(04-29-2023, 08:12 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: As long as nothing overly detrimental comes from this latest incident, I fully expect that the team will honor his contract. That's what MB and the Bengals have almost always done. MB is old school and a man of his word. When he gives it, he keeps it. I don't think that Collins or Jonah is going anywhere anytime soon either.

I would agree with that unless they pick up someone that gets released from another team.

(04-30-2023, 10:47 PM)Joelist Wrote: If we get the Mixon we saw versus Buffalo it will be good. He actually was not dancing, just hit the hole hard and fast and did not go down instantly.

Unfortunately that Mixon only comes out after the adrenaline rush of pointing a gun in a woman's face while threatening to shoot her. 

(04-30-2023, 12:56 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I don’t think he holds all the cards here.  There are several free agent rbs out there that don’t have current legal issues potentially hanging over them.  If asked to take a 50% pay cut or so here vs seeing what he’d get on the open market he’d be wise to sign and stay


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Yep. It's not like Mixon has leverage. A very so-so year and missed a few games with injury. Bengals hands would be tied alot more if he was a consistent 3 down back who could pass pro and coming off a 1300-1400 yard year.

Zac's remarks appear to solidify Mixon as RB1 for 2023. I speculate Zac is speaking for ownership and Duke with his comments but I suppose there is always a possibility ownership or Duke still move to release Mixon June 1.

(05-01-2023, 09:43 AM)higgy100 Wrote: Yep. It's not like Mixon has leverage. A very so-so year and missed a few games with injury. Bengals hands would be tied alot more if he was a consistent 3 down back who could pass pro and coming off a 1300-1400 yard year.

They originally spelled with Perine to limit his touches in a game. They wanted him fresh at the end of the year. Perine is strong as an ox and was great at chipping on DE’s and blitzers.

I can't post the HTML table here, so no real great way of posting it but I was doing some work this morning on PFF's Elusiveness Rating. I think it ends up being a valuable metric to use to identify running backs who are able to create value by themselves. The metric creates a ratio of missed tackles forced to total touches and then calculates the impact of those missed tackles forced by looking at what the players average yards after contact is. So, high elusiveness rating means they are forcing a lot of missed tackles that also provide value and allow them to gain more yardage after the fact.

I took it a little bit further and transformed it into a + stat. Baseball fans will be familiar with it, but I transformed the metric to have 100 reflect league average. 110 is good, 120 is great, 130 is amazing. Anything below 90 is really bad, and below 80 is legendarily bad. Mixon scored an 86. He was in the 10th percentile of all running backs with a minimum of 50 carries in 2022. The interesting thing is that these ratings tend to cluster throughout a players career and are predictive to a certain degree. Mixon throughout his career has been floating between "very bad" and "below average" for the most part when it comes to elusiveness. 

Samaje Perine was slightly above average in 2022, scoring a 103.

(05-01-2023, 01:17 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I can't post the HTML table here, so no real great way of posting it but I was doing some work this morning on PFF's Elusiveness Rating. I think it ends up being a valuable metric to use to identify running backs who are able to create value by themselves. The metric creates a ratio of missed tackles forced to total touches and then calculates the impact of those missed tackles forced by looking at what the players average yards after contact is. So, high elusiveness rating means they are forcing a lot of missed tackles that also provide value and allow them to gain more yardage after the fact.

I took it a little bit further and transformed it into a + stat. Baseball fans will be familiar with it, but I transformed the metric to have 100 reflect league average. 110 is good, 120 is great, 130 is amazing. Anything below 90 is really bad, and below 80 is legendarily bad. Mixon scored an 86. He was in the 10th percentile of all running backs with a minimum of 50 carries in 2022. The interesting thing is that these ratings tend to cluster throughout a players career and are predictive to a certain degree. Mixon throughout his career has been floating between "very bad" and "below average" for the most part when it comes to elusiveness. 

Samaje Perine was slightly above average in 2022. 

Amazing with much more advanced metrics than is available online that they pay a ton of money for that they haven’t dumped him a long time ago but let Perine walk. They could have easily opted to keep Perine on a much more friendly deal and freed up all that cap space. And with his recent issues with road rage and shooting incident so easy to move on. Wow! He must get them coffee and donuts all day.

Seriously for whatever reason they like something about him and trust they know the facts better than us.

