(01-22-2023, 10:20 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I think you’d better stick around for your punishment as it’s coming in avalanches as we continue. I know a player on the team and their confidence in Zac is sky high.

I don't feel like I'm being punished here, I just happen to think ZT is a good coach and Joe Burrow is a football god.

If they're both gods then I want Bellichick/Brady results.  If Burrow's confidence in ZT is sky high, then no Bengals fan is going to be punished in the next 15 years, right?

(01-22-2023, 10:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I kinda feel like you're making this up. 

I'm not.  I admit I was in the camp that ZT couldn't possibly do worse than Marvin's corpse with the Dalton-era roster...but there was certainly a narrative that ZT was going to fix Dalton and Ross.  I bought into it, to an extent.

I'll just reiterate that Burrow and ZT are like Simon and Garfunkel or Hall and Oates.  Sure, Garfunkel and Oates aren't Simon and Hall, but the magic just wouldn't be there without them.

(01-22-2023, 10:25 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't feel like I'm being punished here, I just happen to think ZT is a good coach and Joe Burrow is a football god.

If they're both gods then I want Bellichick/Brady results.  If Burrow's confidence in ZT is sky high, then no Bengals fan is going to be punished in the next 15 years, right?

Whatever… Taylor “ luckiest coach alive” “stunk like a fox”

(01-22-2023, 10:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not.  I admit I was in the camp that ZT couldn't possibly do worse than Marvin's corpse with the Dalton-era roster...but there was certainly a narrative that ZT was going to fix Dalton and Ross.  I bought into it, to an extent.

I'll just reiterate that Burrow and ZT are like Simon and Garfunkel or Hall and Oates.  Sure, Garfunkel and Oates aren't Simon and Hall, but the magic just wouldn't be there without them.

Warmer

(01-22-2023, 10:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: ZT is awesome....I just don't really want to see this franchise without Joe Burrow under center ever again.

I will say that when Burrow retires, I will be optimistic that ZT can find success with the next QB we have.  I'm 41 now, and ZT is probably going to be here until I'm in a nursing home, anyways. 

LoL, I wouldn't call him awesome....but he's certainly better than he gets credit for from our own fanbase. The social media takes by some of our fans regarding him are ridiculous.

I agree about Joe Burrow 100 percent, but it's ok to say we have an elite QB and a good coach that understands that fully and has a lot of faith in him to execute his offense. The play with the Chase decoy today was brilliant. To your point, if you don't have smart players that can sell that decoy, then Hurst probably isn't wide open for a TD. People bitched all year about those Chase sweeps. How many times today did we see them fake the sweep, even with Ja'Marr in motion behind the QB a few times, and get nice gains out of it? They'd been setting that up all year. These coaches are smart and patient enough to play the long game. Average fans don't get that nuanced into the totality of the season.

Joe is definitely the main cog in the machine, no question. However, when we talk about the future and developing players, I think they've already proven they can coach guys up. Trenton Irwin, Perine balling while Mixon was out. CTB thrust into action, Awuzie, BJ Hill, and Apple have had a career renaissance here. We threw three backups and a rookie out there on the oline today with absolutely no dropoff. In a divisional round playoff game, no less. Mitch Wilcox was solid in relief of Hurst earlier on. Tufele, Sample, others have stepped in and stepped up at times when guys were dinged up. They've developed Logan Wilson, Germaine Pratt, Ossai, etc. 

Let's not pretend that these guys are the greatest coaches ever singularly, but together as a staff, they're dynamite. Zac continues to grow each week, and could wind up an all time great, who knows. One thing he has done is instill a quiet confidence as a coach and his players feed off of it. Even when he was losing, he never changed demeanor or abandoned his vision. He has definitely rewarded the FOs patience. 

I think the talk of him unleashing the fury of an aging and lazy Marvin Lewis roster was optimistic to say the least.(one current player mentioned the laziness that permeating the team when he arrived, Boyd maybe?) After it was obvious that the roster needed flipped, they did it in two short years. They're a year ahead of what I thought would be realistic expectations regarding the rebuild. 

(01-22-2023, 10:12 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: To be fair, they've grown a lot over the past two years. When they first got here, they were far from where they are now. 

Yeah, but when he got here he layed out his vision and his plan and hasn't deviated from it

(01-22-2023, 10:35 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Whatever… Taylor “ luckiest coach alive” “stunk like a fox”

Burrow is the best QB to come along in 25 years and we managed to be the only team to take him (not like Allen, or Rodgers, or Ben, or Brady or Montana or Marino or every other QB that other teams had the chance to grab but didn't) despite having the best HC in the NFL running our team.

