(03-15-2023, 04:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Historically, this team drafts well at WR and RB.  They can find quality skill players in any draft, and stay low budget at those positions.  Where they have struggled in the past decade is with OL, too many swings and misses. That is where some money must be invested, in keeping Joe Burrow healthy and deadly.

This is the thing, we cant afford to always have 4-5 free agents on the oline.

If I knew the meatheads who evaluate the oline in the draft were halfway competent this would be an easier sell.  I don't want to say that we suck at drafting oline, because that is too complimentary of their dreadful efforts the past decade.  We must cease with the terrible misses. and hit on at least 2 solid blockers out of the gate.  (If Volson improves he could be one...?)

I would trade Tee and Boyd if I was for sure getting a unit comparable to the Eagles oline this past season.

(03-15-2023, 04:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Historically, this team drafts well at WR and RB.  They can find quality skill players in any draft, and stay low budget at those positions.  Where they have struggled in the past decade is with OL, too many swings and misses. That is where some money must be invested, in keeping Joe Burrow healthy and deadly.

Look at the RB the Chiefs found in the 7th round last year.  Doubt we'll get that lucky but the Bengals should be able to find a decent back in the mid to latter rounds of the draft.  And maybe they should focus on the one that has the best blocking ability.  If he can move the chains even better.

(03-15-2023, 05:09 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Look at the RB the Chiefs found in the 7th round last year.  Doubt we'll get that lucky but the Bengals should be able to find a decent back in the mid to latter rounds of the draft.  And maybe they should focus on the one that has the best blocking ability.  If he can move the chains even better.

KC also had 3 bona fide stud o-linemen for him to run behind.  It helps.

(03-15-2023, 05:03 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This is the thing, we cant afford to always have 4-5 free agents on the oline.

If I knew the meatheads who evaluate the oline in the draft were halfway competent this would be an easier sell.  I don't want to say that we suck at drafting oline, because that is too complimentary of their dreadful efforts the past decade.  We must cease with the terrible misses. and hit on at least 2 solid blockers out of the gate.  (If Volson improves he could be one...?)

I would trade Tee and Boyd if I was for sure getting a unit comparable to the Eagles oline this past season.

I completely understand and agree with that, I guess that I should have elaborated a bit more.  Just because they have missed with so many picks on OL doesn't mean that you stop drafting OL.  Missing on a few picks is bad luck, missing on a bunch, even the highly drafted ones is an indication that you're not getting the talent developed like you should be.  

However, this particular offseason, the OL is still incomplete.  It's going to take adding at least another, possibly two free agents to fill out the starters and have some reliable depth for when the inevitable injuries do happen.  By all means I think the Bengals should also be drafting two OL this year, one early and one mid-rounds or later.  Having a guy like Jackson Carman prove to not be worthless is a huge shot in the arm, but the rest of the depth was putrid and unable to even hold their own, with fresh legs compared to guys that had been playing all year no less.

(03-15-2023, 05:11 PM)samhain Wrote: KC also had 3 bona fide stud o-linemen for him to run behind.  It helps.

No doubt it helps but that kid is a stud, very powerful RB.  They're out there, just need to find them.

(03-15-2023, 05:09 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Look at the RB the Chiefs found in the 7th round last year.  Doubt we'll get that lucky but the Bengals should be able to find a decent back in the mid to latter rounds of the draft.  And maybe they should focus on the one that has the best blocking ability.  If he can move the chains even better.

15 running backs were taken day 3 of the 2022 NFL draft only 3 contributed. The percentage chance of a day 3 running back being successful is not as good as people keep trying to point out with Isiah Pacheco.

(03-15-2023, 04:58 PM)samhain Wrote: I honestly thought we learned something from the Kansas City game this year.  The Bengals had better weapons, a healthier qb, and a good enough defense.  The difference was the o-lines and the run game.  

Keeping all 3 of those guys is going to make building a good o-line very difficult.  The Burrow era narrative of a superstar qb being limited by subpar line play could be a theme for the length of his time here if they go for lots of shiny toys over adequate blockers.

The difference was injuries.  End of question.  If we didn't have 3 offensive linemen go down late in the year, it's a different ball game.

