(01-26-2023, 09:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: ZT is a second banana for sure, but that's hardly the end of the world.  I've compared Burrow & Taylor to Hall & Oates, or Simon & Garfunkel, or the rest of the Beatles & Ringo.  Oates/Garfunkel/Ringo can always be the butt of jokes because they aren't Hall/Simon/Paul-John-George, but the fact is that they we part of something huge, they've seen the top of the mountain, and their biggest sin is not being on the level of the main guy.

With that being said, I do think Burrow is so good that it'll be hard to evaluate damn near anyone.  We will see how long we can keep this band together, but I have a suspicion some of our players who take big bucks to go to middling or bottom-tier NFL teams are going to suspiciously return to earth a bit.  It's all good, Burrow can get his teammates paid and he can elevate the FAs that come in.

As for ZT?  Well, as long as Burrow keeps telling people that he's the best coach on earth and they collect championships, he'll be collecting awards and laughing all the way to the bank like John Oates.

Great post and I agree with the comparison. Like I said, sometimes the star just gets so bright, it's all people see or talk about.

Speaking of Ringo, my Wife was watching that awesome Beatles doc (which I also watched a good bit of), and that part where Paul and Linda were holding hands in the studio, and Ringo casually put his hand on top of theirs with that goofy look on his face had me rolling.

Also, I agree that Joe being so good makes it hard to evaluate *some* of our guys, but I think it's safe to say some of them were just underrated signings or picks that we hit on. Hendrickson and Reader were great elsewhere. Our receivers are all good to great but do benefit.

Our corners were good scheme fits, but might struggle to replicate this success elsewhere.

(01-26-2023, 03:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Every Bengals fan loves Joe and that includes me. I have a Burrow SB jersey that I got a couple weeks after the game. It was the first jersey I've purchased since I took a gamble on an Odell Thurman jersey on clearance in 2007.

I'm a Bengals fan. So Joe Burrow is my dude.

Joe is currently leading the best stretch of football in team history and it's only going to get better. As the wins and accolades start to compile, Joe's star will get bigger and bigger and it's gravity will increase.

Last year I saw a guy say Joe makes everyone better. Ok, no problems there, right? Another guy says our defense was/is a bunch of nobodies really, and Joe has elevated our defense to playing at an elite level.

That's where I draw the line.

What I'm driving at is this: Once a player's star gets this big or bigger, the praise almost starts to border on worship. Logical takes like great QBs make everyone better get amplified.

Poor Zac Taylor will never get any credit from the national media or even many of us, bc he didn't win while rebuilding this team for only 2 years. Every coach will be a product of Joe. Every good performance a product of Joe.

It reminds me a lot of Tom Brady. People always talked like he won without help, but if you go through each year he got a ring, you always see a top 8 defense. You always saw names like Gronk, Edelman, Dillon, Wilfork, Samuel, Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, etc. Great o-lines.

I also wonder if any Pats fans ever reminisce about their SB losers in 1985 and 1996. Is Bledsoe just a footnote in the history of Brady? I don't want to see that happen with our good old teams if/when we win one.

I also want to see all of our current good players get all the credit they deserve. Not just here, but in the national media, where I rarely hear anyone sing the praises of Trey Hendrickson or DJ Reader.

Zac Taylor is an afterthought despite helping to change the culture and finding a diamond like Lou. Mike Brown is still a cheap skate despite being aggressive in FA and building a practice bubble.

If you made it to the end of this, thanks for reading, and I appreciate your thoughts.

The defense has won many of the playoff games. I'd argue that the Bills win was a complete game.

(01-26-2023, 06:22 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I tell you what, I Googled to find out, and what I found is kind of scary for them. He and his girlfriend both need to get off Social Media, there are a slew of unhinged, and I mean UNHINGED, women coming after him and sending her not so nice messages. I sincerely hope they are traveling with bodyguards. 

His woman isn't a celebrity, and I think some women resent that or think if a "normal" girl can get him, maybe they can. I think it shows that Joe is grounded. I respect it quite a bit.

