(02-13-2023, 12:29 AM)Nepa Wrote: Good one. 

No need for full time officials. Just let the middle school principals and insurance salesmen call these Billion-dollar games. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/heres-how-much-money-nfl-officials-make-working-games

I didn't realize they didn't get insurance.  I'm all for a higher standard and incentive to be good at what you do.  This would be a good time for them to strike.

The NFL is going down the toilet (in quality) just like the NBA. Just for different reasons (mostly). It's tough to watch. It seems integrity isn't valued in any league anymore.

(02-13-2023, 12:52 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The NFL is going down the toilet (in quality) just like the NBA. Just for different reasons (mostly). It's tough to watch. It seems integrity isn't valued in any league anymore.

Yeah I'm glad that Roger has to see and hear reality no matter if he doesn't want to look at it. 

I stepped away from post AFC championship loss convos because I was pretty over it but life goes on.  You always want to be one or two plays better that the other team so refs can't decide the game no matter accidentally or intentionally.  

It brought me back to a weird place that wasn't a high or low that you sit in, but a realization.  It was game 4 of the Lakers/Orlando NBA finals.  Magic Johnson was my guy growing up and I stayed with them.  The refs were letting Dwight Howard get away with so much that it was blatantly obvious the League wanted a tied series.  We try not to be biased as fans but we are more than we think....but this was so bad.  Derek Fisher had to keep hitting clutch 3's just to pull the game back from the league.  It put me in a spot that should have been a high (LA up 3-1) that just made me disgusted that I was that emotionally spent on a game and questioning the league almost to the level of being a little kid and finding out wrestling isn't real.  It helped that I was saved just a few months prior and Christ was all I needed, so sports mattered less, but I was still a huge fan of my teams through good and bad, and what it took for the Lakers to win that game just felt dirty.

When the Chiefs were given the mulligan things snowballed, it brought me back to that game.  Cincy was going to have to be 3 or 4 plays better than the Cheifs wrong or wrong but it had to happen to win that game.  They didn't get Fisher's clutch shots, but that just sets the bar for next year.  

The Bengals are going to have to slay teams, following their cold blooded QB's lead. I'm proud of them for the run they had following a SB loss.  Now, they're beyond a letdown.  They have to see that they have to be so much better so a ref doesn't have the option to be a facor.  Here's to a healthy line leading to record numbers on offense and a defense that continues to flourish, and beating teams handily on the way to a Super Bowl that refs can't alter. 

(02-13-2023, 01:26 AM)phil413 Wrote: Yeah I'm glad that Roger has to see and hear reality no matter if he doesn't want to look at it. 

I stepped away from post AFC championship loss convos because I was pretty over it but life goes on.  You always want to be one or two plays better that the other team so refs can't decide the game no matter accidentally or intentionally.  

It brought me back to a weird place that wasn't a high or low that you sit in, but a realization.  It was game 4 of the Lakers/Orlando NBA finals.  Magic Johnson was my guy growing up and I stayed with them.  The refs were letting Dwight Howard get away with so much that it was blatantly obvious the League wanted a tied series.  We try not to be biased as fans but we are more than we think....but this was so bad.  Derek Fisher had to keep hitting clutch 3's just to pull the game back from the league.  It put me in a spot that should have been a high (LA up 3-1) that just made me disgusted that I was that emotionally spent on a game and questioning the league almost to the level of being a little kid and finding out wrestling isn't real.  It helped that I was saved just a few months prior and Christ was all I needed, so sports mattered less, but I was still a huge fan of my teams through good and bad, and what it took for the Lakers to win that game just felt dirty.

When the Chiefs were given the mulligan things snowballed, it brought me back to that game.  Cincy was going to have to be 3 or 4 plays better than the Cheifs wrong or wrong but it had to happen to win that game.  They didn't get Fisher's clutch shots, but that just sets the bar for next year.  

The Bengals are going to have to slay teams, following their cold blooded QB's lead. I'm proud of them for the run they had following a SB loss.  Now, they're beyond a letdown.  They have to see that they have to be so much better so a ref doesn't have the option to be a facor.  Here's to a healthy line leading to record numbers on offense and a defense that continues to flourish, and beating teams handily on the way to a Super Bowl that refs can't alter. 