I get what you are saying, but you can't go out and pay 10 offensive linemen just so you have depth.  

We obviously have some needs to fill (FS, RT, TE) but those are manageable.

(03-15-2023, 05:09 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Look at the RB the Chiefs found in the 7th round last year.  Doubt we'll get that lucky but the Bengals should be able to find a decent back in the mid to latter rounds of the draft.  And maybe they should focus on the one that has the best blocking ability.  If he can move the chains even better.

That wasn't luck, KC had a line that any eager back could gain yardage behind.  They just had a miss on drafting CEH, he turned out to be pretty much an over-drafted dud.  Any and every other back they have used has had moderate to good success behind their lines.

(03-15-2023, 05:17 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The difference was injuries.  End of question.  If we didn't have 3 offensive linemen go down late in the year, it's a different ball game.

I get what you are saying, but you can't go out and pay 10 offensive linemen just so you have depth.  

We obviously have some needs to fill (FS, RT, TE) but those are manageable.

Hearsay.  KC's best player and MVP of the league was playing hurt.  They also were down several receivers before and throughout that game.  Let' not act like KC was at full strength in that game, because they were not.

(03-15-2023, 04:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Some aren't going to like the sound of this, but paying huge money to two top recevers, along with a premier franchise QB is just wasteful.  It robs the team of the ability to put a strong "rest of the team" around them.  When you have a true franchise QB like Joe Burrow, he will develop average players into stars.  Just put the spending where it belongs, on an OL and solid defense.

Agree 100% and have been saying this all along. 

(03-15-2023, 05:15 PM)Synric Wrote: 15 running backs were taken day 3 of the 2022 NFL draft only 3 contributed. The percentage chance of a day 3 running back being successful is not as good as people keep trying to point out with Isiah Pacheco.

I dont disagree, but this is another instance that KC just does things better in the draft, a 7th rounder with over 40 starts and 600 carries in college.. he had plenty of tape.

We on the other hand draft a RB in the 6th round, who was suspended for an entire season, with only 5 starts in 5 years at RB, and a whopping 16 carries for 70 yards as a 5th year senior.

We draft Carmen over Creed, we dont consider Smith, and we let Thuney walk.  Their entire IOL could all be here today.

Yes, Im a little salty....

(03-15-2023, 03:43 PM)GodFather Wrote: Obviously we are keeping Joe, so that is a no brainer. But keeping Tee with Joe and soon Chase, thats going to cost us alot of money. I know people aren't happy with so many players leaving in FA but this is what happens when we sign the big contracts coming up. Something will have to give.

I am just ECSTATIC we still have Lou and the other coaches. That is key. Those guys are going to find people to fit the system. Let them work their magic. They haven't let us down yet so let just let the process play out this offseason with FA and the draft.

We will be back on top competing for the ring this upcoming year...and the guys who left most likely wont but they will be getting whats most important to them..their money.

Absolutely if that is what happens, sure sounds like we really want to bring back Tee, but we will suffer somewhere else putting that 
much money into our weapons. Never know though, we said we also wanted to bring back our own this FA but that may have meant 
our big guys and not the smaller ones. Bell was really the only one who was a big time starter for us that was unexpected. We can 
still upgrade where we lost players and maybe even get players at a bargain the longer we wait.

With Tee I think we have to act like we are bringing him back, even if we aren't. It is a good strategy that could end in a nice trade 
for us and adding somewhere else which could help the team even more. Putting all your money into 1 basket should only be used 
on the QB that takes you to the promised land for the most part and the trenches cannot be ignored in front of him.

We have been trying to build up the OL and I thought did well last year, was starting to really work until LC went down, now we need 
to add a RT to keep that going. The interior is no longer a problem. In the end we will have to wait and see, Tee helps on those deep
fades down the sideline and he is one of the best at this but he also has been banged up at times and this can be a big gamble if we
do pay him big dough.

Feel like a broken record but we're not going to sign Higgins to a longterm contract. If they do then they will not sign Chase to a. Contract extension.

(03-15-2023, 04:43 PM)jj22 Wrote: We still have 2 more years with Tee, and 4 more with Chase. He shouldn't be the focus right now. Neither should Chase. We should be trying to win in 2023. Their approach is very disappointing.

