(01-18-2023, 06:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: Miami had WR's running wide open all day. If they didn't drop some easy ones, or had someone who wasn't a 3rd string rookie throwing the ball they get torched. The reality is their pass defense isn't good and we should be able to capitalize on this like we were before the game was stopped week 17. Our running game frankly is bad and people want to "establish it" but no one wants to attempt to at 3 yards a touch.

Yep. Hard to establish something you can only do sporadically. Just keep using the short pass and mix in more play action and RPOs. 

Trying to do something you don't do well just to do it is stupid.

(01-18-2023, 07:08 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yep. Hard to establish something you can only do sporadically. Just keep using the short pass and mix in more play action and RPOs. 

Trying to do something you don't do well just to do it is stupid.

This is how Zac has thought since last year. He’s like eff it, Burrow can just throw 50 times.

Personally i don’t think you need 20 rushes to have a run game established.
You can get a D afraid of your run by rushing like 12 times. They’ve just gotta be good runs.

If you run 11 times for 2.9 YPC no one is gonna give af about your run game

(01-18-2023, 06:41 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Am I the only one who thought Mixon had a decent amount of good runs?  Especially on first down. They just didn’t continue to do it. I even commented on game day that the game is a whole lot easier at 2nd and 4 or 5.

I noticed it,  I do not think the run game will be "working" for the Bengals no matter how successful the 10 attempts a game it gets.  I could see throwing on 3rd and 1 even if the RB had 4 previous carries  all going for more than 3 yards. 

They do not want to run.

(01-18-2023, 09:01 PM)M.W. Wrote: I noticed it,  I do not think the run game will be "working" for the Bengals no matter how successful the 10 attempts a game it gets.  I could see throwing on 3rd and 1 even if the RB had 4 previous carries  all going for more than 3 yards. 

They do not want to run.

You are absolutely right. Because of the crap success ( although he didn’t specifically say it) Brian Callahan we aren’t taking the ball out of Joe’s hands.

(01-18-2023, 08:34 PM)Housh Wrote: This is how Zac has thought since last year. He’s like eff it, Burrow can just throw 50 times.

Personally i don’t think you need 20 rushes to have a run game established.
You can get a D afraid of your run by rushing like 12 times. They’ve just gotta be good runs.

If you run 11 times for 2.9 YPC no one is gonna give af about your run game

Right.

I just don't think most teams respect the Bengals run game.

At the least, they are much more concerned by passing and the big play threat there.

The Mixon anomaly game is what it exactly is.  Nobody was fooled by it. 

Injuries or not, the O-line has struggled to make it a consistent tool for our offense.

I agree with what others has posted about sticking to what the Bengals do best, which is passing the ball...  but man, it does suck when those passes fall incomplete(especially 3 and outs).  

They don't burn any clock time when that is something they need in some situations!

(01-17-2023, 10:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree and getting Mixon going with establishing the run would get the line and the entire team fired up by imposing our will.

Unfortunately, I don't think Zac sees that the simplest way to move the ball is the best way to move the ball.

We definitely need to run the ball to control the crowd and the momentum of the game.

I trust Burrow but I'd rather not get into a shootout with Josh Allen in their stadium.

Let's hope that we feed Mixon early and often!

We havent run the ball well recently, but we are really in a difficult position now.

Scharping is not a good run blocker - Cappa was a very good run blocker, same with Adeniji and LC.

Carmen actually is a good run blocker but questionable vs the pass.

It is tough losing the power right side.  Maybe Carmen and Volson can move some bodies?

(01-19-2023, 07:24 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We havent run the ball well recently, but we are really in a difficult position now.

Scharping is not a good run blocker - Cappa was a very good run blocker, same with Adeniji and LC.

Carmen actually is a good run blocker but questionable vs the pass.

It is tough losing the power right side.  Maybe Carmen and Volson can move some bodies?

I've said this before and I know Mixon has historically run better out of the gun, but, with our depleted line, I think we need to give him the ball with Burrow under center this game just so he can hit the hole fast before the defense has a chance to push our line back.

I realize they can still push them back but I just mean giving Mixon the ball while running at near full speed towards the line will give them less chance to react and make the linemen's jobs easier by not making them hold their block for long or get as much of a push.

I think it's necessary to establish the run in Buffalo and that will also open up the play action.

(01-19-2023, 08:24 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I've said this before and I know Mixon has historically run better out of the gun, but, with our depleted line, I think we need to give him the ball with Burrow under center this game just so he can hit the hole fast before the defense has a chance to push our line back.

I realize they can still push them back but I just mean giving Mixon the ball while running at near full speed towards the line will give them less chance to react and make the linemen's jobs easier by not making them hold their block for long or get as much of a push.

I think it's necessary to establish the run in Buffalo and that will also open up the play action.

It makes sense, but if we do that we cant run on every play under center and who knows how much time Burrow will have to pass if he's coming from under center....?

(01-19-2023, 07:24 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We havent run the ball well recently, but we are really in a difficult position now.

Scharping is not a good run blocker - Cappa was a very good run blocker, same with Adeniji and LC.