There's been many times where I questioned refs in the NBA, but the one that always stands out to me is the Kings vs Lakers series around 2002 (?). 

Sorry if that upsets you as a Lakers fan, but that series is pretty infamous and I watched it when it happened and couldn't believe what I was seeing.

I try to reserve hard complaints about refs for times they actually deserve it. 

Just as flags should only be thrown when there is a clear violation, I believe fans should only pull the "refs card" when it's clear they're either doing a very poor job or outright not calling the game evenly. 

Meaning they are calling late hit on Mahomes, but not roughing on Burrow. For example. Or when they make up rules as they go. 

My memory is (very) foggy, but I want to say there was a time the Steelers hit one of our guys late in a key game and the NFL "adjusted" the rule after the season, but it should have been a violation at the time. It was something along those lines. Not sure if anyone will remember what I'm talking about.

(02-13-2023, 01:41 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: There's been many times where I questioned refs in the NBA, but the one that always stands out to me is the Kings vs Lakers series around 2002 (?). 

Sorry if that upsets you as a Lakers fan, but that series is pretty infamous and I watched it when it happened and couldn't believe what I was seeing.

I try to reserve hard complaints about refs for times they actually deserve it. 

Just as flags should only be thrown when there is a clear violation, I believe fans should only pull the "refs card" when it's clear they're either doing a very poor job or outright not calling the game evenly. 

Meaning they are calling late hit on Mahomes, but not roughing on Burrow. For example. Or when they make up rules as they go. 

My memory is (very) foggy, but I want to say there was a time the Steelers hit one of our guys late in a key game and the NFL "adjusted" the rule after the season, but it should have been a violation at the time. It was something along those lines. Not sure if anyone will remember what I'm talking about.

It was when Ryan shazier paralyzed himself for helmet to helmet on gio. It used to be helmet to helmet on a defenseless receiver (and they deemed gio not one), and adjusted to be no helmet to helmet at all after.

Or the Hines ward one, where he broke Keith rivers jaw and ruined him.

Or maybe the Palmer one.


2006: The "Carson Palmer rule"

Some call the rule designed to protect quarterbacks' knees the "Tom Brady rule," but it was the "Carson Palmer rule" first.

In the AFC Wild Card matchup between the Bengals and Steelers in January, the Steelers' Kimo von Oelhoffen hit Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer on the second play from scrimmage in the knee on a long pass play, tearing Palmer's ACL.

During the offseason, the NFL's competition committee proposed a rule change in the interest of quarterbacks' safety.

The rule: "A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him."

2008: The "Hines Ward rule"

During a 38-10 Pittsburgh win, Hines Ward blindsided Bengals linebacker and first-round draft pick (earlier that year) Keith Rivers with a vicious block, breaking his jaw. Rivers was never the same.

It was a legal hit at the time that would later draw a 15-yard penalty after the rule change making blindside blocks illegal if the blocker's helmet, shoulder or forearm makes contact with the head or neck area of the opponent, who is considered defenseless in that situation.

The Steelers, ironically, were the only team to vote against the rule.

2016: Clarification on helmet-to-helmet hits and leading with the crown of the helmet

The interpretation of a helmet-to-helmet hit was changed after Steelers linebacker Ryan Shazier - the player who seriously injured his back while making a tackle on Monday night - used the crown of his helmet to contact Bengals running back Giovani Bernard, who suffered a concussion.

Shazier was not penalized because officials said Bernard wasn't a defenseless receiver, adding that Shazier didn't deliberately line up "head on" with Bernard.

The NFL's clarification prohibits defensive players from leading with the crown of the helmet outside the tackle box, no matter which angle is taken by the tackler.

In 10 years, I doubt anyone will remember that the refs played a key role in the Chiefs not only getting to the Super Bowl, but winning it.

People remember legacies, but rarely bad calls by refs. Unless this sparks a real conversation, nothing will change.

I doubt the conversation continues. The media will move on to hyping Pat Mahomes and comparing him to Brady.

If the NFL really is having refs lean a certain way, maybe this is what allows it to happen.