Some of yous are acting as if Mixon is an absolute nobody with zero skills and abilities and they're only paying him because of course he must have some dirt on Mike Brown..
He has his flaws like everyone else, but he's never really had a great offensive line to clear holes for him.
I suspect that Joe will have a much better season if the line pans out like we're all hoping. Is he overpaid? Sure, but so is everyone else in the game making multiples of millions of dollars. He didn't have multiple 1000 yard seasons for no reason at all running behind sub par offensive lines.Too bad he didn't have great O-lines in previous seasons. Joe Mixon would have run for 2000 yards several seasons if that had been the case.
Let's not pretend that just any schmuck could do what Mixon has done. He's been able to clear 1000 yard seasons behind some of the worse offensive lines in the league and that was no mere coincidence. Ask the other popular Joe about the quality of o-line play..

I sure hope we restructure his contract still. He is overpaid for a RB that cannot protect our QB and he even seemed unwilling at times
to do so which I find unacceptable. Mixon is still a good pass catcher and he doesn't fumble so he has some value if he gets his head out
of his ass off the field and stays away from hand guns. He got a concussion or two last year and this could hurt any chance at him getting
better where his weaknesses are as well.

Good thing we drafted Chase Brown, really like this guy and he is of high character and can pass protect.

(05-01-2023, 01:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I sure hope we restructure his contract still. He is overpaid for a RB that cannot protect our QB and he even seemed unwilling at times
to do so which I find unacceptable Mixon is still a good pass catcher and he doesn't fumble so he has some value if he gets his head out
of his ass off the field and stays away from hand guns. He got a concussion or two last year and this could hurt any chance at him getting
better where his weaknesses are as well.

Good thing we drafted Chase Brown, really like this guy and he is of high character and can pass protect.

I don’t think his teammates or staff would put up with that at all. I think you are wrong there Nate. I’ve said this before Joe is nowhere close to the brightest lightbulb in any room. He’s physical. But I think pass blocking takes a lot of awareness and film study. But his pass pro deficiency is way overrated. Perine was very good. But it doesn’t matter they want to rest him and in third and medium to long they are going to Tee or Chase.

(05-01-2023, 01:47 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I don’t think his teammates or staff would put up with that at all. I think you are wrong there Nate. I’ve said this before Joe is nowhere close to the brightest lightbulb in any room. He’s physical. But I think pass blocking takes a lot of awareness and film study. But his pass pro deficiency is way overrated. Perine was very good. But it doesn’t matter they want to rest him and in third and medium to long they are going to Tee or Chase.

Yeah, maybe the concussions made him even more of a dull bulb LMAO!!!

Just messin', you are right on who they go to in those 3rd and long situations, I hope Chase Brown really helps here, I think he will.

(05-01-2023, 01:24 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Amazing with much more advanced metrics than is available online that they pay a ton of money for that they  haven’t dumped him a long time ago but let Perine walk. They could have easily opted to keep Perine on a much more friendly deal and freed up all that cap space. And with his recent issues with road rage and shooting incident so easy to move on. Wow! He must get them coffee and donuts all day.

Seriously for whatever reason they like something about him and trust they know the facts better than us.

someone, anyone posts about Mixon that has any negativity whatsoever:


Soonerpeace: 

(05-01-2023, 03:13 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: someone, anyone posts about Mixon that has any negativity whatsoever:


Soonerpeace: 

And have for a long time.

Dehner made an interesting comment on today's live room. He seems to think the team is hoping for CEH to get released from KC and reunite him with Burrow.

(05-01-2023, 03:13 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: someone, anyone posts about Mixon that has any negativity whatsoever:


Soonerpeace: 

Not at all, No one has said that Mixon's pay = production, and of course he has his flaws, just as he has his positives, isn't that just about every NFL player out there? Mixon has been a big part of us getting to the SB and AFCCG 2x, and the goal this year is SB again, so the Bengals are all in, this doesn't even take into account that the Browns like to honor their contracts, which has been pointed out multiple times to you.

Everyone and their mothers know Mixon likely won't be back in 2024, at least not at the pay he's currently getting. He will have to take a significant reduction to remain a Bengal. I don't know what's so hard for you to understand. 

(05-02-2023, 01:21 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Dehner made an interesting comment on today's live room. He seems to think the team is hoping for CEH to get released from KC and reunite him with Burrow.

Not sure about that for this year, seems like another Media based rumor. First things first though, KC would have to release him, until there's rumors about that happening, then we can entertain rumors about CEH coming here.