(01-26-2023, 10:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Great post and I agree with the comparison. Like I said, sometimes the star just gets so bright, it's all people see or talk about.

Well, I figured ZT was more of an Andrew Ridgely type than any of the noteworthy second bananas, but I see better than I hear so color me enlightened.

(01-26-2023, 03:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Poor Zac Taylor will never get any credit from the national media or even many of us, bc he didn't win while rebuilding this team for only 2 years.

There's rebuilding, and then there's going 4-17 without Burrow. If he had gone even 8-13 without Burrow he'd probably get more credit.

Lets put it in these terms. Zac Taylor's winning % without Burrow is worse than Hue Jackson's winning % as a HC. That's not me burying Zac, but just pointing out the reality that when that's the case, you aren't giving a ton of reason to believe otherwise.

(01-26-2023, 10:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's rebuilding, and then there's going 4-17 without Burrow. If he had gone even 8-13 without Burrow he'd probably get more credit.

Lets put it in these terms. Zac Taylor's winning % without Burrow is worse than Hue Jackson's winning % as a HC. That's not me burying Zac, but just pointing out the reality that when that's the case, you aren't giving a ton of reason to believe otherwise.

True. But I think the coaches improved a lot. It's really impossible to say though.

Very few college qbs come in and dominate the nfl with bad coaches. We're loaded at wr too though. Say we didn't have Chase...and had an aging AJ Green, is Burrow this great? It's hard to separate things.

(01-26-2023, 10:32 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: True. But I think the coaches improved a lot. It's really impossible to say though.

I'm of the mind that ZT is better NOW than the first two seasons and his record sans Burrow would indicate.  With that being said, I think every Bengals fan and ZT himself would prefer we never have to see what he can do without Burrow again to test how much he's improved.

(01-26-2023, 10:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's rebuilding, and then there's going 4-17 without Burrow. If he had gone even 8-13 without Burrow he'd probably get more credit.

Lordy, if ZT goes 8-13 without Burrow we never get Burrow and we're currently wondering what to do with Tua.

(01-26-2023, 06:58 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I don't really pay attention to celebrities personal lives but I bet it is pretty typical for them to have all kinds of crazy people on their social media and elsewhere.  Probably goes with the territory and something celebs have to learn to deal with.  Not saying that it's right for people to treat them that way though. I imagine they and many other celebrities as well as a lot of very high paid people do have people hired to look out for that kind of stuff. 

meh..The term GROUPIE has been around for quite some time. It's not like Joe is the Beatles, Elvis and Frank Sinatra all rolled into one.. 

Legends overshadow even the Greats.

(01-26-2023, 04:30 PM)PDub80 Wrote: ZT and the Bengals coaches get plenty of positive run in the media.

And the defense WAS. bunch of nobodies. DJ Reader even pointed out a really cool fact: Only 1 first rounder gets meankngful snaps on D.... And, if I recall, not 1 guy on the Bengals D got a 2nd contract from the team that they were first with.

^ That = nobodies, in general. But now.... NOW they're all somebodies. And it's awesome to see.

The HC, DC, OC, & assistants are highly thought of.

Sorry, my man, I just don't agree with the side of the fence you're falling on here. The entire org has done an A+ job with the turn around since ZT was hired.

Let's not get too carried away with the "nobodies"

Trey Hendrickson wasn't a nobody and he might not have gotten a 2nd deal from the Saints, we gave him a huge deal
DJ Reader wasn't a nobody and he was ready to sign a huge deal with Denver until we snared him.  
Awuzie was a nice get as was Von Bell.

Bates was always considered a great safety.

What's shocking is that the only 1st rounder is Eli Apple.  And he seems to have found his niche here.  