(02-13-2023, 01:51 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: It was when Ryan shazier paralyzed himself for helmet to helmet on gio.  It used to be helmet to helmet on a defenseless receiver (and they deemed gio not one), and adjusted to be no helmet to helmet at all after.

Or the Hines ward one, where he broke Keith rivers jaw and ruined him.

Or maybe the Palmer one.


2006: The "Carson Palmer rule"

Some call the rule designed to protect quarterbacks' knees the "Tom Brady rule," but it was the "Carson Palmer rule" first.

In the AFC Wild Card matchup between the Bengals and Steelers in January, the Steelers' Kimo von Oelhoffen hit Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer on the second play from scrimmage in the knee on a long pass play, tearing Palmer's ACL.

During the offseason, the NFL's competition committee proposed a rule change in the interest of quarterbacks' safety.

The rule: "A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him."

2008: The "Hines Ward rule"

During a 38-10 Pittsburgh win, Hines Ward blindsided Bengals linebacker and first-round draft pick (earlier that year) Keith Rivers with a vicious block, breaking his jaw. Rivers was never the same.

It was a legal hit at the time that would later draw a 15-yard penalty after the rule change making blindside blocks illegal if the blocker's helmet, shoulder or forearm makes contact with the head or neck area of the opponent, who is considered defenseless in that situation.

The Steelers, ironically, were the only team to vote against the rule.

2016: Clarification on helmet-to-helmet hits and leading with the crown of the helmet

The interpretation of a helmet-to-helmet hit was changed after Steelers linebacker Ryan Shazier - the player who seriously injured his back while making a tackle on Monday night - used the crown of his helmet to contact Bengals running back Giovani Bernard, who suffered a concussion.

Shazier was not penalized because officials said Bernard wasn't a defenseless receiver, adding that Shazier didn't deliberately line up "head on" with Bernard.

The NFL's clarification prohibits defensive players from leading with the crown of the helmet outside the tackle box, no matter which angle is taken by the tackler.

Thanks. The hit on Gio is definitely the one I was thinking of, but now I know why I forgot. There's been so many similar situations with the Steelers. They all blur together for me.

(02-13-2023, 01:41 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: There's been many times where I questioned refs in the NBA, but the one that always stands out to me is the Kings vs Lakers series around 2002 (?). 

Sorry if that upsets you as a Lakers fan, but that series is pretty infamous and I watched it when it happened and couldn't believe what I was seeing.

I try to reserve hard complaints about refs for times they actually deserve it. 

Just as flags should only be thrown when there is a clear violation, I believe fans should only pull the "refs card" when it's clear they're either doing a very poor job or outright not calling the game evenly. 

Meaning they are calling late hit on Mahomes, but not roughing on Burrow. For example. Or when they make up rules as they go. 

My memory is (very) foggy, but I want to say there was a time the Steelers hit one of our guys late in a key game and the NFL "adjusted" the rule after the season, but it should have been a violation at the time. It was something along those lines. Not sure if anyone will remember what I'm talking about.

I don't disagree with the Kings/Lakers series, that was given to "us" and it felt dirty, I was just immature but anytime the free throw disparity came up...let's just say I know how Chiefs fans feel lol.  

Was this it: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.daytondailynews.com/sports/nfl-new-player-safety-rules-won-slow-ruggedness-bengals-steelers/3IFAucWGydZwZRs47b5GMJ/%3foutputType=amp

(02-13-2023, 01:51 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In 10 years, I doubt anyone will remember that the refs played a key role in the Chiefs not only getting to the Super Bowl, but winning it.

People remember legacies, but rarely bad calls by refs. Unless this sparks a real conversation, nothing will change.

I doubt the conversation continues. The media will move on to hyping Pat Mahomes and comparing him to Brady.

If the NFL really is having refs lean a certain way, maybe this is what allows it to happen.

Similar to our Super Bowl. Officiating was talked about the next day, specifically the Logan Wilson call, but after that, it was not discussed anymore.

(02-13-2023, 01:51 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: It was when Ryan shazier paralyzed himself for helmet to helmet on gio.  It used to be helmet to helmet on a defenseless receiver (and they deemed gio not one), and adjusted to be no helmet to helmet at all after.

