(01-14-2023, 07:01 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Best in team history? 

No way. Most clutch? Maybe. 88 had a good, clutch squad....I don't remember 81. From then, up until now, we definitely had some defenses that were good at pissing down their legs when we needed them the most. 


Which defense would you take with the game on the line needing a stop....one of Zimmer's, or this current version? I never thought I'd say it, but I'm taking this one. What about you? 

I definitely don't think they're the best... Clutch like you said. I was sorta bouncing from conversation to conversation. I think Lou has turned a corner as a DC, but he's not the best we've had either. Two years ago I thought he was Austin bad though. So kudos to him.

(01-14-2023, 08:04 PM)jason Wrote: I definitely don't think they're the best... Clutch like you said. I was sorta bouncing from conversation to conversation. I think Lou has turned a corner as a DC, but he's not the best we've had either. Two years ago I thought he was Austin bad though. So kudos to him.

Yeah, I think it's ridiculous to even hint that he's better than LeBeau. I wouldn't say he's better than Zim in most aspects, but some he is. He's a master of the adjustment for one thing. Zimmer I didn't think was good at that. Lou's squad is very clutch, disciplined in the scheme, and fundamentally sound. They're mentally tough. Zims units were lacking in all of that often. Especially in big games. That's my argument.

That said, game on the line, who's unit you taking? I haven't gotten an answer from you or Leonard yet....lol.

(01-14-2023, 04:06 PM)jason Wrote: We'll just leave it at I'm glad Zac has figured out how to compete through inevitable injuries, and now wins close games as opposed to losing them like every other losing team does. Again... I don't think Zac is terrible, but you admitted he was woefully inexperienced, and it showed... For quite awhile.

I guess Joey B kinda nipped your analogy in the bud calling unprompted Zac the best head coach in the NFL and great game planning.

(01-14-2023, 07:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: Best in team history? 

No way. Most clutch? Maybe. 88 had a good, clutch squad....I don't remember 81. From then, up until now, we definitely had some defenses that were good at pissing down their legs when we needed them the most. 


Which defense would you take with the game on the line needing a stop....one of Zimmer's, or this current version? I never thought I'd say it, but I'm taking this one. What about you? 

I'd trust this D to make the stop when it's most important. This is a rip the damned ball out of the other team's hand kind of D especially in the 4th quarter. This defense has completely slammed the door shut on several championship caliber teams in the past year and a half.. I don't recall it ever happening like this defense has done it.. Rip the ball out with less than a minute to play? That's some kind of needing a stop and getting it.. 

(01-12-2023, 04:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The trend lately is for teams to be looking for that offensive minded HC, the one who will elevate their team to the level of the Bengals, Bills, Chiefs, Eagles, 49ers, etc.  This could work in our favor, as far as getting at least a few more seasons of fantastic defensive play from Coach Lou.

This. I nearly posted something very similar.

The skillet to excel as a HC is very different than a coordinator too.

I could see Callahan getting a look.

(01-14-2023, 10:19 PM)grampahol Wrote: I'd trust this D to make the stop when it's most important. This is a rip the damned ball out of the other team's hand kind of D especially in the 4th quarter. This defense has completely slammed the door shut on several championship caliber teams in the past year and a half.. I don't recall it ever happening like this defense has done it.. Rip the ball out with less than a minute to play? That's some kind of needing a stop and getting it.. 

Ex---actly gramps.....seems I can't get an answer though, lol. At least you took the plunge mi amigo!

(01-14-2023, 10:02 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I guess Joey B kinda nipped your analogy in the bud calling unprompted Zac the best head coach in the NFL and great game planning.

Well... Joe once said Clyde Edwards -Helaire was the best football player he ever played with too. I feel like a leader is allowed to be hyperbolic from time to time.

We've got a big game tomorrow Coach Taylor... Quit messing around on this message board and get to work.

I'm messing with you. You're a great contributor on here.

(01-15-2023, 12:00 AM)jason Wrote: Well... Joe once said Clyde Edwards -Helaire was the best football player he ever played with too. I feel like a leader is allowed to be hyperbolic from time to time.