(01-26-2023, 04:12 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Not sure it was the same guy, but I heard someone the other day on Sirius NFL saying the same thing, that Joe makes the defense better. But, he went on to explain it in that the defense can play loose knowing Joe is going to ball out and if they make a mistake on D, Joe will score when they get teh ball back to him. It lets them play faster and looser than if they were worried about messing up and letting the other team score. I think there is some validity in that.

Partially….I listened to a podcast and they said the intelligence level of the defense is ridiculous. They quoted a player and he said it has allowed Lou to have a ton of schemes that they don’t forget and don’t get confused. They know them and can execute them. It also gives them an ability to make major adjustments the second half when most teams can’t go that far.

And I hear it’s part of the drafting and free agent focus of requiring very intelligent players

(01-26-2023, 06:22 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I tell you what, I Googled to find out, and what I found is kind of scary for them. He and his girlfriend both need to get off Social Media, there are a slew of unhinged, and I mean UNHINGED, women coming after him and sending her not so nice messages. I sincerely hope they are traveling with bodyguards. 

(01-26-2023, 06:58 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I don't really pay attention to celebrities personal lives but I bet it is pretty typical for them to have all kinds of crazy people on their social media and elsewhere.  Probably goes with the territory and something celebs have to learn to deal with.  Not saying that it's right for people to treat them that way though. I imagine they and many other celebrities as well as a lot of very high paid people do have people hired to look out for that kind of stuff. 

Yeah, he hasn't broken up with Liv.

As I mentioned earlier this year, ever since 2020, EVERY time Liv is shown on TV or something, she is with Burrow's parents.

If they spend that much time together, I can assure you that they are VERY serious and grounded.

I think they're fine too: as mentioned, surely the team has measures in place for situations like this, otherwise you would hear about stalkers all the time.

I don't remember EVER hearing about an athlete in any major NA sport, get stalked.

Before i clicked, i figured this was a rant about how you couldn't have his babies and i wasn't far off

Nah nothing about Joey B I can resent.

(01-26-2023, 11:19 PM)grampahol Wrote: meh..The term GROUPIE has been around for quite some time. It's not like Joe is the Beatles, Elvis and Frank Sinatra all rolled into one.. 

I used the word UNHINGED because there's some really creepy stuff...

https://www.tiktok.com/@relyuhcs/video/7191936209558506798


You don't have to be John Lennon to get shot in the face, it happens to B list celebs as well. All I'm saying is I hope he is taking precautions with himself and with her. 

I don’t know that I can say I “resent”, anything about Burrow, the team, etc.

I’m glad he’s our QB. Personally, I’ve never seen one person/player who reinvented an NFL team as well, as thoroughly and as positively as Burrow has. And, to do it in such a short length of time is nothing short of a miracle. He’s better than Kenny Anderson. He’s better than Boomer. He’s better than Carson. Yeah, some of those guys may have had one or two traits that are better than Burrow. But, as a leader, a complete QB, Burrow wins the crown. So, no resentment there.

If the defense has to practice against the likes of Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon etc, of course it will make them a better defense.

As far as Taylor? I’d say half the NFL (if not more) would put him on their short list for a HC position if he were to become available for some crazy reason. I just rewatched his interview with Tony Dungee from the end of last season (not sure when it was filmed). He embodies the professionalism, the tough “paid my dues”, the football mind, and the creativeness that the Brown family cherishes. Now, looking back, it’s easier to see and understand what they were doing. He made it clear the direction he wanted the team to go (and nowhere did he ever mention guys like Dalton, AJ Green, etc). He wanted leaders on the team when he first got here and mentioned Pratt, Bates, Mixon, Boyd, by name.

This quote by Pollack kind of sums it all up…

"That's the story of the NFL," Pollack said Wednesday. "They want drama. We're in the world of 24-hour news cycle, drama, reality TV. All this garbage that promotes all that. But it gets the ratings, it gets the eyeballs and that's all good for the league from a business perspective. But for the team, you have to tune out the noise. It's all garbage, it's crap. You've got to tune it out, stay focused and all that matters is the men in the locker room.“

(01-27-2023, 11:06 AM)Graphicguy Wrote: I don’t know that I can say I “resent”, anything about Burrow, the team, etc.