No, this is Tee's final year and Chase has 2 seasons left on his contract with a possible 3rd if the Bengals exercise the 5th year option that is available for 1st round draft picks.  If Tee is not extended this year he is a free agent after the season and we could lose him with nothing to show for it.   That is why people are saying trade him if we cant get an extension so at least you can draft his replacement.  You cant lose Tee and get nothing for him..

As for people saying "use the tag on Tee next year" its not going to happen.  The tag is the average of the top 5 paid WRs.  Do you see the Bengals or any team paying Tee the same kind of money as Davante Adams, Tyreek Hill, DeAndre Hopkins, Cooper Kupp or A.J. Brown?   You're going to pay Tee top 5 money?   I think he is a very good WR but he is not top 5 and I dont see anybody paying him like a top 5.  

We're not paying Tee AND Chase.

If they do, they're extremely dumb.

(03-15-2023, 05:15 PM)Synric Wrote: 15 running backs were taken day 3 of the 2022 NFL draft only 3 contributed. The percentage chance of a day 3 running back being successful is not as good as people keep trying to point out with Isiah Pacheco.

It's not a complete crap shoot, though. Some FOs/Scouting Departments are just better than others and get much better odds while others just really don't seem to ever have a chance. I think of the Raiders having 6 1st round picks '19-'21, with none of them got their 5th year option picked up and only 1 of them is still on the team now. The odds aren't equal for all teams. Lol

On the other hand it always felt like the Steelers, despite all their dirty scumbag ways, was always able to just find late round WR talent at will.

(03-15-2023, 05:03 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This is the thing, we cant afford to always have 4-5 free agents on the oline...

Cappa is making 8.7 million per year
Collins is making 7 million per year
Karras is making 6 million per year

That's just 21.7 million invested in free agents.  That's not a lot of money being spent on the Oline.  We are not going out spending the money like K.C. did with Joe Thuney (16 million) or Jawaan Taylor (20 million)

(03-15-2023, 07:28 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Cappa is making 8.7 million per year
Collins is making 7 million per year
Karras is making 6 million per year

That's just 21.7 million invested in free agents.  That's not a lot of money being spent on the Oline.  We are not going out spending the money like K.C. did with Joe Thuney (16 million) or Jawaan Taylor (20 million)

Do you think the prices are staying like this?  Ben Powers, 1 year younger and consistently graded lower than Cappa just signed a 4 year 52M deal.  I think we managed some awesome deals last season, not sure we can count on that every year with the cap getting higher.

It would be nice to actually draft a stud we can pay rookie scale to for 4-5 years...  

(03-15-2023, 04:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Some aren't going to like the sound of this, but paying huge money to two top recevers, along with a premier franchise QB is just wasteful.  It robs the team of the ability to put a strong "rest of the team" around them.  When you have a true franchise QB like Joe Burrow, he will develop average players into stars.  Just put the spending where it belongs, on an OL and solid defense.

I couldn't agree more. In a perfect world I would love to keep Tee. But Burrows protection needs to continue to improve. I think we can find the other guys that we need to compliment Chase thru the draft. Also this free agency has shown that the idea that players chase rings is overstated. But you can find skill players on prove it deals that would like to have Burrow show case there skills. I love Boyd but seeing what his production has become I would've been fine moving on if it meant we could've kept Bell. I'm afraid we don't realize how special of a unit we had on defense and I'm afraid our two veteran safeties were a big part of it. We can replace that but I think it's gonna take a year or two and by then other parts of our defense will be aging out. I think we're trying to think to much about the future when our window is right now.

(03-15-2023, 07:28 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Cappa is making 8.7 million per year
Collins is making 7 million per year
Karras is making 6 million per year

That's just 21.7 million invested in free agents.  That's not a lot of money being spent on the Oline.  We are not going out spending the money like K.C. did with Joe Thuney (16 million) or Jawaan Taylor (20 million)

That’s correct we aren’t so far. We are investing in Tee and they didn’t Tyreek. There’s the debate. Just now Cynthia Frelund on NFL Free Agent Frenzy said start here about KC…. they had 9 freaking rookies seriously contribute.