most likely just as devastated.  Many of us may see a small blurb about a job accident and go right on to the next topic.  Everyone needs to be careful.

(01-04-2023, 12:32 AM)maclanta Wrote: There are a lot of jobs with significant mortality risk... Coal mining comes to mind.

But most of these jobs do not come with the opportunity of the nfl or the American media. Yet people still work in coal mines...

NFL players are modern day gladiators... But it is not an unrewarded profession in comparison. It is in our faces, while coal mining and other dangerous professions are not.

Taking care of each other is the only important equalizer. Be a better human. Care about others. The rest is probably about money.


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I've always thought the same thing about sports. Especially contact sports. It's the modern day Gladiators, but with obvious benefits to the players and much less risk in comparison. I think it's just a shot you take and you need to be careful moreso in the long term damage aspects as incidents like this are extremely rare outliers.

If anything this would increase the safety aspect of the league in having equipment and personnel being more timely and quick to respond rather than equipment and such.

(01-04-2023, 12:49 AM)casear2727 Wrote: This is actually a true reality check....

10 people on average die in the coal mines each and every year.

In 2021 over 700 construction workers died on the job, over 1,000 truckers and material delivery drivers died, over 200 grounds and maintenance workers died, hell 83 retail workers died on the job a year ago as well.  

None of these workers are in the same stratosphere in terms of money or fame as a pro athlete, yet their families and friends were most likely just as devastated.  Many of us may see a small blurb about a job accident and go right on to the next topic.  Everyone needs to be careful.

Yes sir. And wars kill. All kinds of things. 

When people start caring and working together, good things can happen. Instead people pick sides. 

(01-04-2023, 12:22 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I’m not so sure it is the same thing. That guy absolutely had that thing happen to him that everyone is talking about. Hockey  puck right in the heart.  Last night I didn’t see that kind of impact. The energy of a hockey puck, like a baseball, is expended in a very small area. But this is just me guessing.

It does seem critical, for the safety of the sports, to understand exactly what happened. Getting hit with a baseball in the chest has been known to cause sudden heart issues. You mention a hockey puck. What exactly caused this particular case seems to be a critical issue to resolve.

(01-04-2023, 05:28 AM)Nepa Wrote: It does seem critical, for the safety of the sports, to understand exactly what happened. Getting hit with a baseball in the chest has been known to cause sudden heart issues. You mention a hockey puck. What exactly caused this particular case seems to be a critical issue to resolve.

Sudden cardiac arrest in athletes is usually due to an undiagnosed heart condition.

Here is a video discussing it:

https://youtu.be/lbnBnVORkRE

(01-04-2023, 12:16 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: The only thing that terrifies me (assuming it's that condition where you get hit at the wrong time in your heart rhythm) was looking at a hockey example from the 90's. Guy got super fast treatment and was out of life threatening condition before he even left the stadium (if I understood it right), whereas Hamlin is a day out and still in ICU.

It is good to see that what updates we have he is improving a little. Prayers that there's no brain damage.

Yeah listening to a bunch of doctors normally they come right out of that (bold).  I dont want to speculate anything but this was not the first athlete that just fell over like this.  Hopefully they find the cause


His Toy Drive has jumped to over 5.5 million now.. Was around 2 mil when i first found it yesterday.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/03/damar-hamlin-toy-drive-fund-exceeds-5-5-million/

Damar apparently has continued to improve overnight..thank goodness

Jeff Ruby is catering a meal for the family at the hospital

(01-04-2023, 12:49 AM)casear2727 Wrote: This is actually a true reality check....

10 people on average die in the coal mines each and every year.

In 2021 over 700 construction workers died on the job, over 1,000 truckers and material delivery drivers died, over 200 grounds and maintenance workers died, hell 83 retail workers died on the job a year ago as well.  

None of these workers are in the same stratosphere in terms of money or fame as a pro athlete, yet their families and friends were most likely just as devastated.  Many of us may see a small blurb about a job accident and go right on to the next topic.  Everyone needs to be careful.

