(03-09-2023, 06:20 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The budget route. 

I've seen that movie. Don't like it for Oline.

My scenario of Eluemunor, Fleming and backup G addresses 3 spots, depth and versatility...things that killed them down the stretch. I guess you can call that a 'budget route' but IMO, it's more about protecting yourself against what happened last year. 

One of the reasons I'm for going this route is because I don't see them releasing Collins. I feel like they're going to hang onto him for at least another year, even if he has to start out on IR. Eluemunor gives you a very solid pass protector to hold down RT until whenever he comes back, and if Collins can comes back...then you have Eluemunor as a backup at RT and both G spots, or maybe Collins is in that role if Eluemunor is playing well enough.

I want as much depth and versatility as possible on the line. I don't want to see any more Adeniji - Scharping level insurance policies, because we saw what happens when you have to cash those in. 

Just my opinions though...it'll be interesting to see what route they do go. 

(03-11-2023, 05:40 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: My scenario of Eluemunor, Fleming and backup G addresses 3 spots, depth and versatility...things that killed them down the stretch. I guess you can call that a 'budget route' but IMO, it's more about protecting yourself against what happened last year. 

One of the reasons I'm for going this route is because I don't see them releasing Collins. I feel like they're going to hang onto him for at least another year, even if he has to start out on IR. Eluemunor gives you a very solid pass protector to hold down RT until whenever he comes back, and if Collins can comes back...then you have Eluemunor as a backup at RT and both G spots, or maybe Collins is in that role if Eluemunor is playing well enough.

I want as much depth and versatility as possible on the line. I don't want to see any more Adeniji - Scharping level insurance policies, because we saw what happens when you have to cash those in. 

Just my opinions though...it'll be interesting to see what route they do go. 

I like your scenario the best honestly Holic. We need a good pass protector at RT and that is what Eluemunor would provide.

I do like the McGary thought in the run game but he isn't as good of a pass protector as Eluemunor regardless of the money 
both will command. Same with Fleming as he would add depth, nothing wrong with that, we need it on the OL. Still don't hate
Scharping, thought he played well against the Bills but he was destroyed by the Chiefs, happens. Adeniji though has cost us big
time 2 years in a row in either the Playoffs or in the Super Bowl.

(03-11-2023, 05:40 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: My scenario of Eluemunor, Fleming and backup G addresses 3 spots, depth and versatility...things that killed them down the stretch. I guess you can call that a 'budget route' but IMO, it's more about protecting yourself against what happened last year. 

One of the reasons I'm for going this route is because I don't see them releasing Collins. I feel like they're going to hang onto him for at least another year, even if he has to start out on IR. Eluemunor gives you a very solid pass protector to hold down RT until whenever he comes back, and if Collins can comes back...then you have Eluemunor as a backup at RT and both G spots, or maybe Collins is in that role if Eluemunor is playing well enough.

I want as much depth and versatility as possible on the line. I don't want to see any more Adeniji - Scharping level insurance policies, because we saw what happens when you have to cash those in. 

Just my opinions though...it'll be interesting to see what route they do go. 

Another possible option for depth is Kelvin Beachum.   He can play both LT and RT.  He has posted 10 straight years of 70+ pass protection PFF grade.  Yes, he is going to be 34 when the season starts but he is still playing at a high level.  He may not be the long term solution but he could help us win now in our current Super Bowl window.

and you are 100% right, we have seen what Adeniji and Sharping did for us as far as depth.  We need better depth than that.  We cant go in to another season counting on those guys as depth if an injury occurs because we will be in the same situation as this year.  We need better depth.  Beachum could provide that over the next couple of years.  If the estimates of 1.5million per year are correct, that would be a no-brainer FA signing.

(03-11-2023, 04:06 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The thing I dont like about McGary and McGlinchey is neither one of them are that good in pass protection.  They are very good in run blocking which boosts their PFF grades but in pass protection they are mediocre.  I think that style of play works better with a team like Baltimore or Tennessee that are more run oriented.

I would much rather bring in someone who is the complete opposite, good in pass protection and mediocre in run blocking.  I think that would help us more.   I wouldnt want to see the Bengas spend 12-16 million per year on someone who isnt good in pass protection which is why Im not a fan of McGary and McGlinchey getting big contracts from the Bengals.  The #1 priority when looking at RTs should be how well they do in pass protection

Numbers crunch time. 

For a top 10 RT you want to see about 2 sacks and 22 total pressure for a season, on around 10-12K snaps. For a 32nd rated (average) RT you want to see about 5 sacks and 34 total pressures. 

Here are the numbers for some of the FA RTs we've been talking about and what they've done the last 3 years. After the combined numbers you will see Snaps Per Pressure given up. For an "average" RT, 1200 snaps and 34 pressures would come out to 35.3 SPP. You want to see that number or higher for them to be considered 'above average'.

We have the name and their current age followed by what they've given up-- sacks, total pressures and snaps for the year, from '22, '21 and '20.

