(03-29-2023, 12:08 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He was blindsided huh? Now he knows how Joe feels.

Yep and not sure he should have been in the loop on who the Bengals were interested in signing anyway. If they told him ? He probably would have same reaction just for Bengals seeking his replacement and most likely still demand trade. Or they would have to coddle him and try to reinsure him to be the man they believe in even though they tried to sign somebody at his position with a better resume 

Just feel if Brown was not landed it would have became a problem the Bengals did not need if Jonah was included in the process. 

He should be smart enough to understand this imo.

 

Jonah is an interesting situation. I ask myself, why have the Bengals not given Jonah's agent permission to seek a trade?

I know many devalue Jonah, but to devalue the LT position is another story.

For all we know, the Bengals may have a potential deal already in place, but it depends on how the draft falls. If Bengals take a T with pick 28, may mean they will deal Jonah.

Or another team may be targeting a specific tackle, but if that T is gone, they want Jonah.

Many assume since they are hearing nothing from the Bengals FO, no discussions are or have taken place for Jonah. We will find out in about 30 days in my opinion. our 1st round draft pick can be telling, FO is going to trade him or FO is going to keep him and possibly cut Collins, or keep them all.

One other take, Bengals could keep him and then see if another team loses an OT and is desperate. He can still be traded prior the trade deadline, it would be for 2024 equity and cap space, but equity all the same.

(03-29-2023, 12:08 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He was blindsided huh? Now he knows how Joe feels.

Snap...

(03-29-2023, 07:36 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Oh, so I’m not allowed to have an opinion?  My thinking that a LT that have given up 20 sacks over two years stinks?

Obviously we have different opinion on the value of Jonah Williams.  It seems like the bengals, and most organizations in the NFL are seeing what I do.

Take your blinders off, and keep your mouth shut.  No need for personal insults Frank.

No, but there is also the possibility of acknowledging he was playing injured when he gave up many of those sacks. Was he good, no. Was he hurt some of that time, yes. It's really just that simple. 

(03-29-2023, 10:47 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Yep and not sure he should have been in the loop on who the Bengals were interested in signing anyway. If they told him ? He probably would have same reaction just for Bengals seeking his replacement and most likely still demand trade. Or they would have to coddle him and try to reinsure him to be the man they believe in even though they tried to sign somebody at his position with a better resume 

Just feel if Brown was not landed it would have became a problem the Bengals did not need if Jonah was included in the process. 

He should be smart enough to understand this imo.

 

Anyone remember the temper tantrum Whit threw when they took two tackles to replace him? While he took a better course, saying "well you wasted two draft picks" instead of requesting a trade, it pissed him off as well. No one likes to be replaced, it's human nature. Not sure why so many are coming down on Williams for being normal. 

I have some empathy for Jonah's situation. He was fairly solid in 2021, his only fully healthy (for the most part) season. Last year, I'm not convinced he was ever truly right physically. I actually hope not, because he seemed to slip even before the first Cleveland game. He battled back after the dislocated knee and his play obviously suffered for it. He then suffered another injury which ended the rest of his season. His "reward" was getting his replacement brought aboard.

I'm just giving his perspective on this. I realize football is ultimately a business, and I'm all for upgrading any position when the opportunity presents itself. But it must be really frustrating from his angle.

(03-29-2023, 07:36 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Oh, so I’m not allowed to have an opinion?  My thinking that a LT that have given up 20 sacks over two years stinks?

Obviously we have different opinion on the value of Jonah Williams.  It seems like the bengals, and most organizations in the NFL are seeing what I do.

Take your blinders off, and keep your mouth shut.  No need for personal insults Frank.

FranBooth is a Jonah Stan for some reason. Jonah is avg, so FrankBooth thinks he's good enough.

Jonah Williams remonds me of Andy Dalton in that when he has a bad day at the office he absolute sucks. That kind of player can't be on the roster. The floor is way too low. The comments coming out of the owners meetings says what I said when they drafted him: Projected better to be a decent Guard in the right system. Not good enough to be a reliable NFL Tackle.

Yet, FrankBooth riding Jonah's nuts and can't get enough of him.

