(02-22-2023, 11:21 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Hurst has never performed as a 1st round pick unless you are good with lik 8 ypc and 3 to 5 tds a  game. Mayer looks much better than Hurst.

I feel like averaging that would put him in an elite tier...

(02-22-2023, 11:21 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Hurst has never performed as a 1st round pick unless you are good with lik 8 ypc and 3 to 5 tds a  game. Mayer looks much better than Hurst.

Yeah, i'll take 3 to 5 TDs a game from the TE position.

(02-21-2023, 09:39 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I think the OT prospects are riskier at #29 than some of the other spots. You are closer to getting the pick of the litter at RB, TE, S, or LB. CB & Edge have a lot of depth, with 19 of the top 50. And you can usually get a WR that can make an immediate impact late first (Zay Flowers?). 

The 4th WR could be #2 by next year and save us a ton of cap. 

But you are not wrong. But I  am a bit hesitant to take a Rd2 guy in the first because of need and leave a genuine first round guy on the board. 

I do not disagree, definitely can get higher guys in other positions.  I do believe that RTs drop a bit more than LT's, also so many QBs are pushing some guys back.  If we remove the QBs how high up do Darnell Wright and Dawand Johnson move?  

(02-22-2023, 11:21 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Hurst has never performed as a 1st round pick unless you are good with lik 8 ypc and 3 to 5 tds a  game. Mayer looks much better than Hurst.

You're going off Hurst's stats in CIN only though with this statement.

His career YPC is 9.7. He had 11.9 YPC in BAL.
Part of the reason he's lower in CIN is the routes he's running.

And you're also talking about Hurst's NFL career, but there is no NFL career when you're talking about NFL prospects, just their college careers and Combine/Pro Day performances.
I was referring to Hurst when he was coming out of college, so his NFL career doesn't apply in this case.
In college, Hurst averaged 12.8 YPC. Mayer averaged 11.7.

Mayer is not an uber-athletic and speedy TE. He's a true TE mold, just like Hurst was.
Like I said in my actual post (which you seemed to ignore in your reply) is I am curious how similar Mayer will be to Hurst's Combine numbers, as I think they will be very similar drill-wise.
In college, Mayer was better than Hurst stat-wise, so I can see Mayer being somewhat better in the NFL.
Do I think he'll be head and shoulders better though and be in that upper echelon of 700+ yard every year kinda TE? I can't say for sure, but I don't have confidence. Especially if he were a Bengal, as the Bengals don't use TEs enough as receivers to be in the upper tier in that category among the league.

(02-22-2023, 11:21 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Hurst has never performed as a 1st round pick unless you are good with lik 8 ypc and 3 to 5 tds a  game. Mayer looks much better than Hurst.

Here's a fun fact of the day, Hurst had a higher YPC in college than Mayer.  Mayer just has bigger totals because ND utilizes the heck out of the TE in their offense, compared to what SC was doing when Hurst was there.

Daniel Jeremiah has Kincaid and Washington ranked over Meyer, so let's hope other teams have similar rankings and Mayer falls to us.

People on here have worried about his speed, but, like I've said, his 40 time is only .04 slower than Kelce's and he has the most catches of 10-plus yards downfield in this draft class.

My high school is having a draft party in the gym and I'm wondering if he'll be there.

(02-23-2023, 11:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote:  

And you're also talking about Hurst's NFL career, but there is no NFL career when you're talking about NFL prospects, just their college careers and Combine/Pro Day performances.
I was referring to Hurst when he was coming out of college, so his NFL career doesn't apply in this case.
In college, Hurst averaged 12.8 YPC. Mayer averaged 11.7.

 

Off topic, but I still have a hangover from how the Bengals used Gresham.  Gresham's ypc was 14.7 in college...better than both of them... 

(02-23-2023, 03:26 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Daniel Jeremiah has Kincaid and Washington ranked over Meyer, so let's hope other teams have similar rankings and Mayer falls to us.

People on here have worried about his speed, but, like I've said, his 40 time is only .04 slower than Kelce's and he has the most catches of 10-plus yards downfield in this draft class.

My high school is having a draft party in the gym and I'm wondering if he'll be there.