Carman actually is a good run blocker but questionable vs the pass.

It is tough losing the power right side.  Maybe Carman and Volson can move some bodies?

That is the way I am seeing it now, the sides kind of switched with the new personnel.

Wouldn't surprise me if we got some good runs to the left side in this game. 

(01-18-2023, 07:08 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yep. Hard to establish something you can only do sporadically. Just keep using the short pass and mix in more play action and RPOs. 

Trying to do something you don't do well just to do it is stupid.

It would be incredibly ingenious or catastrophically stupid but they could bring back the gameplan they used against I believe the Jets were they actually ran that 12 personnel wide zone offense undercenter. Heavy wide zone run against those 2 deep safeties rb screens play action when they drop the safety lol. It would protect the offensive line and QB more but they would need to sustain drives and score.

(01-18-2023, 07:08 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Trying to do something you don't do well just to do it is stupid.

So is just completely abandoning the run, which allows your opponent to key on the pass rush.

Besides, you might get "lucky" and break off a couple big runs that would get the defense's attention.

(01-20-2023, 02:56 PM)Synric Wrote: It would be incredibly ingenious or catastrophically stupid but they could bring back the gameplan they used against I believe the Jets were they actually ran that 12 personnel wide zone offense undercenter. Heavy wide zone run against those 2 deep safeties rb screens play action when they drop the safety lol. It would protect the offensive line and QB more but they would need to sustain drives and score.

Nah, stick with what we are good at, Gap scheme with Burrow out of the Shotgun. We can run it well enough to keep the Defense 
honest and use our backs in the passing game as an extension of the run game. This Secondary is not good against the pass and we
are pretty damn good in the short passing game and someone could break free for a big gain at any time in this game. 

The Bills really don't impress me with their tackling.

(01-20-2023, 02:56 PM)Synric Wrote: It would be incredibly ingenious or catastrophically stupid but they could bring back the gameplan they used against I believe the Jets were they actually ran that 12 personnel wide zone offense undercenter. Heavy wide zone run against those 2 deep safeties rb screens play action when they drop the safety lol. It would protect the offensive line and QB more but they would need to sustain drives and score.

Don't let Nate hear you say that! 

Wide zone isn't really the problem, per se. The Bengals overall are a bad blocking team, Oline and WRs. They seem to whiff more than most other teams. Back to the wide zone; it's not like they can't create creases there, it's that Mixon had/has such a bad habit of missing too many holes. Zone runs are a Bengals staple going way back. They've had so many good cutback runners over the years, Mixon just isn't one of them. 

The annoying part is, watch any game and you'll see one or two good runs out of the zone but overall, they're just not a good blocking team, regardless.

(01-20-2023, 03:03 PM)Tomkat Wrote: So is just completely abandoning the run, which allows your opponent to key on the pass rush.

Besides, you might get "lucky" and break off a couple big runs that would get the defense's attention.

Now we're jumping to extremes. No team should ever completely abandon the run, unless you're the Pats playing Pitt...

They need to run better but they don't need to run a lot, if they can't do it well. It just kills drives. 

(01-20-2023, 04:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Don't let Nate hear you say that! 

Wide zone isn't really the problem, per se. The Bengals overall are a bad blocking team, Oline and WRs. They seem to whiff more than most other teams. Back to the wide zone; it's not like they can't create creases there, it's that Mixon had/has such a bad habit of missing too many holes. Zone runs are a Bengals staple going way back. They've had so many good cutback runners over the years, Mixon just isn't one of them. 

The annoying part is, watch any game and you'll see one or two good runs out of the zone but overall, they're just not a good blocking team, regardless.

I was just throwing out there a way to protect the QB a little but they really can't do it because they've been so dangerous just surviving off the perfection of Joe Burrow.

As for the run game it's on the offensive coaches. Fours years now they have installed a run game that has failed in a drastic scale. It's hard to blame the players when it's different players same results.

(01-20-2023, 03:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nah, stick with what we are good at, Gap scheme with Burrow out of the Shotgun. We can run it well enough to keep the Defense 
honest and use our backs in the passing game as an extension of the run game. This Secondary is not good against the pass and we
are pretty damn good in the short passing game and someone could break free for a big gain at any time in this game. 

The Bills really don't impress me with their tackling.

I wouldn't say they're really "good" at anything specifically. Plus, they run a combination of zone, gap and duo schemes. On the year, they ran about 40% zone. 

Start of the year they leaned zone, then they started switching to power 2/1. Against the Ravens, in the season finale they went that way then in the PO game they went 50/50. 

And a little bit of this.

I'll always find a reason to cut up & post a 'wham-bam', or 'crunch' (trap + wham) concept hitting. Cool to see it from the Bengals too pic.twitter.com/vALgQNd7t7

— Brandon Thorn (@BrandonThornNFL) December 7, 2022

 

Bengals just ran Crunch (Influence Wham) for a big gain. Great auxiliary run scheme! pic.twitter.com/sHc0Yc1gTU

— James Light (@JamesALight) January 16, 2023

 

(01-20-2023, 05:11 PM)Synric Wrote: I was just throwing out there a way to protect the QB a little but they really can't do it because they've been so dangerous just surviving off the perfection of Joe Burrow.

