(02-16-2023, 05:00 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: i still think its funny people are knocking mike brown cause a multi million dollar athlete had to buy his own gatorade at home

It's funnier that a guy who was born to be handed a billion dollar business even has a concept of what Gatorade is worth.  Also funny that we are in a thread where we want Joe Burrow to leave millions of dollars on the table, but expecting a billionaire to hand out some tax deductible Gatorade to his players is seen as a wedge issue.

(02-16-2023, 04:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I think the issue with your salary percentage is that all 3 of those numbers will not hit for at least 4 more years.  And who knows what the cap will be in 2027?

4 years is not a real number, let alone being able to put "at least" on it. How could it be at least 4 when that's literally the expected length of a WR contract? There's only 5 WRs in the NFL with a contract longer than 4 years and they're all at 5 years. So that would mean Higgins would have all of his cap hit in the very last year of his deal?

You're looking at 2 for Burrow and Higgins and 3 for Chase. Tops, barring the Bengals playing cap gymnastics with further extensions to kick the can down the road, which they don't have the liquid cash or the desire/creativity/FO personnel to pull off. There's plenty of recent WR extensions out there that it's much more likely for it to be 1 for Higgins and 2 for Burrow and Chase. 

Tyreek Hill extended in 2022, cap hit is at $31.5m in 2023. DJ Moore extended in 2022, cap hit is at $25m in 2023. Stefon Diggs extended in 2022, cap hit is at $20.3m in 2023. DK Metcalf and Davante Adams are 2022 extensions that you could look at for being 2 years instead of 1, but even then they're at $13.7m and $14.7m, which while isn't the huge hits they'll have in 2024, still isn't chump change, and sure enough in 2024 (after 2 years) they're at $24.5m and $25.4m cap hits.

Even before they reach the full huge cap hits, it will still be much more than it currently is for the three of them. You can make it for 2 years ('23 and '24), which sure, that's nice to have 2 years of going for it, but that path leads to being the Rams or Bucs. That's not a completely bad thing, they both had SB teams... it's just that I don't know about you but I would much more rather be the Chiefs than the Rams or Bucs.

(02-16-2023, 03:03 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'm sure Chase wouldn't mind being "the guy", like Jefferson is in Minn. No doubt he and Tee are friends but they can be just as much friends on different teams. 

Chase has already said he wants to break all the records and that's gonna be hard to do with another guy like Tee across from him and especially with Tee and Boyd. 

Flip side of that coin is that every play Chase is not doubled is because Tee is on the other side. Tee goes away, Chase is doubled on every play. 

(02-16-2023, 04:03 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Lol, you kill me. "He is bullshitting and being funny w that" what an ignorant take.

Chase did NOT "efforted" to move next door.  The house thing was actually a coincidence, they share the same realtor but he didnt know Joe was a neighbor at first. I just posted the video in this thread in which Chase says this.  Maybe you know more than Chase about Chase?  

And Joe does not hang out all the time period.  Joe's closest friends are Hubbard and Bates.  Joe has childhood friends he apparently sees often, but the guy literally doesnt go out.  Chase has totally different friend groups.  I only know this because I actually acted like a fanboy and asked someone that would know.   

I dont know all the little bestie groups on the team, I do know that DJ Reader and Tupoe are always together and Boyd is with them often.

Well maybe Chase should get his stories straight then, because when he moved to Cincinnati he stated he went up and down Burow's street asking his neighbors if they would sell him their home. Chase also said he picks all of Joe's game day outfits and clothing for him, which Burrow denied, then Chase came out and said he was kidding. Chase seems to be a storyteller, so I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt. I suspect he just doesn't want people in his business. 

(02-16-2023, 05:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 4 years is not a real number, let alone being able to put "at least" on it. How could it be at least 4 when that's literally the expected length of a WR contract? There's only 5 WRs in the NFL with a contract longer than 4 years and they're all at 5 years. So that would mean Higgins would have all of his cap hit in the very last year of his deal?