Not many in my profession (railroad conductor/switchman) die or get maimed even though it can be dangerous work. When something does happen, it’s usually horrific.
When we hit someone, we get 3 days off if we want it, no questions asked.

Encouraging news coming from family spokesperson. Someone said and I agree. If you are going to go into cardiac arrest there's no "greater" place then to do it on a football field where all the best doctors and medical personnel are located. If this happens at Kroger, then the outcome may be different.

(01-04-2023, 12:16 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: The only thing that terrifies me (assuming it's that condition where you get hit at the wrong time in your heart rhythm) was looking at a hockey example from the 90's. Guy got super fast treatment and was out of life threatening condition before he even left the stadium (if I understood it right), whereas Hamlin is a day out and still in ICU.

It is good to see that what updates we have he is improving a little. Prayers that there's no brain damage.

That is definitely within the list of possibilities or differential diagnosis, but usually it’s caused by smaller objects traveling at a faster speed. The larger the object hitting the chest the less likely it is to concentrate the force in one location. Getting hit with a puck is more likely to cause commotio cordis than a shoulder.

Sudden cardiac arrest in athletes is usually due to an undetected heart condition.

Here is a list of heart conditions which are more likely to cause sudden cardiac arrest in athletes:

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy
Anomalous origin of coronary artery
Arrhythmic right ventricular cardiomyopathy
Myocarditis
Coronary atherosclerosis
Long QT syndrome
Brugada syndrome
Catecholamenergic polymorphic ventricular tachycardia
Short QT syndrome
Early repolarization syndrome

They will need to eliminate all the possible structural and electrical causes of sudden cardiac arrest before they can determine if it may have been commotio cordis. Otherwise, it’s like me on my honeymoon; premature.

(01-04-2023, 01:12 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That is definitely within the list of possibilities or differential diagnosis, but usually it’s caused by smaller objects traveling at a faster speed. The larger the object hitting the chest the less likely it is to concentrate the force in one location. Getting hit with a puck is more likely to cause commotio cordis than a shoulder.

Sudden cardiac arrest in athletes is usually due to an undetected heart condition.

Here is a list of heart conditions which are more likely to cause sudden cardiac arrest in athletes:

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy
Anomalous origin of coronary artery
Arrhythmic right ventricular cardiomyopathy
Myocarditis
Coronary atherosclerosis
Long QT syndrome
Brugada syndrome
Catecholamenergic polymorphic ventricular tachycardia
Short QT syndrome
Early repolarization syndrome

They will need to eliminate all the possible structural and electrical causes of sudden cardiac arrest before they can determine if it may have been commotio cordis. Otherwise, it’s like me on my honeymoon; premature.

I was wondering if the shoulder pad could have replicated the hardness of a puck or baseball, if not the velocity. But does velocity matter if it’s in the exact spot to create the arrest?

It sounds like Demar's biggest challenge right now is the lung damage not necessarily heart function. Lung issues such as a collapsed lung or pulmonary edema are very common post-CPR, even pneumonia is a possibility.

Judging from the family's comments from earlier, he did well on the decrease of oxygen support last night. The doctor's next goals (according to my critical care nurse practitioner niece) would be to wean him off the ventilator and get him on plain oxygen with no mechanical support

(01-04-2023, 01:40 PM)SladeX Wrote: I was wondering if the shoulder pad could have replicated the hardness of a puck or baseball, if not the velocity. But does velocity matter if it’s in the exact spot to create the arrest?

Long story short, I would say it is possible, but not as probable.

If they can’t find a structural or electrical cause, then it was commotio cordis because of the mechanism of injury and not a pre-existing, undiagnosed heart condition.

In a way, it’s like working on an engine that won’t start. You might suspect the cause of the problem, but you gotta work through it to know for sure (or as sure as you can be.)

(01-04-2023, 01:40 PM)SladeX Wrote: I was wondering if the shoulder pad could have replicated the hardness of a puck or baseball, if not the velocity. But does velocity matter if it’s in the exact spot to create the arrest?