Kincaid's probably the best receiving TE out of the trio, Washington is probably the best blocker, and Mayer is probably in the middle.
Mayer is also arguably the most polished TE, but Kincaid and Washington have arguably higher ceilings.
I'd be ok with either Mayer or Washington if Hurst leaves in FA.
I'd love to have Kincaid too, but I know the Bengals won't use him the way he should be used, and thus I don't talk about him much.

(02-23-2023, 03:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Kincaid's probably the best receiving TE out of the trio, Washington is probably the best blocker, and Mayer is probably in the middle.
Mayer is also arguably the most polished TE, but Kincaid and Washington have arguably higher ceilings.
I'd be ok with either Mayer or Washington if Hurst leaves in FA.
I'd love to have Kincaid too, but I know the Bengals won't use him the way he should be used, and thus I don't talk about him much.

Not a fan of Washington because he's not a good route runner and he has too many drops, which I want our tight end to be a sure thing and a safety blanket. He has speed but he wasn't really used as a receiver at Georgia.

(02-23-2023, 04:19 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Not a fan of Washington because he's not a good route runner and he has too many drops, which I want our tight end to be a sure thing and a safety blanket. He has speed but he wasn't really used as a receiver at Georgia.

He was used enough as a receiver.
28 rec for 454 yards at 16.2 YPC is pretty good.
He would have been used more as a receiver if not for Brock Bowers, who is very likely going to be TE1 (and possibly Top 10 pick) in next year's draft.
And his limited (but good) receiving production mixed with his huge size and blocking ability might make some teams think he has a higher ceiling than Mayer.

For a team that likes blockers at TE who can also be solid receiving threats in shorter routes and in the red zone (like CIN), Washington is a great fit.
But he won't be a fit for every team.

(02-23-2023, 05:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: He was used enough as a receiver.
28 rec for 454 yards at 16.2 YPC is pretty good.
He would have been used more as a receiver if not for Brock Bowers, who is very likely going to be TE1 (and possibly Top 10 pick) in next year's draft.
And his limited (but good) receiving production mixed with his huge size and blocking ability might make some teams think he has a higher ceiling than Mayer.

For a team that likes blockers at TE who can also be solid receiving threats in shorter routes and in the red zone (like CIN), Washington is a great fit.
But he won't be a fit for every team.

Not gonna lie, this is giving me faster  Drew Sample 2.0.....as a 1...


You know who won't cost you a 1? (PS, this is my biggest reason against Mayer as well). I would go Mayer above Robinson (even if drafting Robinson allowed me MY boy Payne). Honestly, if first round talents for OT, OG, DT, CB, and Edge are all gone, I'd go Mayer (if I couldn't trade down).Take that back, I'd also go Brian Branch before Mayer.

(02-23-2023, 08:36 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: Not gonna lie, this is giving me faster  Drew Sample 2.0.....as a 1...


You know who won't cost you a 1? (PS, this is my biggest reason against Mayer as well). I would go Mayer above Robinson (even if drafting Robinson allowed me MY boy Payne). Honestly, if first round talents for OT, OG, DT, CB, and Edge are all gone, I'd go Mayer (if I couldn't trade down).Take that back, I'd also go Brian Branch before Mayer.

Meh, Drew Sample's best season in college was only 252 yards for 10.1 YPC.
That's a lot worse than Washington's.

I know Washington probably won't run as fast, but he reminds me of OJ Howard in a way.
Underutilized in college, has ideal size, can block, and has the potential (keyword) to really elevate himself as a pass catcher in the NFL compared to college.

(02-23-2023, 04:19 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Not a fan of Washington because he's not a good route runner and he has too many drops, which I want our tight end to be a sure thing and a safety blanket. He has speed but he wasn't really used as a receiver at Georgia.

Washington had 2 drops this season, Mayer had 4....

(02-24-2023, 08:34 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Washington had 2 drops this season, Mayer had 4....

Washington also only had 28 catches to Mayer's 67, so Washington had a higher drop percentage.

(02-23-2023, 03:26 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Daniel Jeremiah has Kincaid and Washington ranked over Meyer, so let's hope other teams have similar rankings and Mayer falls to us.