You're looking at 2 for Burrow and Higgins and 3 for Chase. Tops, barring the Bengals playing cap gymnastics with further extensions to kick the can down the road, which they don't have the liquid cash or the desire/creativity/FO personnel to pull off. There's plenty of recent WR extensions out there that it's much more likely for it to be 1 for Higgins and 2 for Burrow and Chase. 

Tyreek Hill extended in 2022, cap hit is at $31.5m in 2023. DJ Moore extended in 2022, cap hit is at $25m in 2023. Stefon Diggs extended in 2022, cap hit is at $20.3m in 2023. DK Metcalf and Davante Adams are 2022 extensions that you could look at for being 2 years instead of 1, but even then they're at $13.7m and $14.7m, which while isn't the huge hits they'll have in 2024, still isn't chump change, and sure enough in 2024 (after 2 years) they're at $24.5m and $25.4m cap hits.

Even before they reach the full huge cap hits, it will still be much more than it currently is for the three of them. You can make it for 2 years ('23 and '24), which sure, that's nice to have 2 years of going for it, but that path leads to being the Rams or Bucs. That's not a completely bad thing, they both had SB teams... it's just that I don't know about you but I would much more rather be the Chiefs than the Rams or Bucs.

"How could it be at least 4". 

This is easy, I said all 3 will not hit their max at the same time for at least 4 years, maybe longer, most likely never.

Seems to me that you are not taking into account specific bonuses and proration...?

Consider this:

Tee's big cap hit will come 1st.
YR1, 2025 - his 1st year base will be the lowest as is standard along with the prorated signing bonus.  Tee most likely wont hit his highest cap number until the last year of his contract, 2028 (assuming 4 years).

Joe's will come 2nd and hopefully take the longest time to hit the 50M mark.
Y1, 2026.  Joe's 50M cap hit is likely to come in 2029 at the soonest and 2032 at the latest.
Josh Allen didnt hit his 50M cap hit until YR3-2023 of the extension, Mahomes wont hit it until YR6-2027.

I can stop right here as Tee's last year would be before Joe's max cap hit of 50M or whatever.

Chase
Y1-2027,  he likely signs a 5 year deal with the max salary and prorated amount in YR5, so 2032.

(02-16-2023, 05:23 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Well maybe Chase should get his stories straight then, because when he moved to Cincinnati he stated he went up and down Burow's street asking his neighbors if they would sell him their home. Chase also said he picks all of Joe's game day outfits and clothing for him, which Burrow denied, then Chase came out and said he was kidding. Chase seems to be a storyteller, so I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt. I suspect he just doesn't want people in his business. 

I have never read or viewed video of Chase saying he did the house thing, Im aware of the clothes thing.  He very well could have, or jokingly implied it and it was blown out of proportion as great fodder for content starved reporters.

(02-16-2023, 05:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 4 years is not a real number, let alone being able to put "at least" on it. How could it be at least 4 when that's literally the expected length of a WR contract? There's only 5 WRs in the NFL with a contract longer than 4 years and they're all at 5 years. So that would mean Higgins would have all of his cap hit in the very last year of his deal?

You're looking at 2 for Burrow and Higgins and 3 for Chase. Tops, barring the Bengals playing cap gymnastics with further extensions to kick the can down the road, which they don't have the liquid cash or the desire/creativity/FO personnel to pull off. There's plenty of recent WR extensions out there that it's much more likely for it to be 1 for Higgins and 2 for Burrow and Chase. 

Tyreek Hill extended in 2022, cap hit is at $31.5m in 2023. DJ Moore extended in 2022, cap hit is at $25m in 2023. Stefon Diggs extended in 2022, cap hit is at $20.3m in 2023. DK Metcalf and Davante Adams are 2022 extensions that you could look at for being 2 years instead of 1, but even then they're at $13.7m and $14.7m, which while isn't the huge hits they'll have in 2024, still isn't chump change, and sure enough in 2024 (after 2 years) they're at $24.5m and $25.4m cap hits.