That's luck...but it's all good because we are making the most out of that luck.  It takes a combo of talent, coaching, and luck to make a dynasty and as far as I see it, we have the trifecta.  I'm open to the idea that ZT is the best HC in the league, that's fine, that's great.

And yes, ZT is lucky to have Burrow.  Bellichick was lucky to have Brady, Phil Jackson was lucky Portlant passed on Jordan, the Steelers are lucky the Browns took a TE instead of Ben, and we are lucky the Steelers passed on Marino, too.  Luck is nice, but it's what you do with that luck that makes a dynasty.


If I accept that ZT is an elite coach, then I have to admit that we are insanely lucky that we had the chance to draft Burrow while the rest of the NFL didn't.

(01-22-2023, 10:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: In my defense, I was skeptical of ZT when his biggest supporters were telling me he was going to come in here and get Dalton back to 2015 form and finally unlock John Ross' elite potential.

All I'm saying is that ZT is like a guy who won the lottery but responded by making wise investments and sound decisions with his fortunes.  I just don't see the Bengals going to the SB two years in a row if we have Tua or Jimmy G under center.  Call me a Burrow fanboy, but the guy is the tide that raises all boats.

I think ZT is Chuck Noll.  He got the job with a crap franchise, they stunk and got high picks while he learned, he won a lot with an elite roster, and then once that elite roster retired he seemed to lose the magic.  We'll see how much of that path ZT takes, but right now we are in the best part of the plan.

As long as Burrow is here we are a championship team, so yea we may as well declare ZT the best coach in the league.  As long as we don't let our roster slide because we can coach up lesser players, I'm fine with whatever spin we want to put on it.

I don't remember anyone saying anything like that. I also don't think the OP was calling Zac the best HC, but the staff from top to bottpm was overall the best. I agree with him. Look at how our depth  has played, that position coaching there. Thats also go drafting and FA scouting.

(01-22-2023, 10:46 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I don't remember anyone saying anything like that. I also don't think the OP was calling Zac the best HC, but the staff from top to bottpm was overall the best. I agree with him. Look at how our depth  has played, that position coaching there. Thats also go drafting and FA scouting.

Well, logic says when you want to fire the whole team it's the HC's fault, so when you love the whole team and everyhing seems to be aces, I guess that's on the HC, too.

We're likely to lose Callahan and Lou eventually, but by that point ZT is going to have one of the best resumes in the NFL, so the odds of this coaching staff being anything but top tier any time soon is remote.

And in all fairness, Fred was the one to compare ZT to Chuck Noll after the first two years and prior to our championship runs, so hats off to him for seeing that.  I legit think we are right now where the Steelers were prior to their 70's dynasty.  But like us, that dynasty doesn't start without ol' Chuck doing a lot of losing first.

(01-22-2023, 09:37 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Who's better? Who's got a more complete, better coaching staff? 

I think they have a really good, up and coming staff but i don't think i can call them the best. 

49ers, Chiefs and Eagles are up there. 

(01-22-2023, 10:55 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I think they have a really good, up and coming staff but i don't think i can call them the best. 

49ers, Chiefs and Eagles are up there. 

I mean, the 49ers are doing their damndest to make it to the NFC championship game after spending the entire year with a QB they spent a bunch of picks on on IR and their backup option on IR and a 3rd string rookie QB who was taken dead last in the draft is on a winning streak...team sport and all but man so much goes through the QB.  Brock Purdy leading the 49ers to the promised land is the stuff of absurd Hollywood scripts. 

And, I still think we would have won today, but it's fortunate the Bills didn't trade for McCaffrey and he's in the NFC. 


EDIT - I will say that if Burrow and Brandon Allen were in traction and ZT was tasked with winning it all with (looks up our 3rd string QB) Jake Browning, I'd be all in...house money and all that.

(01-22-2023, 10:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Burrow is the best QB to come along in 25 years and we managed to be the only team to take him (not like Allen, or Rodgers, or Ben, or Brady or Montana or Marino or every other QB that other teams had the chance to grab but didn't) despite having the best HC in the NFL running our team.

That's luck...but it's all good because we are making the most out of that luck.  It takes a combo of talent, coaching, and luck to make a dynasty and as far as I see it, we have the trifecta.  I'm open to the idea that ZT is the best HC in the league, that's fine, that's great.

And yes, ZT is lucky to have Burrow.  Bellichick was lucky to have Brady, Phil Jackson was lucky Portlant passed on Jordan, the Steelers are lucky the Browns took a TE instead of Ben, and we are lucky the Steelers passed on Marino, too.  Luck is nice, but it's what you do with that luck that makes a dynasty.