Or the Hines ward one, where he broke Keith rivers jaw and ruined him.

Or maybe the Palmer one.


2006: The "Carson Palmer rule"

Some call the rule designed to protect quarterbacks' knees the "Tom Brady rule," but it was the "Carson Palmer rule" first.

In the AFC Wild Card matchup between the Bengals and Steelers in January, the Steelers' Kimo von Oelhoffen hit Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer on the second play from scrimmage in the knee on a long pass play, tearing Palmer's ACL.

During the offseason, the NFL's competition committee proposed a rule change in the interest of quarterbacks' safety.

The rule: "A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him."

2008: The "Hines Ward rule"

During a 38-10 Pittsburgh win, Hines Ward blindsided Bengals linebacker and first-round draft pick (earlier that year) Keith Rivers with a vicious block, breaking his jaw. Rivers was never the same.

It was a legal hit at the time that would later draw a 15-yard penalty after the rule change making blindside blocks illegal if the blocker's helmet, shoulder or forearm makes contact with the head or neck area of the opponent, who is considered defenseless in that situation.

The Steelers, ironically, were the only team to vote against the rule.

2016: Clarification on helmet-to-helmet hits and leading with the crown of the helmet

The interpretation of a helmet-to-helmet hit was changed after Steelers linebacker Ryan Shazier - the player who seriously injured his back while making a tackle on Monday night - used the crown of his helmet to contact Bengals running back Giovani Bernard, who suffered a concussion.

Shazier was not penalized because officials said Bernard wasn't a defenseless receiver, adding that Shazier didn't deliberately line up "head on" with Bernard.

The NFL's clarification prohibits defensive players from leading with the crown of the helmet outside the tackle box, no matter which angle is taken by the tackler.

Lol, Not to mention all the dirty play starting in the 70's. 
The worst part about this crap is that the Steelers players/fans/coaches cried and whined about Vontaze Burfict like the little hypocrites that they are.
The way I look at it, God put Burfict here to even the score.

(02-13-2023, 12:27 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Fix your league, Roger.

But, it's already fixed. 

(02-13-2023, 01:46 PM)bengalfan47 Wrote: Lol, Not to mention all the dirty play starting in the 70's. 
The worst part about this crap is that the Steelers players/fans/coaches cried and whined about Vontaze Burfict like the little hypocrites that they are.
The way I look at it, God put Burfict here to even the score.

They cried about the Raiders too....Chuck Knoll even took it to court. 

(02-13-2023, 02:35 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Similar to our Super Bowl. Officiating was talked about the next day, specifically the Logan Wilson call, but after that, it was not discussed anymore.

Exactly. It's even worse in the social media era we live in, where news is pumped out by the minute and attention spans have adjusted to that. So much crazy news comes out on a daily basis that China flying a balloon over our country barely registers.

Roger Goodell can let out his inner douchebag and people will still gobble up the NFL and ask for seconds. That dude has legit been Vince McMahon since he walked out on draft day in 2017 and egged on the boo's.

It's only gotten worse from there.

He's unprofessional, classless and has zero integrity. Like bfine said though, the owners keep extending this guy and making him very wealthy.

The league desperately needs a commish with integrity. A guy who doesn't pee on fans and tell them it's raining. Someone with the stones to admit officiating is a problem and work towards fixing it. A guy who doesn't mock the fans for their concerns.

Barstool put out a video with Goodell hugging one of the Chiefs players and it sounds like he said I don't care how you hit the QB

(02-13-2023, 02:33 PM)Wyche Wrote: They cried about the Raiders too....Chuck Knoll even took it to court. 

Seriously?? LMAO 
Steelers and their fans are the worst. 

(02-13-2023, 01:51 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: It was when Ryan shazier paralyzed himself for helmet to helmet on gio.  It used to be helmet to helmet on a defenseless receiver (and they deemed gio not one), and adjusted to be no helmet to helmet at all after.

Or the Hines ward one, where he broke Keith rivers jaw and ruined him.

Or maybe the Palmer one.