Even before they reach the full huge cap hits, it will still be much more than it currently is for the three of them. You can make it for 2 years ('23 and '24), which sure, that's nice to have 2 years of going for it, but that path leads to being the Rams or Bucs. That's not a completely bad thing, they both had SB teams... it's just that I don't know about you but I would much more rather be the Chiefs than the Rams or Bucs.

Diggs and Hill's contracts are exactly like I suggested Tee and Chase's would be...they both hit the max in YR5 of the extension/contract.

As to Hill, you didnt mention that the 31M in Y2 drops down to 24M in Y3

The fact remains, people should not use the AAV of these players so soon, it will take years.

(02-16-2023, 05:32 PM)casear2727 Wrote: "How could it be at least 4". 

This is easy, I said all 3 will not hit their max at the same time for at least 4 years, maybe longer, most likely never.

Seems to me that you are not taking into account specific bonuses and proration...?

Consider this:

Tee's big cap hit will come 1st.
YR1, 2025 - his 1st year base will be the lowest as is standard along with the prorated signing bonus.  Tee most likely wont hit his highest cap number until the last year of his contract, 2028 (assuming 4 years).

Joe's will come 2nd and hopefully take the longest time to hit the 50M mark.
Y1, 2026.  Joe's 50M cap hit is likely to come in 2029 at the soonest and 2032 at the latest.
Josh Allen didnt hit his 50M cap hit until YR3-2023 of the extension, Mahomes wont hit it until YR6-2027.

I can stop right here as Tee's last year would be before Joe's max cap hit of 50M or whatever.

Chase
Y1-2027,  he likely signs a 5 year deal with the max salary and prorated amount in YR5, so 2032.

(02-16-2023, 05:42 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Diggs and Hill's contracts are exactly like I suggested Tee and Chase's would be...they both hit the max in YR5 of the extension/contract.

As to Hill, you didnt mention that the 31M in Y2 drops down to 24M in Y3

The fact remains, people should not use the AAV of these players so soon, it will take years.

Um, what? Higgins has 1 year left on his deal, 2023. The first year of his extension would be 2024. You've already started all your no-basis theoreticals on the wrong year.

Who cares about their max? Nobody. It only matters if it's a lot. You just suddenly slipped in max in your reply, but I care about numbers that will force decisions on roster construction for the rest of the team.

Mahomes' deal will be 3 years old when talking about Burrow's extension. Any numbers from a contract 3 years old is irrelevant to current discussions. Allen's 2 year deal is also not very helpful at 2 years old. Also, why the hell bring up $50m in contracts that averaged less than $50m? It doesn't make sense.

All of this is completely underlined by you apparently not getting the point at all bringing up Tyreek Hill's cap dropping to $24m in year 3. That's still $24m!!! Acting like that's not a ton of cap space because it isn't the "max" just makes your entire point extra useless. Big cap hits are big cap hits. 

But sure, it'll take 4 years or never for a 4 year extension to start impacting the team's cap space. Okay. Lol

(02-16-2023, 06:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Um, what? Higgins has 1 year left on his deal, 2023. The first year of his extension would be 2024. You've already started all your no-basis theoreticals on the wrong year.

Who cares about their max? Nobody. It only matters if it's a lot. You just suddenly slipped in max in your reply, but I care about numbers that will force decisions on roster construction for the rest of the team.

Mahomes' deal will be 3 years old when talking about Burrow's extension. Any numbers from a contract 3 years old is irrelevant to current discussions. Allen's 2 year deal is also not very helpful at 2 years old. Also, why the hell bring up $50m in contracts that averaged less than $50m? It doesn't make sense.

All of this is completely underlined by you apparently not getting the point at all bringing up Tyreek Hill's cap dropping to $24m in year 3. That's still $24m!!! Acting like that's not a ton of cap space because it isn't the "max" just makes your entire point extra useless. Big cap hits are big cap hits. 

But sure, it'll take 4 years or never for a 4 year extension to start impacting the team's cap space. Okay. Lol

Actually you were the first to bring up the max with your 80M per rant.