McGary (28)
6 19 1051 (55.3)
9 41  986 (24.0)
4 30  890 (29.7)
----------
19 90 2927 SPP = (32.5)


McGlinchey (28)
6 36 1210 (33.6)
2 13  466 (35.8)
5 37 1091 (29.5)
----------
13 86 2767 SPP = (32.2)


Eluemunor (28)
3 26 940 (36.2)
0   5 266 (53.2)
3 11 419 (38.1)
---------
6 42 1625 SPP = (38.7)


Taylor (25)
5 21 1230 (58.6)
6 34 1083 (31.9)
8 58 1037 (17.9)
---------
19 113 3350 SPP = (29.6)

Here are their RAS scores. 
McGary = 9.82
McGlinchey = N/A
Eluemunor = 7.08
Taylor = I/C

Links to combine results.
McGary. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kaleb-mcgary/32004d43-4703-7471-27c0-bc59a6bb256c
McGlinchey. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/mike-mcglinchey/32004d43-4748-3723-bceb-8268dc0c3a2c
Eluemunor. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jermaine-eluemunor/3200454c-5517-7981-2db3-292a30f493e2
Taylor. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jawaan-taylor/32005441-5934-9425-ed94-9fc450b432bc

Jawaan Taylor and Kaleb McGary both had top 10 passpro numbers last year (55+ SPP).

(03-11-2023, 05:40 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: My scenario of Eluemunor, Fleming and backup G addresses 3 spots, depth and versatility...things that killed them down the stretch. I guess you can call that a 'budget route' but IMO, it's more about protecting yourself against what happened last year. 

One of the reasons I'm for going this route is because I don't see them releasing Collins. I feel like they're going to hang onto him for at least another year, even if he has to start out on IR. Eluemunor gives you a very solid pass protector to hold down RT until whenever he comes back, and if Collins can comes back...then you have Eluemunor as a backup at RT and both G spots, or maybe Collins is in that role if Eluemunor is playing well enough.

I want as much depth and versatility as possible on the line. I don't want to see any more Adeniji - Scharping level insurance policies, because we saw what happens when you have to cash those in. 

Just my opinions though...it'll be interesting to see what route they do go. 

I agree with that 100% but i don't want to weigh them equally. Get the best RT at the best price and then get the best backup. Best tackle at the best price doesn't necessarily mean the least expensive though. If that makes as much sense to you as it does my brain...

(03-11-2023, 10:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: McGary (28)
6 19 1051 (55.3)
9 41  986 (24.0)
4 30  890 (29.7)
----------
19 90 2927 SPP = (32.5)


McGlinchey (28)
6 36 1210 (33.6)
2 13  466 (35.8)
5 37 1091 (29.5)
----------
13 86 2767 SPP = (32.2)


Eluemunor (28)
3 26 940 (36.2)
0   5 266 (53.2)
3 11 419 (38.1)
---------
6 42 1625 SPP = (38.7)


Taylor (25)
5 21 1230 (58.6)
6 34 1083 (31.9)
8 58 1037 (17.9)
---------
19 113 3350 SPP = (29.6)


Jawaan Taylor and Kaleb McGary both had top 10 passpro numbers last year (55+ SPP).

Yes, but the two other years they were both below average with McGary being in the mid to high 20s and Taylor being below average both years with a horribe 17.9 in one of those.  I would be worried both Taylor and McGary have only showed success 1 year in pass protection.  In Taylor's case he still posted a total 58.7 PFF grade last year so his run blocking must not be very good.  At least McGary showed elite run blocking ability.

Eluemunor has been above average in pass protection all three years.  McGlinchey great run blocker but not so great in pass protection.  If we go by your numbers I think we should all agree McGlinchey would be a bad pick up and is not worth 15-16 million a year for someone who is not good in pass protection.   Ive never been a fan of signing McGlinchey for that reason.  Too much money for a guy who is not good in pass protection.  Im not sold on McGary or Taylor either.  From my perspective I dont see any great, home run free agent signings at RT.  I see some workable solutions.  I think Kelvin Beachum although not one of the guys listed above could also be a good depth option.

(03-12-2023, 01:33 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Yes, but the two other years they were both below average with McGary being in the mid to high 20s and Taylor being below average both years with a horribe 17.9 in one of those.  I would be worried both Taylor and McGary have only showed success 1 year in pass protection.  In Taylor's case he still posted a total 58.7 PFF grade last year so his run blocking must not be very good.  At least McGary showed elite run blocking ability.

Eluemunor has been above average in pass protection all three years.  McGlinchey great run blocker but not so great in pass protection.  If we go by your numbers I think we should all agree McGlinchey would be a bad pick up and is not worth 15-16 million a year for someone who is not good in pass protection.   Ive never been a fan of signing McGlinchey for that reason.  Too much money for a guy who is not good in pass protection.  Im not sold on McGary or Taylor either.  From my perspective I dont see any great, home run free agent signings at RT.  I see some workable solutions.  I think Kelvin Beachum although not one of the guys listed above could also be a good depth option.