As for the run game it's on the offensive coaches. Fours years now they have installed a run game that has failed in a drastic scale. It's hard to blame the players when it's different players same results.

Tru.

If they could just find ONE thing they're good at, run it into the ground. Anything that takes some focus away from Burrow is a good thing.

(01-20-2023, 05:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: They need to run better but they don't need to run a lot, if they can't do it well. It just kills drives. 

Fair enough.

(01-20-2023, 04:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Don't let Nate hear you say that! 

Wide zone isn't really the problem, per se. The Bengals overall are a bad blocking team, Oline and WRs. They seem to whiff more than most other teams. Back to the wide zone; it's not like they can't create creases there, it's that Mixon had/has such a bad habit of missing too many holes. Zone runs are a Bengals staple going way back. They've had so many good cutback runners over the years, Mixon just isn't one of them. 

The annoying part is, watch any game and you'll see one or two good runs out of the zone but overall, they're just not a good blocking team, regardless.

Lol, I just remember the wide zone early in the season and it clearly didn't fit our personnel or Mixon.

I don't see the 3 backups being wide zone players either. Honestly, I have been pretty disappointed in Pollack and the OL coaches 
in a way, but hey when you lose that many guys and the backup plays good enough to give you a chance that isn't all bad.

(01-20-2023, 05:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Now we're jumping to extremes. No team should ever completely abandon the run, unless you're the Pats playing Pitt...

They need to run better but they don't need to run a lot, if they can't do it well. It just kills drives. 

Completely agree there.

(01-20-2023, 05:11 PM)Synric Wrote: I was just throwing out there a way to protect the QB a little but they really can't do it because they've been so dangerous just surviving off the perfection of Joe Burrow.

As for the run game it's on the offensive coaches. Fours years now they have installed a run game that has failed in a drastic scale. It's hard to blame the players when it's different players same results.

Definitely need to look at some new run game coaching hires in the Offseason.

(01-20-2023, 05:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I wouldn't say they're really "good" at anything specifically. Plus, they run a combination of zone, gap and duo schemes. On the year, they ran about 40% zone. 

Start of the year they leaned zone, then they started switching to power 2/1. Against the Ravens, in the season finale they went that way then in the PO game they went 50/50. 

And a little bit of this.

I'll always find a reason to cut up & post a 'wham-bam', or 'crunch' (trap + wham) concept hitting. Cool to see it from the Bengals too pic.twitter.com/vALgQNd7t7

— Brandon Thorn (@BrandonThornNFL) December 7, 2022

 

Bengals just ran Crunch (Influence Wham) for a big gain. Great auxiliary run scheme! pic.twitter.com/sHc0Yc1gTU

— James Light (@JamesALight) January 16, 2023

 

Nice post and interesting Rfaulk. Just seems when they play the Gap scheme the players all seem to play better and the Offense 
over all is better than the Wide Zone. Interesting to see them run such a wide array of schemes. Like Synric said, if all the players 
are struggling it has to be on the coaches in the run game. But the most important task is always protecting Burrow so I understand
what he was getting at as always. Synric is one of the best football minds here, him and Au165.

(01-17-2023, 09:31 PM)Housh Wrote: I saw somewhere that said the Ravens ran ZERO defensive snaps where both safeties werent deep. I find that very hard to believe but im not about to pay 10$ just to rewatch a game with NFL+ so im going to just ASSUME the real number is at least 75% of the snaps.


If the Bills do this to us, we HAVE to run the ball. As I look at this game's matchups I see no world in which we win with Mixon getting 11 carries for 39 yards. (3.5 YPC). Playing the Ravens twice before I think helped Burrow more than it hurt. Burrow is known to do very well against teams hes seen before. I dont want to say this is why we won, but its a part. We only have 1 quarter of Bills tape and I dont see us jumping them like we did at Paycor again.

Theoretically a team should not be able to park 2 safeties deep for that many plays. Theoretically, you should get them out of that defense after a few decent gains on the ground. But if those gains never come we get what we saw Sunday. Zac and Callahan are pass game aces, but we are gonna need them to be a complete offensive coaches on Sunday. Im talkin jet sweeps, runs from shotgun, HB screens EVERYTHING. We absolutely need the run game to put in 70+ yards this Sunday. We cannot allow the Bills to comfortably sit their 2 safeties back all game. We cant ask Burrow to be the whole offense. Guys gotta step up.

I said 70 yards and they gave us like 170 yards on the ground.

Insane.


The crazy part is the Bills we’re so bad i think we still had a chance even if it were a 2 YPC day on the ground


The Bills played way more aggressive than i thought they would. There is no reason a team with Josh Allen and the backs they’ve got only runs 19 times. Mixon by himself rushed 20 times.


Also this was Mixon’s second best game of the season. He was hitting holes and getting 2-3 extra yards after every first contact he took. Insane