I’m glad he’s our QB. Personally, I’ve never seen one person/player who reinvented an NFL team as well, as thoroughly and as positively as Burrow has. And, to do it in such a short length of time is nothing short of a miracle. He’s better than Kenny Anderson. He’s better than Boomer. He’s better than Carson. Yeah, some of those guys may have had one or two traits that are better than Burrow. But, as a leader, a complete QB, Burrow wins the crown. So, no resentment there.

If the defense has to practice against the likes of Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon etc, of course it will make them a better defense.

As far as Taylor? I’d say half the NFL (if not more) would put him on their short list for a HC position if he were to become available for some crazy reason. I just rewatched his interview with Tony Dungee from the end of last season (not sure when it was filmed). He embodies the professionalism, the tough “paid my dues”, the football mind, and the creativeness that the Brown family cherishes. Now, looking back, it’s easier to see and understand what they were doing. He made it clear the direction he wanted the team to go (and nowhere did he ever mention guys like Dalton, AJ Green, etc). He wanted leaders on the team when he first got here and mentioned Pratt, Bates, Mixon, Boyd, by name.

His vision and plan had Arizona heavily interested and Denver as well but Denver had a lot of stipulations. The Browns history of loyalty and the fact he and his wife loved the city turned him to Cincy.

(01-26-2023, 06:22 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I tell you what, I Googled to find out, and what I found is kind of scary for them. He and his girlfriend both need to get off Social Media, there are a slew of unhinged, and I mean UNHINGED, women coming after him and sending her not so nice messages. I sincerely hope they are traveling with bodyguards. 

Some women are trashy like that. Wanna try to steal Joe away from her just so they feel better about themselves with no concern of who is hurt along the way. Too many men fall for that garbage. Also, his money is just as big if not a bigger motivator as well. 

(01-27-2023, 11:43 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: His vision and plan had Arizona heavily interested and Denver as well but Denver had a lot of stipulations. The Browns history of loyalty and the fact he and his wife loved the city turned him to Cincy.

Yeah…he mentioned he had been courted by other teams, although during the interview he didn’t mention who they were. And yes, he said his wife loves (loved?) Cincinnati from their time here before UC fired him. You would think that would have left them with a bad taste.

But, he said his wife made a lot of friends in that 9 month period in Cincinnati. Given they were in LA for 2 years, that’s pretty telling.

It was good revisiting that interview. It gave insight to how this all transpired and how we are where we are today. He said he was fired from UC via text while he was watching a Bengals game at PBS (now Paycor).

He said it happened pretty quickly. While he was still in LA, there was some sort of what he called a “slip” that coaches are given telling them who wants to interview them and for what positions. He interviewed but had to make his mind up quickly because once you linger, NFL teams move on to their next candidates pretty quickly. He said he accepted the Bengals job immediately because of the reputation of the Brown family for being loyal, patient (he knew the turnaround was going to take a bit), and honest. Plus, as mentioned, his wife loved it here.

I think he said it was a round table discussion interview with Mike Brown, his brother, Katie, her husband, and Duke Tobin. Who knows what they spoke about. But, I can imagine it was a look into the future without Dalton and/or AJ Green, as well as some of the others from the previous “regime’”. I doubt they had any inkling Burrow would have turned into the #1 pick at that time as the incredible season he had at LSU hadn’t happened yet. But, he knew there would be some incredible QB talent coming out of that class….Tua, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, etc.

I remember being in Miami the summer before that draft. I had an UBER pick up me and my GF to take us to the cruise terminal. That was when the “Tank for Tua” was at its height. And, the debate was raging about Sewell vs Burrow here. UBER driver was a huge Dolphins fan and a Tua fan. Telling him I was from Cincinnati, he wondered if we would draft Tua or Joe or Sewell. Told him I’d rather have Joe. He disagreed and wanted Tua.

The rest, as they say, is history.