We've got a big game tomorrow Coach Taylor... Quit messing around on this message board and get to work.

I'm messing with you. You're a great contributor on here.

Sounds good

(01-14-2023, 09:43 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Yeah, I think it's ridiculous to even hint that he's better than LeBeau. I wouldn't say he's better than Zim in most aspects, but some he is. He's a master of the adjustment for one thing. Zimmer I didn't think was good at that. Lou's squad is very clutch, disciplined in the scheme, and fundamentally sound. They're mentally tough. Zims units were lacking in all of that often. Especially in big games. That's my argument.

That said, game on the line, who's unit you taking? I haven't gotten an answer from you or Leonard yet....lol.

Recency bias would have me say this defense... We can all fall victim to that. For about a calendar year now they always seem to pull something out when it's most needed. I was younger, but I still remember the Fulcher interception in the end zone though. Zimmer's teams pulled it off too... Pacman picking Brady in the monsoon. Everything leading up to the Steelers meltdown in 2015 (loose cannons for sure). Dre picking off Manning on Monday night (I know that was Guenther, but that was Zimmer light)...

Statically those were better defenses, but Lou is great at adjusting, and I like this team. January Jesse is about to show up tomorrow too...

No mention of Lou so far:

https://www.nfl.com/news/examining-where-all-five-head-coach-searches-stand-entering-super-wild-card-week

That could still change.

(01-15-2023, 12:09 AM)jason Wrote: Recency bias would have me say this defense... We can all fall victim to that. For about a calendar year now they always seem to pull something out when it's most needed. I was younger, but I still remember the Fulcher interception in the end zone though. Zimmer's teams pulled it off too... Pacman picking Brady in the monsoon. Everything leading up to the Steelers meltdown in 2015 (loose cannons for sure). Dre picking off Manning on Monday night (I know that was Guenther, but that was Zimmer light)...

Statically those were better defenses, but Lou is great at adjusting, and I like this team. January Jesse is about to show up tomorrow too...

Let's face it too...from a personnel standpoint this is the best defense we've had. There are a bunch of good players.

And we have an elite offense which helps a defense out.

(01-15-2023, 01:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Let's face it too...from a personnel standpoint this is the best defense we've had. There are a bunch of good players.

And we have an elite offense which helps a defense out.

But were they? The Saints let Hendrickson walk. His best year was as a Bengal. D J Reader’s best year was as a Bengals. B J Hill was a reserve. Logan Wilson was a third rounder. Pratt has developed. Hilton the Steelers let walk and his best year? As a Bengal. Apple and Awouzie best years? As Bengals. This defense has been developed and drafted and secured through FA. The offense got there with high draft choices so it had a leg up.

The defense that’s evolved was hard work and frankly impressive. Lou deserves a lot of credit for definitely being the architect and engineer

(01-15-2023, 04:45 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: But were they? The Saints let Hendrickson walk. His best year was as a Bengal. D J Reader’s best year was as a Bengals. B J Hill was a reserve. Logan Wilson was a third rounder. Pratt has developed. Hilton the Steelers let walk and his best year? As a Bengal. Apple and Awouzie best years? As Bengals. This defense has been developed and drafted and secured through FA. The offense got there with high draft choices so it had a leg up.

The defense that’s evolved was hard work and frankly impressive. Lou deserves a lot of credit for definitely being the architect and engineer

DJ Reader's career high sacks, tackles, TFL, and QB Hits all came as a Texan.
Hilton's career high INT, PDef, Sacks, TFL, QB Hits, and lowest QB Rating allowed in coverage all came as a Steeler.

I like how you keep saying "let" them walk, as some kind of proof against them, as if there's not a salary cap and free will. 

(01-15-2023, 05:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: DJ Reader's career high sacks, tackles, TFL, and QB Hits all came as a Texan.
Hilton's career high INT, PDef, Sacks, TFL, QB Hits, and lowest QB Rating allowed in coverage all came as a Steeler.

I like how you keep saying "let" them walk, as some kind of proof against them, as if there's not a salary cap and free will. 

I can only laugh. Hilton and Reader have been better as Bengals.