2006: The "Carson Palmer rule"

Some call the rule designed to protect quarterbacks' knees the "Tom Brady rule," but it was the "Carson Palmer rule" first.

In the AFC Wild Card matchup between the Bengals and Steelers in January, the Steelers' Kimo von Oelhoffen hit Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer on the second play from scrimmage in the knee on a long pass play, tearing Palmer's ACL.

During the offseason, the NFL's competition committee proposed a rule change in the interest of quarterbacks' safety.

The rule: "A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him."

2008: The "Hines Ward rule"

During a 38-10 Pittsburgh win, Hines Ward blindsided Bengals linebacker and first-round draft pick (earlier that year) Keith Rivers with a vicious block, breaking his jaw. Rivers was never the same.

It was a legal hit at the time that would later draw a 15-yard penalty after the rule change making blindside blocks illegal if the blocker's helmet, shoulder or forearm makes contact with the head or neck area of the opponent, who is considered defenseless in that situation.

The Steelers, ironically, were the only team to vote against the rule.

2016: Clarification on helmet-to-helmet hits and leading with the crown of the helmet

The interpretation of a helmet-to-helmet hit was changed after Steelers linebacker Ryan Shazier - the player who seriously injured his back while making a tackle on Monday night - used the crown of his helmet to contact Bengals running back Giovani Bernard, who suffered a concussion.

Shazier was not penalized because officials said Bernard wasn't a defenseless receiver, adding that Shazier didn't deliberately line up "head on" with Bernard.

The NFL's clarification prohibits defensive players from leading with the crown of the helmet outside the tackle box, no matter which angle is taken by the tackler.

Didnt they make a rule when Huber got his neck broken and they didnt call a penalty?
I remember that bs game because Antonio Brown returned a punt  back for a td and there were so many block in the backs that it would have been easier to call a person for not blocking illegally! 

(02-13-2023, 03:39 PM)sloSTI Wrote: Barstool put out a video with Goodell hugging one of the Chiefs players and it sounds like he said I don't care how you hit the QB

Yup, Chris Jones....

(02-13-2023, 04:05 PM)bengalfan47 Wrote: Seriously?? LMAO 
Steelers and their fans are the worst. 

Oh yeah.....he labeled the Raiders "the criminal element of football", specifically their secondary and George Atkinson. A court case ensued. It was bizarre. I remembered the sequence incorrectly, Atkinson and The Raiders brought a suit for libel against Noll and the Steelers.

https://www.thefootballodyssey.com/white-collar-football-1/atkinson-v-noll-the-criminal-element

IMO they didn't put the Chiefs in the superbowl with the suspect calls in the Bengals game to lose, this game was an easy predicted win for the Chiefs, regardless of how hard it looked.

If they wanted the Eagles to win, they could have put the Bengals in the SB and had them lose, they selected the Chiefs for a reason.

Tainted SB win.

(02-13-2023, 04:53 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: IMO they didn't put the Chiefs in the superbowl with the suspect calls in the Bengals game to lose, this game was an easy predicted win for the Chiefs, regardless of how hard it looked.

If they wanted the Eagles to win, they could have put the Bengals in the SB and had them lose, they selected the Chiefs for a reason.

Tainted SB win.

I don't really believe all that BS. But I will agree that Mahomes injury is suspect as hell. 

(02-13-2023, 04:57 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I don't really believe all that BS. But I will agree that Mahomes injury is suspect as hell. 

If his injury is suspect, other than trying to trick the other team (which definitely has its merits), what else is it good for other than another story for the NFL to talk about for a couple weeks? Lol.

The NFL telegraphs what they want to happen, they wanted this happen before the year started, a Chiefs dynasty. If the eagles had won they would have had 2 rings in 5 years, how come nobody talked about an Eagles dynasty? Lol. Of course the roster is different.

No way the NFL could have handled an eagles dynasty in the making instead of a chiefs dynasty IMO!

The SB ended the same way the AFC-C game ended, with the refs making a ticky tack call and injecting themselves.

"We are the captain now" - NFL refs (when coaches can't challenge in last 2 minutes).

Last year, NFC-C and superbowl ended in the exact same way. Donald spinning the QB around and the QB flailing and throwing it nowhere, game over.