If I accept that ZT is an elite coach, then I have to admit that we are insanely lucky that we had the chance to draft Burrow while the rest of the NFL didn't.

Coaches success and QB’s go hand in hand. Andy Reid got fired at Philly. He had no QB. His teams before Mahomes? Not so good. It’s a tired argument. They do need each other.

I would be a great coach too if I had a sorcerer as a DC and a superhero for a QB.

(01-22-2023, 11:04 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Coaches success and QB’s go hand in hand. Andy Reid got fired at Philly. He had no QB. His teams before Mahomes? Not so good. It’s a tired argument. They do need each other.

I guess.  I'm just seeing that Mac Jones is no Brady, and Brock Purdy is no season-ending replacement.  In Andy Reid's defense, in KC he had a bust castoff in Alex Smith and Mahommes was a developmental QB that the Browns, Bears, and Bengals passed on despite having reason to look into him.

Andy Reid made helped Alex Smith look like the 1st round pick the 49ers didn't, and he wisely developed Mahommes into what he is today.  Burrow was just an instant franchise changer 1st overall can't miss pick who was even better than advertised.  But like I said, in 15 years we may actually be watching ZT developing a QB who needs to be developed.

Again, we're at the point where we can become the Steelers of the 70s onward.  Between Marvin and ZT we could actually have a grand total of 2 HCs for like 40 years.

I can’t believe there’s still people refusing to give Taylor his credit. You all are weird.

(01-22-2023, 11:18 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I can’t believe there’s still people refusing to give Taylor his credit. You all are weird.

I said he was Art Garfunkel, that's a fair compliment.  Hell, Garfunkel had 2 gold albums and 2 platinum albums on his own.  Your move, ZT!

(01-22-2023, 11:15 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I guess.  I'm just seeing that Mac Jones is no Brady, and Brock Purdy is no season-ending replacement.  In Andy Reid's defense, in KC he had a bust castoff in Alex Smith and Mahommes was a developmental QB that the Browns, Bears, and Bengals passed on despite having reason to look into him.

Andy Reid made helped Alex Smith look like the 1st round pick the 49ers didn't, and he wisely developed Mahommes into what he is today.  Burrow was just an instant franchise changer 1st overall can't miss pick who was even better than advertised.  But like I said, in 15 years we may actually be watching ZT developing a QB who needs to be developed.

Again, we're at the point where we can become the Steelers of the 70s onward.  Between Marvin and ZT we could actually have a grand total of 2 HCs for like 40 years.

The problem is you aren’t knowledgeable enough to know how great of a QB coach Taylor is. On a podcast Sean McVay said he was the best in the NFL. Ryan Tannehill, Jared Goff all praise him. He’s had a huge impact on Joe. Carry on.

(01-22-2023, 11:32 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The problem is you aren’t knowledgeable enough to know how great of a QB coach Taylor is. On a podcast Sean McVay said he was the best in the NFL. Ryan Tannehill, Jared Goff all praise him. He’s had a huge impact on Joe. Carry on.

You may be right.  Just like Paul Simon was more important than Art Garfunkel, but we'll never know if Paul could have made it without him, and Art Garfunkel did sing Bridge Over Troubled Water, after all.

Honestly, I'm a bit off my usual kilter on the subject of ZT because I tend to intentionally pull for the underdog, I'm a Bengals fan from Pittsburgh after all, so the Bengals hiring a QB coach as their HC and him turning the franchise around on a dime, with the help of a lot of luck and Burrow, should really appeal to me.

Ok, I'm on board.  I just hope ZT is around in 15 years to build the next dynasty.  Zac Garfunkel is my man.

(01-22-2023, 10:37 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yeah, but when he got here he layed out his vision and his plan and hasn't deviated from it

Right, he said he wanted to draft and bring in players who were team captains, leaders, and who had been within winning cultures from the get-go.   That's the type of stuff - and players, whom get you those wins in tough situations and environments, and makes up the type of team who can gut out wins amidst adversity.   

(01-22-2023, 11:49 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: Right, he said he wanted to draft and bring in players who were team captains, leaders, and who had been within winning cultures from the get-go.   That's the type of stuff - and players, whom get you those wins in tough situations and environments, and makes up the type of team who can gut out wins amidst adversity.   

Fair enough.  The real test will come when we see how many captains and proven winners we can get when we are picking in the 30s for the next decade. You have to imagine there will be a high demand for those types of players once our secret is out.