From what one of the doctors I saw interviewed about it said, it has more to do with the exact moment in the beating of the heart, ie it has to  hit right at the exact spot in the beat to interrupt the electrical charge and disrupt the rhythm.

(01-03-2023, 09:15 PM)Science Friction Wrote: Has anyone ever heard of some Deters guy?  Sounds like quite a piece of work. Don't know of him but heard he was pretty well known in NKY/Cin area and a very polarizing figure. In a tweet that he has since removed he said, in effect, the young man was being kept alive mechanically but there was no hope of recovery. He said he was quoting two impeccable sources. He apparently followed that removed tweet up with one that was challenging his detractors and saying that he will be vindicated in what he reported.

He's a scummy jackass. I has the misforutne of speaking with him on the phone, as i volunteered to raise money via spots in the high school football program during my son's jr year. 

Dude loves the sound of his own voice and says "i" probably more than anyone i've ever heard. 

(01-03-2023, 10:43 PM)samhain Wrote: I think that's Joe Deters.  Joe was a legit public official.  Eric is a grandstanding publicity ***** that seeks to make and take high profile cases to get his name out there.  Used to back up Cunningham on WLW until he got kicked off.  He's a real gem.

Right, Joe is routinely a guest on several of the WLW shows, but never been employed there that I'm aware of.

(01-04-2023, 03:58 PM)Sled21 Wrote: From what one of the doctors I saw interviewed about it said, it has more to do with the exact moment in the beating of the heart, ie it has to  hit right at the exact spot in the beat to interrupt the electrical charge and disrupt the rhythm.

Saw the same. Like a millisecond. And that the hardest of the hit actually has very little to do with it. Can be hit 5 times as hard the millisecond before or after and not have the same affect. Nearly impossible to duplicate. So bizarre. 

(01-04-2023, 01:12 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That is definitely within the list of possibilities or differential diagnosis, but usually it’s caused by smaller objects traveling at a faster speed. The larger the object hitting the chest the less likely it is to concentrate the force in one location. Getting hit with a puck is more likely to cause commotio cordis than a shoulder.

Sudden cardiac arrest in athletes is usually due to an undetected heart condition.

Here is a list of heart conditions which are more likely to cause sudden cardiac arrest in athletes:

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy
Anomalous origin of coronary artery
Arrhythmic right ventricular cardiomyopathy
Myocarditis
Coronary atherosclerosis
Long QT syndrome
Brugada syndrome
Catecholamenergic polymorphic ventricular tachycardia
Short QT syndrome
Early repolarization syndrome

They will need to eliminate all the possible structural and electrical causes of sudden cardiac arrest before they can determine if it may have been commotio cordis. Otherwise, it’s like me on my honeymoon; premature.

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.... that's where the heart is thickened, right? I seem to recall this was what Bears DE Gaines Adams died from in 2010 and Falcons C Jason Collier died from in 2005.

Is that something where it is hard to diagnosis? I read that NFL players are required to have an EKG annually, but that they only do a stress test and echocardiogram if there is something abnormal on the EKG.

Is it something where people in their late teens or early twenties are more at risk, like it can suddenly appear during that time?

(01-03-2023, 09:15 PM)Science Friction Wrote: Has anyone ever heard of some Deters guy?  Sounds like quite a piece of work. Don't know of him but heard he was pretty well known in NKY/Cin area and a very polarizing figure. In a tweet that he has since removed he said, in effect, the young man was being kept alive mechanically but there was no hope of recovery. He said he was quoting two impeccable sources. He apparently followed that removed tweet up with one that was challenging his detractors and saying that he will be vindicated in what he reported.

The scumbag is ERIC Deters, not Joe (though Joe is not exempt from sucmbag status just not the right one for this).  Joe Deters was the Hamilton County prosecutor and now Ohio State Supreme Court Judge.  Eric is a conspiracy theory-driven disbarred lawyer.  He has lost his license in both Ohio and Kentucky.  He threatened to burn down courthouses, and threatened physical harm to family members.  He has been accused of menacing behavior. He's running for governor of Kentucky in 2023.  Odds are that he'll lose.