(03-29-2023, 12:08 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He was blindsided huh? Now he knows how Joe feels.

Whoa, ***** slap!!! 

(03-29-2023, 01:15 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Not surprising. After listening to Steven Radicevic's interview, I think a lot of people were blindsided. Brown's agent reached out to the team. That's been a big change for the FO. Agents are contacting the Bengals because their clients want to come here.

Yes sir Bengal Dude. It is a New Dey.

(03-29-2023, 09:37 AM)bengaloo Wrote: If I were Jonah I would be wanting out as well. Who wants to go from a high draft pick to having to be moved because they aren't cutting it, and are most likely going to end up being beat out by a guy who was labeled a bust until he came in and outperformed them in a major way, at a new, lesser important position nonetheless? I dont know if Jonah can beat out Carman, or Collins when he's healthy. The dude literally has a shot at being buried on the depth chart by the end of the year if he doesnt show big improvement. He definitely ain't no glass-eater.

All great points as usual Bengaloo. One thing about Carman, he doesn't get pushed around. Jonah does and like you said, he doesn't
fit here anyways with the physicality we brought in. Jonah is much more of a finesse type of OL. I would bet if Jonah is here and it is an
open competition at RT Carman wins the job and that would really put the kibosh on Jonah's big money status.

(03-29-2023, 10:47 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Yep and not sure he should have been in the loop on who the Bengals were interested in signing anyway. If they told him ? He probably would have same reaction just for Bengals seeking his replacement and most likely still demand trade. Or they would have to coddle him and try to reinsure him to be the man they believe in even though they tried to sign somebody at his position with a better resume 

Just feel if Brown was not landed it would have became a problem the Bengals did not need if Jonah was included in the process. 

He should be smart enough to understand this imo.

 

Nice post Go Cards. 

BTW, this was exactly why I was criticizing Brian Callahan and Pollack saying they weren't going to move Jonah a month ago.

That made it even more of a blindside hit to Jonah. Should of said we are open to whatever gets our 5 best OL on the field starting.

(03-29-2023, 01:24 PM)PDub80 Wrote: FranBooth is a Jonah Stan for some reason. Jonah is avg, so FrankBooth thinks he's good enough.

Jonah Williams remonds me of Andy Dalton in that when he has a bad day at the office he absolute sucks. That kind of player can't be on the roster. The floor is way too low. The comments coming out of the owners meetings says what I said when they drafted him: Projected better to be a decent Guard in the right system. Not good enough to be a reliable NFL Tackle.

Yet, FrankBooth riding Jonah's nuts and can't get enough of him.

I simply point out that he has good pff grades when healthy, and yet people ignore them

those same people will then praise a different player because of a good pff grade

so Im just pointing out hypocrisy. He's still a decent LT. Im happy that the bengals signed a more durable LT with Orlando Brown

but I am hoping Jonah stays to play RT this season

If money is the concern because of playing LT vs RT, I would hope not.
Lane Johnson and Ryan Ramczyk have proven that RTs get paid too.
Both are in the Top 10 in AAV among all OTs.
If Jonah could play RT at a high level, he'll probably get paid more than if he only went off his LT tape.

(03-29-2023, 02:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If money is the concern because of playing LT vs RT, I would hope not.
Lane Johnson and Ryan Ramczyk have proven that RTs get paid too.
Both are in the Top 10 in AAV among all OTs.
If Jonah could play RT at a high level, he'll probably get paid more than if he only went off his LT tape.

Absolutely, play better and you get paid better...

(03-29-2023, 12:14 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Jonah is an interesting situation. I ask myself, why have the Bengals not given Jonah's agent permission to seek a trade?

I know many devalue Jonah, but to devalue the LT position is another story.

For all we know, the Bengals may have a potential deal already in place, but it depends on how the draft falls. If Bengals take a T with pick 28, may mean they will deal Jonah.

Or another team may be targeting a specific tackle, but if that T is gone, they want Jonah.

Many assume since they are hearing nothing from the Bengals FO, no discussions are or have taken place for Jonah. We will find out in about 30 days in  my opinion. our 1st round draft pick can be telling, FO is going to trade him or FO is going to keep him and possibly cut Collins, or keep them all.