(05-02-2023, 03:06 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Not at all, No one has said that Mixon's pay = production, and of course he has his flaws, just as he has his positives, isn't that just about every NFL player out there? Mixon has been a big part of us getting to the SB and AFCCG 2x, and the goal this year is SB again, so the Bengals are all in, this doesn't even take into account that the Browns like to honor their contracts, which has been pointed out multiple times to you.

Everyone and their mothers know Mixon likely won't be back in 2024, at least not at the pay he's currently getting. He will have to take a significant reduction to remain a Bengal. I don't know what's so hard for you to understand. 

This is a bit ironic. I fully understand that Mixon is likely going nowhere. I am not saying anything otherwise, nor have I ever really stated that I thought he would be released. I have stated that I personally would release him, but not that I think the Bengals will. I am simply stating that he isn't very good and certainly not worth his salary. I have even said that if he were to have taken a pay cut, it would be more palpable. 

You're the one misunderstanding my position, not the other way around. My position is very simple - Mixon isn't very good. We have a considerable amount of evidence that points to this being true. I understand, and have understood, everything that you claim I am missing. Football is my favorite sport and I have a background in statistics. I do football analysis as a hobby and post findings as they pertain to Cincinnati, good or bad. 

(05-02-2023, 03:06 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Not at all, No one has said that Mixon's pay = production, and of course he has his flaws, just as he has his positives, isn't that just about every NFL player out there? Mixon has been a big part of us getting to the SB and AFCCG 2x, and the goal this year is SB again, so the Bengals are all in, this doesn't even take into account that the Browns like to honor their contracts, which has been pointed out multiple times to you.

Everyone and their mothers know Mixon likely won't be back in 2024, at least not at the pay he's currently getting. He will have to take a significant reduction to remain a Bengal. I don't know what's so hard for you to understand. 



Not sure about that for this year, seems like another Media based rumor. First things first though, KC would have to release him, until there's rumors about that happening, then we can entertain rumors about CEH coming here.

It’s funny people live and die on every word the coaches make. They examine and decipher them for any hint of the true meaning. If there was any chance Joe was not likely coming back Zac would never have said “ His future is here with the team. I like Joe Mixon." Zac Taylor #Bengals. Zac isn’t going to say future. He would have said Joe is our starter and a valuable member of our team.

(05-02-2023, 03:21 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: This is a bit ironic. I fully understand that Mixon is likely going nowhere. I am not saying anything otherwise, nor have I ever really stated that I thought he would be released. I have stated that I personally would release him, but not that I think the Bengals will. I am simply stating that he isn't very good and certainly not worth his salary. I have even said that if he were to have taken a pay cut, it would be more palpable. 

You're the one misunderstanding my position, not the other way around. My position is very simple - Mixon isn't very good. We have a considerable amount of evidence that points to this being true. I understand, and have understood, everything that you claim I am missing. Football is my favorite sport and I have a background in statistics. I do football analysis as a hobby and post findings as they pertain to Cincinnati, good or bad. 

Good to the first part.

Since you love stats, What was Mixon Pass Catching Last year? Where did he rank amongst other PC RB's? 

Mixon wasn't great in the run game last year, but in my opinion, where he REALLY let the offense down was in the pass game.

This offense NEEDED him to make plays on all of those check down passes when defenses were playing cover 2 against us and Mixon just wasn't able to come through. He couldnt make guys miss and couldn't make plays catching out of the backfield.

This is where Chase Brown is going to shine. It's still crazy to me though that the Bengals are going to pay Mixon 12 million this year. I mean we all know how this franchise operates and that just feels like it's still not going to happen. I dont think this saga is completely over yet.

(05-02-2023, 03:37 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Good to the first part.

Since you love stats, What was Mixon Pass Catching Last year? Where did he rank amongst other PC RB's? 

I understand that this is an attempt at a "gotcha". Mixon had a great season as a dump-off option but I have never questioned his hands or general receiving ability. Without looking, he was somewhere in the top five. What I have consistently questioned is the overall value of his production (high volume/low efficiency), his inability to create for himself and his lack of pass blocking. Due to these factors, he is largely a replacement level player in my eyes. 

We have ways of quantifying a players impact in both receiving and rushing. It is called EPA and is considered the gold standard of analysis when we are trying to identify efficient players and how much value they contribute. Mixon ranked 45th out of 73 eligible players with a minimum of 50 rushing attempts.