I only mentioned 50M for Joe's contract, where did I do that for Tee or Chase?

You keep using AAV like some amateur, and yet you know better, as you prove in your last sentence.

24M is not a big number for Tyreke Hill, it is all relevant to the player as to what is "expensive".  The cap jumped 16M this year and will continue to rise.

Mahomes deal is absolutely relevant because that is the type of deal the Bengals are offering Joe, how can it be irrelevant?

(02-16-2023, 11:27 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I appreciate you posting your once a month comment on my thread.

And I appreciate you making me post twice in the same month. Same day even. And stalking my profile and post history.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(02-16-2023, 06:24 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: And I appreciate you making me post twice in the same month.  Same day even.  And stalking my profile and post history.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Easy killer, I felt special, now it is just awkward...

(02-16-2023, 05:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Flip side of that coin is that every play Chase is not doubled is because Tee is on the other side. Tee goes away, Chase is doubled on every play. 

It's much harder to double a guy if he's not standing on the LoS. 

(02-16-2023, 05:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Flip side of that coin is that every play Chase is not doubled is because Tee is on the other side. Tee goes away, Chase is doubled on every play. 

As nice as it would be to keep Tee, if Burrow is as elite as we think he is he might have to find a way to get stuff done with only one top end WR, and I think he can.  I can see us having Burrow, Chase, and maybe Boyd too but a decent number of plug-in guys who get stuff done because they have Burrow as their QB. 

(02-16-2023, 05:35 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I have never read or viewed video of Chase saying he did the house thing, Im aware of the clothes thing.  He very well could have, or jokingly implied it and it was blown out of proportion as great fodder for content starved reporters.

https://nypost.com/2022/02/11/jamarr-chase-went-to-wild-lengths-to-live-near-bengals-teammate-joe-burrow/

Quote:Ja’Marr Chase really wanted to live near Joe Burrow.


The wide receiver and quarterback are best friends, college teammates, and are now set to play in Super Bowl 2022 together with the Bengals. So after Cincinnati drafted Chase last spring, it was only logical for the LSU product to do everything he could to live on the same street as Burrow.

So he started knocking on doors and offering to buy houses.
[color=var(--wp--preset--color--gray-g)]“He went down to the street that Joe Burrow lives on and went door to door, knocking on every door offering to buy their house,” The Athletic’s Bengals writer, Paul Dehner Jr. said on “Hear that Podcast Growlin’” this week.

“And guess what? He bought one. Somebody sold him their house, so he lives next to Joe Burrow now on their little street and they’re like one happy family.[/color]


“He basically went around and was like, ‘Hi, I’m Ja’Marr Chase. I have lots of money and I want to buy the house.’ Eventually he found somebody that he bought it from and now they’re neighbors.”

It’s certainly an extravagant approach, but we won’t knock Chase for wanting to live near his best friend.

(02-16-2023, 06:56 PM)Sled21 Wrote: https://nypost.com/2022/02/11/jamarr-chase-went-to-wild-lengths-to-live-near-bengals-teammate-joe-burrow/

Ive seen that article, it quotes Dehner not Chase?  In fact, everyone quotes Dehner.....?

(02-16-2023, 06:22 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Actually you were the first to bring up the max with your 80M per rant.

I only mentioned 50M for Joe's contract, where did I do that for Tee or Chase?

You keep using AAV like some amateur, and yet you know better, as you prove in your last sentence.

24M is not a big number for Tyreke Hill, it is all relevant to the player as to what is "expensive".  The cap jumped 16M this year and will continue to rise.

Mahomes deal is absolutely relevant because that is the type of deal the Bengals are offering Joe, how can it be irrelevant?

Where did I say you did that for Tee or Chase? Neither Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes' deals average $50m. So why would the year they reach $50m matter at all?