People on here have worried about his speed, but, like I've said, his 40 time is only .04 slower than Kelce's and he has the most catches of 10-plus yards downfield in this draft class.

My high school is having a draft party in the gym and I'm wondering if he'll be there.

I would take both of them over Mayer.

(02-24-2023, 02:35 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I would take both of them over Mayer.

Bold strategy Cotton. Let's see how this plays out lol

(02-24-2023, 02:35 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I would take both of them over Mayer.

Why?

You have been known to be a blind hater to my posts, so I'm anxious to see this justification.

(02-24-2023, 03:30 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Why?

You have been known to be a blind hater to my posts, so I'm anxious to see this justification.

Blind hater?  The only thing I've ever said that would be somewhat hateful is when I "laughed" (if that's the term I would use) at you saying Mayer is a generational TE talent.  He's just simply not.

Kincaid is my favorite TE in this draft.  I want my TE to be a complete mismatch in the passing game and I don't think that Mayer would be that at the Pro Level. 

If I can't have my guy be a mismatch, then he needs to be a dominant blocker as well as a guy that can get open.  Washington fits that bill.

I'm also just not a first round TE guy.  The first round guy rarely ends up being the best one out of the class.

(02-01-2023, 06:50 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I had pretty much realized that drafting Mayer was a pipe dream because I had seen him projected to go in the middle of the first round, but the most recent PFF mock draft has him going to the Giants at #26, which I think the Giants will go QB.

Regardless if we think the Giants will take him, the Jags or Bills could take him before us, so I think we should still trade up to get him if he falls that far because it would only cost us our first and likely a third round pick.

Having Mayer would make us the most dangerous offense in the NFL because you HAVE to double Mayer AND Chase, but that leaves other options open for us, and that's assuming the double teams stop them, which is a tall task.

We saw how wide open Kelce can get even when the defense knows that he was Mahomes' main target, and they didn't have Chase.

I realize that we need lineman, but hopefully we can find free agents and quality draft picks after the first round, as well as considering that a tight end like Mayer helps keep the pass rush in check by being a safety outlet.

DRAFT MEYER!

I am sorry but I believe you are exaggerating the attributes of Mayer considerably. He does not have the speed that guys like Kelce or even Hurst have and when watching him I would have to describe his breaks as sluggish to a degree. Separation is not something he really creates with his physical abilities on a regular basis and I just do not see NFL defenses double teaming him on a regular basis.

I would consider him in the second round but I believe there are as good, if not potentially better overtime, TEs in this draft that would compliment this offense as receivers more than Mayer would. I would not select him if he fell to us at 28 and I ABSOLUTELY would not even consider the notion of trading up to get him.

(02-24-2023, 03:49 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Blind hater?  The only thing I've ever said that would be somewhat hateful is when I "laughed" (if that's the term I would use) at you saying Mayer is a generational TE talent.  He's just simply not.

Kincaid is my favorite TE in this draft.  I want my TE to be a complete mismatch in the passing game and I don't think that Mayer would be that at the Pro Level. 

If I can't have my guy be a mismatch, then he needs to be a dominant blocker as well as a guy that can get open.  Washington fits that bill.

I'm also just not a first round TE guy.  The first round guy rarely ends up being the best one out of the class.

Hammer I have to agree with you here. Mayer most certainly is not a generational talent. When it comes to athleticism and ability to create after the catch I believe Hurst is better. There are some absolutely outstanding TEs in this draft but none that I would take first round and it seems that many forget that Kelce was selected in the third round. The TEs I would much rather see the Bengals wait to take later would be (in no particular order)...

Josh Whyle - UC - I feel Whyle is already a more dynamic receiving threat and is far more dangerous after the catch.

Tucker Kraft - S. Dakota St. - I see skillsets in Kraft and Mayer that are very similar and I think that Kraft is better after the catch. I think in time Kraft will be a very good NFL TE.

Cameron Latu - Bama - I feel like Latu may be the most underrated TE in this entire draft. People do not seem to realize that this kid only played the position at the collegiate level for a single season. His film most certainly does not look like that of a first year TE. I would really like to get this kid and re-sign Hurst and let him mentor him.