One other take, Bengals could keep him and then see if another team loses an OT and is desperate. He can still be traded prior the trade deadline, it would be for 2024 equity and cap space, but equity all the same.

Word is we have turned down 3rd round picks already. Word is from a poster claiming to have sources in the building. Posts on Cincy Jungle. Feel free to treat with skepticism, but the poster has had early Brown info & good info on Scott/Rapp. 

(03-29-2023, 02:52 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Word is we have turned down 3rd round picks already. Word is from a poster claiming to have sources in the building. Posts on Cincy Jungle. Feel free to treat with skepticism, but the poster has had early Brown info & good info on Scott/Rapp. 

I hope not. I’d take a third and run. Get the cap space and move on


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(03-29-2023, 02:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If money is the concern because of playing LT vs RT, I would hope not.
Lane Johnson and Ryan Ramczyk have proven that RTs get paid too.
Both are in the Top 10 in AAV among all OTs.
If Jonah could play RT at a high level, he'll probably get paid more than if he only went off his LT tape.

Yeah, but all other things being equal, the right side is not going to get paid what the left side does. 

(03-29-2023, 02:58 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yeah, but all other things being equal, the right side is not going to get paid what the left side does. 

All things are not equal based on performance and results.

A great RT or LT is paid well.
An average LT or RT is not paid well.

If Jonah wants to be paid well, it needs to be a team player and excel regardless of position.
If he pigeon holed himself as only a LT, that is on him.

He is getting paid as of now 12.6 million for 2023. He may not be good enough to start. If so, the Bengals should be upset not the guy who gets 12.6 million for doing little to nothing.

Jonah needs to put on his big boy pants and prove he deserves a great 2nd contract and financial security for life.

(03-29-2023, 02:52 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Word is we have turned down 3rd round picks already. Word is from a poster claiming to have sources in the building. Posts on Cincy Jungle. Feel free to treat with skepticism, but the poster has had early Brown info & good info on Scott/Rapp. 

Many fans devalue Jonah, not me. If a 2nd was offered and they said no then I trust their long term plan for Jonah. They will be shelling out 12.6 million so their money and their decision

(03-29-2023, 02:10 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I simply point out that he has good pff grades when healthy, and yet people ignore them

those same people will then praise a different player because of a good pff grade

so Im just pointing out hypocrisy. He's still a decent LT. Im happy that the bengals signed a more durable LT with Orlando Brown

but I am hoping Jonah stays to play RT this season

Do you feel like there's more to players than a PFF grade?

I get using it as a tool or referencing it, but I'm not sure averaging out a guy's game by game grades paints a complete picture. Especially olinemen. The ramifictions of Jonah's mistakes are amplified due to his position. Fair or unfair, it's hard to ignore leading the league in sacks given up and injury history in a league with such a short season and games being so meaningful.

Jonah might avg out as avg, but his bad games or bad plays have TERRIBLE consequences. Where as a WR or RB has a bad game it's not felt as much.

Edit: I think it says a lot about Jonah and who he THINKS he is that he threw a fit and requested a trade. How many guys in that locker room talk about and do whatever is needed for the team? MOST of them. Jonah gets asked to switch to a different side and he makes it all about himself. That sucks and says everything I need to know. It's not like they told him to go be a fullback or TE. He is a run of the mill LT. Might be a great RT, yet the guy refuses to try it.

(03-29-2023, 02:10 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I simply point out that he has good pff grades when healthy, and yet people ignore them

those same people will then praise a different player because of a good pff grade

so Im just pointing out hypocrisy. He's still a decent LT. Im happy that the bengals signed a more durable LT with Orlando Brown

but I am hoping Jonah stays to play RT this season

PFF also shows that he has been a better run blocker than pass protector.  Even in 2021 the best PFF grade of his career, Jonah still allowed 8 sacks in regular season and another 2 more in post season.  He is just not that good protecting the QB which should be priority #1.

If the Bengals really were offered a 3rd they should seriously consider it. If they get a 2nd, they need to take it