You either don't even know what year it is or can't do simple math to add 1 to the year, yet you're throwing out the term amateur. Lol

$24m is a big cap hit for any non-QB.  It is a number that will dictate how you can build the rest of your team. The cap will continue to rise, and so will the contracts you have to give out. It isn't just free space added on. If it raises another $16m next year, $30m/yr will already be too low a number for Chase. Players see the cap rising and will make their price rise accordingly.

Mahomes deal is 3 years old, new trends have happened, new standards have been set, new ceilings constructed. The most recent deals are the only ones that matter for agents. We now live in a world where a non-top QB like Kyler Murray gets 44.8% of his deal guaranteed at signing (who, again, only gets 2 years of low cap when extended) and makes more on average than Mahomes, because the Browns gave Watson a fully guaranteed deal, so everyone else's numbers are going up. The same way you don't use a 3 year old comp for a house when trying to sell it, you don't use a 3 year old comp for a contract.

(02-16-2023, 06:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: As nice as it would be to keep Tee, if Burrow is as elite as we think he is he might have to find a way to get stuff done with only one top end WR, and I think he can.  I can see us having Burrow, Chase, and maybe Boyd too but a decent number of plug-in guys who get stuff done because they have Burrow as their QB. 

Shhh Nate. We don't talk about this anymore. We're off the "Burrow will elevate players and make bad WRs good and good WRs great" narrative and now on the "we NEED to keep arguably the best WR trio in the league or it's a disaster" narrative.

(02-16-2023, 06:56 PM)Sled21 Wrote: https://nypost.com/2022/02/11/jamarr-chase-went-to-wild-lengths-to-live-near-bengals-teammate-joe-burrow/

Ceasar actually posted an interview where Ja'Marr said it never happened, obviously, he heard the report because he said He "fixed it when it happened".


Why does everything have to be so hard? 

(02-16-2023, 03:51 PM)PDub80 Wrote: lol. He is bullshitting and being funny w that. They hang out all the time and are good friends off the field. Chase literally efforted to move next door to Burrow. James Rapien did an artlcle just a week ago talking about how they horse around and hang out.

I ask again:

Why does everything have to be so hard?  

He clearly stated they don't talk much outside of football. He wasn't bullshitting or being funny in the interview.

(02-16-2023, 07:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Where did I say you did that for Tee or Chase? Neither Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes' deals average $50m. So why would the year they reach $50m matter at all?

You either don't even know what year it is or can't do simple math to add 1 to the year, yet you're throwing out the term amateur. Lol

$24m is a big cap hit for any non-QB.  It is a number that will dictate how you can build the rest of your team. The cap will continue to rise, and so will the contracts you have to give out. It isn't just free space added on. If it raises another $16m next year, $30m/yr will already be too low a number for Chase. Players see the cap rising and will make their price rise accordingly.

Mahomes deal is 3 years old, new trends have happened, new standards have been set, new ceilings constructed. The most recent deals are the only ones that matter for agents. We now live in a world where a non-top QB like Kyler Murray gets 44.8% of his deal guaranteed at signing (who, again, only gets 2 years of low cap when extended) and makes more on average than Mahomes, because the Browns gave Watson a fully guaranteed deal, so everyone else's numbers are going up. The same way you don't use a 3 year old comp for a house when trying to sell it, you don't use a 3 year old comp for a contract.

I'm going to try to not be as big of jerk as you are being.

As to Allen and Mahomes; you used the $50M deal for Burrow and since I was using Allen & Mahomes contracts as examples, their largest cap hit is in the 50M range so it just worked for the example.

I didn't use a 3 year price comp, I was discussing the longterm structure of Mahomes deal which Mike Brown said he hoped to do with Burrow.  You dont like it go see see Mike.

There is no doubt these deals will be expensive, but going by AAV doesn't tell the real story.  They could and would spread the costs out and have certain monies hit at certain times.

I know you want to trade Tee and you seem to think that everyone who doesn't is stupid.  As for me I could go either way, if we keep him ok, I can see how they make it work.  If they don't ok, we seem to be pretty tough negotiators when are the ones with the dealing a player.