Eluemunor has such a small sample size in his previous 2 years though. Taylor, McGary and Eluemunor all had good years last year but didn't show as well previous years. I don't think any of them are clear home runs either. It's kind of a pick your poison situation. I'm also completely out on McGlinchey.

From my thinking, McGlinchey is going to be asking for too much and Taylor is going to be near or at the same range. McGary will be behind them but it remains to be seen how far behind. 

Guys like Beachum and Fant would be ok for depth but i wouldn't bring them in to start 17+ games. Eluemunor just doesn't have the sample size or wow factor, even at his APY for me to say "let's get him!". 

My leaning is towards the guy who is a known run blocker and showed improved passpro last year, who should come in at a more reasonable price than the top couple guys. 

(03-12-2023, 02:27 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Eluemunor has such a small sample size in his previous 2 years though. Taylor, McGary and Eluemunor all had good years last year but didn't show as well previous years. I don't think any of them are clear home runs either. It's kind of a pick your poison situation. I'm also completely out on McGlinchey.

From my thinking, McGlinchey is going to be asking for too much and Taylor is going to be near or at the same range. McGary will be behind them but it remains to be seen how far behind. 

Guys like Beachum and Fant would be ok for depth but i wouldn't bring them in to start 17+ games. Eluemunor just doesn't have the sample size or wow factor, even at his APY for me to say "let's get him!". 

My leaning is towards the guy who is a known run blocker and showed improved passpro last year, who should come in at a more reasonable price than the top couple guys. 

If we pay big dough to a RT I would take Jawaan Taylor out of McGary and McGlinchey honestly. I still think he has a lot of upside.

Still like Eluemunor for value the best right now and find him the most likely.

Chargers re-signed starter Trey Pipkins for 3 years, $7.25M per year. Maybe McGary's market isn't as robust as previously thought? Offer him 4/$40M, would definitely be worth it at that price.

(03-14-2023, 05:20 PM)BuildTheWall Wrote: Chargers re-signed starter Trey Pipkins for 3 years, $7.25M per year. Maybe McGary's market isn't as robust as previously thought? Offer him 4/$40M, would definitely be worth it at that price.

Would be for that if we can't get Eluemunor in here.

You do have to wonder why teams are letting the RT's go (ATL, and Oakland). They aren't in any cap hell and should want to keep a young Tackle if they are above average. San Fran too, but they have big contracts which may be why they let theirs walk.

(03-14-2023, 05:33 PM)jj22 Wrote: You do have to wonder why teams are letting the RT's go (ATL, and Oakland). They aren't in any cap hell and should want to keep a young Tackle if they are above average. San Fran too, but they have big contracts which may be why they let theirs walk.

SF has McGlinchey's replacement already on the roster and they used that money to sign Hargrave to shore up their DL.

(03-14-2023, 05:20 PM)BuildTheWall Wrote: Chargers re-signed starter Trey Pipkins for 3 years, $7.25M per year. Maybe McGary's market isn't as robust as previously thought? Offer him 4/$40M, would definitely be worth it at that price.

If you can get McGary for that price you do it.  You could then get rid of Collins and save a little money there although with his injury I'm not sure how that all works

(03-14-2023, 06:04 PM)pulses Wrote: SF has McGlinchey's replacement already on the roster and they used that money to sign Hargrave to shore up their DL.

Colton McKivitz Ohio Valley kid then went to WVU. I bet that was a culture shock from hillbilly hell to San Francisco the exact opposite lol.

(03-14-2023, 06:09 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: If you can get McGary for that price you do it.  You could then get rid of Collins and save a little money there although with his injury I'm not sure how that all works

Would have to give Collins a settlement of some kind, cannot just cut the man while he is injured.

But yeah, McGary for that price sounds like a steal, do it.

(03-14-2023, 06:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Would have to give Collins a settlement of some kind, cannot just cut the man while he is injured.

But yeah, McGary for that price sounds like a steal, do it.

Yep and then you cut Mixon and either resign Perine or get Jamaal Williams and then draft a RB in the mid rounds.

(03-14-2023, 06:20 PM)pulses Wrote: Yep and then you cut Mixon and either resign Perine or get Jamaal Williams and then draft a RB in the mid rounds.

Sounds like get Jamaal Williams as Perine went to Denver...

(03-14-2023, 06:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sounds like get Jamaal Williams as Perine went to Denver...

I'm fine with that. They are both very similar players.

(03-11-2023, 10:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Numbers crunch time. 

For a top 10 RT you want to see about 2 sacks and 22 total pressure for a season, on around 10-12K snaps. For a 32nd rated (average) RT you want to see about 5 sacks and 34 total pressures. 

10-12K snaps...damn...that's really low.  Not sure Munoz was that good.

(03-14-2023, 06:50 PM)pulses Wrote: I'm fine with that. They are both very similar players.

They are actually. Nice call.