(01-15-2023, 04:45 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: But were they? The Saints let Hendrickson walk. His best year was as a Bengal. D J Reader’s best year was as a Bengals. B J Hill was a reserve. Logan Wilson was a third rounder. Pratt has developed. Hilton the Steelers let walk and his best year? As a Bengal. Apple and Awouzie best years? As Bengals. This defense has been developed and drafted and secured through FA. The offense got there with high draft choices so it had a leg up.

The defense that’s evolved was hard work and frankly impressive. Lou deserves a lot of credit for definitely being the architect and engineer

Reader was widely considered the best DT in football when we signed him.

Hendrickson? He had 1 great year with the Saints with 13.5 sacks then was a free agent. His contract with the Bengals left some room for the Bengals to get out if he flopped.

Apple has played very well here. Same with Hill.

And yes Wilson and Pratt developed nicely.

Saying this is a very talented defense from a personnel standpoint isn't a slight. Lou comes up with very good gameplans too. Innovative.

But, if you put those gameplans to work with a defense with poor personnel, they likely fail.

(01-15-2023, 05:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Reader was widely considered the best DT in football when we signed him.

Hendrickson? He had 1 great year with the Saints with 13.5 sacks then was a free agent. His contract with the Bengals left some room for the Bengals to get out if he flopped.

Apple has played very well here. Same with Hill.

And yes Wilson and Pratt developed nicely.

Saying this is a very talented defense from a personnel standpoint isn't a slight. Lou comes up with very good gameplans too. Innovative.

But, if you put those gameplans to work with a defense with poor personnel, they likely fail.

My point is that the defense was a great job. It’s not like we signed or traded for a Roqain Smith, Von Millers, or even got a Myles Garrett via the draft. There were no shortcuts or built in advantages. Lou deserves a lot of credit. I know the coaches are really involved in FA and the draft.

(01-15-2023, 12:09 AM)jason Wrote: Recency bias would have me say this defense... We can all fall victim to that. For about a calendar year now they always seem to pull something out when it's most needed. I was younger, but I still remember the Fulcher interception in the end zone though. Zimmer's teams pulled it off too... Pacman picking Brady in the monsoon. Everything leading up to the Steelers meltdown in 2015 (loose cannons for sure). Dre picking off Manning on Monday night (I know that was Guenther, but that was Zimmer light)...

Statically those were better defenses, but Lou is great at adjusting, and I like this team. January Jesse is about to show up tomorrow too...

As I noted somewhere in all of this ....I consider this unit to be the best since the 88 squad. Zimmer's defense was awesome in the regular season and dogshit in the playoffs. Remember Owen Daniel running all over us? How about Danny "Bound for Canton" Woodhead? They pissed down their legs.

So, for me, I'm taking the defense that picked off Derek Carr and Patrick Mahommes in the playoffs....not to mention the regular season heroics. 

Is that a yes for you too then? 

(01-15-2023, 05:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: DJ Reader's career high sacks, tackles, TFL, and QB Hits all came as a Texan.
Hilton's career high INT, PDef, Sacks, TFL, QB Hits, and lowest QB Rating allowed in coverage all came as a Steeler.

I like how you keep saying "let" them walk, as some kind of proof against them, as if there's not a salary cap and free will. 

Who you taking needing a stop to seal a win in the playoffs.... Zimmer's defense, or the current iteration? 

(01-15-2023, 09:19 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: As I noted somewhere in all of this ....I consider this unit to be the best since the 88 squad. Zimmer's defense was awesome in the regular season and dogshit in the playoffs. Remember Owen Daniel running all over us? How about Danny "Bound for Canton" Woodhead? How about coughing up the lead after Palmer got hurt? They pissed down their legs.

So, for me, I'm taking the defense that picked off Derek Carr and Patrick Mahommes in the playoffs....not to mention the regular season heroics. 

Is that a yes for you too then? 

Yep... Can't teach clutch.

(01-15-2023, 09:23 PM)jason Wrote: Yep... Can't teach clutch.

You can put people in the right position to be clutch though..... and use journalistic jargons to help win games.