(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season. Getting his level of production for 13 games is fine when he's still on his rookie contract, but giving Chase any kind of an extension will pan out as well as the Ken Griffey, Jr. contract did for the Reds. On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase. Also, his height and size is the only reason this offense can work despite not having a good TE, because Higgins can run down the middle of the field and get hit and not get seriously hurt like Chase would.

Crazy talk. Chase played his entire rookie season and into the Playoffs and the SB if I am not mistaken. This year he had the hip 
fracture and missed 4 games but he was right back and playing tops after. Tee has arguably been more injury prone over both 
player's respective careers. Ja'Marr Chase might be the toughest pound for pound WR in the league and has insane upside.

You can find another Tee Higgins, you aren't going to find another Ja'Marr Chase.

(05-23-2023, 03:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To bolded:  That's a bad analogy, as KG Jr. came to the Reds late in his career, after multiple stints on the IR with Seattle.  Chase is young, and ready to maintain superstar status for at least the next decade.  

As far as valuing Higgins over Chase, I can't see it.  It appears to me that replacing big bodied boundary receivers is much easier than finding another dynamic, complete playmaker like Jamarr Chase.   

Yes sir Sunset.

(05-23-2023, 04:00 PM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: Did you really compare Chase to Griffey? Come on man!

No doubt, just crazy talk.

Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins both might be receivers but they are very different and compliment each other. They are both on the top end of their skill sets. Tee Higgins is definitely in the DK Metcalf and Deebo Samuel pay range at 24 and 23.8 APY respectively.

Update: The #Bengals want to sign WR Tee Higgins and LB Logan Wilson to long term extensions.

The team views Higgins as an "Elite" wide receiver, per @JFowlerESPN

They will focus on those deals once the Joe Burrow contract is done.https://t.co/0u8uxr2t1v pic.twitter.com/0lilqRcoHW

— Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) May 23, 2023

I'm certainly not gonna be upset if we sign Higgins. I just hope it won't end up being a mistake. I would rather put money towards protection in the future and I would think that would help out our offense even more. I think it would be better to wait until after this season for Higgins and see how it all plays out. I'm a little worried Burrow is tying his contract talks to signing Higgins. So he'll take a slight deal if we sign Higgins and who knows how much that will cost.

(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season. Getting his level of production for 13 games is fine when he's still on his rookie contract, but giving Chase any kind of an extension will pan out as well as the Ken Griffey, Jr. contract did for the Reds. On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase. Also, his height and size is the only reason this offense can work despite not having a good TE, because Higgins can run down the middle of the field and get hit and not get seriously hurt like Chase would.

Hate to be that guy, but does anyone know who this Twitter guy is? I think we've jumped the gun quite a bit relying on anything Twitter-related to be accurate.

(05-23-2023, 07:15 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: Hate to be that guy, but does anyone know who this Twitter guy is?  I think we've jumped the gun quite a bit relying on anything Twitter-related to be accurate.

He's just a guy that repeats what other people say.

(05-23-2023, 11:24 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It'd be a mistake to value Higgins over Chase.

If they sign Higgins, then they absolutely need to sign Chase as well. If you are picking one, it should be Chase. Really hope they don't dig themselves into a hole by signing Higgins while letting Chase get away.

(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season. Getting his level of production for 13 games is fine when he's still on his rookie contract, but giving Chase any kind of an extension will pan out as well as the Ken Griffey, Jr. contract did for the Reds. On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase. Also, his height and size is the only reason this offense can work despite not having a good TE, because Higgins can run down the middle of the field and get hit and not get seriously hurt like Chase would.

These comments cannot be serious.  Weezy your comment is nonsensical, I have no idea how the thought even entered your brain?  There have been zero signals that the org values Higgins over Chase....?


As to Mr. Demon, I congratulate you.  That might be the dumbest comment we have had this off season.  I am also on the fence thinking that this might be some kind of a troll post playing with all of us.  If so you got me, and Im ok with that. Better to trick me than to actually have such a low knolwedge of ball.

(05-23-2023, 01:07 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Well, almost. 

Mixon is as good as gone, and we save a smidge over $10 mil from him. Jonah's $12.5 comes off. That is $22.5+ mil. Boyd's $10.3 comes off the books, that is $33 mil, or thereabouts in savings. 

Burrow's 5th year option is $29.5 mil (compared to $11.5 this year). That is +$18 mil baked in. An extension will also need the signing bonus pro-rated in. So Burrow will likely add +$25 mil next year (before the extension kicks in the following year). Tee makes around $4 mil this year. His extension will kick in next year, IDK what contract kung fu we can do, but the cap hit is gonna be $15-$20 mil. Say $19, that is a +$15, and we are uo to +$40 mil next year for those two guys alone. 

Now, the cap itself will likely go up. Say $10-$15 mil, some of that will get eaten by baked in raises to other guys. Brown gets a bump next year, +$6 mil to cap hit. Say $5 mil or so is excess. We are still down $2 mil. $40 to $38. 

Hendrickson makes $17.5 with $2.5 dead cap. We could save $15 mil by letting him go. But premier pass rushers are hard to find. I would not count 9n him going, especially if he has a strong year (or Murphy does not). Ditto with Boyd (& Jones/Iosivas). 

There are lots of other guys that are up next year (Reader, $15.5, Awuzie $7.9) or we could save a chunk by letting go (Collins $7 mil, Hilton $6.45, BJ Hill $7 mil, Karras $6.4, Hubbard $6.1). I am all for keeping DJ, but 2 of those guys roughly equal Hendrickson. 

The benefit of Burrow's cap hit jumping so much in 2024 ($35 million-ish) is that with a good, creative contract structure, the jump in 2025 will not be as much. 

Boyd + Mixon + Jonah & Hendrickson = $47 mil or so in savings. That is enough. Likely for Wilson, too. But I am not sure it is those specific 4. Mixon & Jonah, yes. But I could see a combo of others instead of Hendrickson and/or Boyd. 

The truth of the matter is that it will be 2026 at the soonest, and likely 2027 before the AAV of all three (Burrow, Tee and Chase) hit in the same year.  The salary cap will continue to rise, especially these next two seasons.

(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season. Getting his level of production for 13 games is fine when he's still on his rookie contract, but giving Chase any kind of an extension will pan out as well as the Ken Griffey, Jr. contract did for the Reds. On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase. Also, his height and size is the only reason this offense can work despite not having a good TE, because Higgins can run down the middle of the field and get hit and not get seriously hurt like Chase would.

Welcome to the board... you definitly have been snakebit like myself as a Reds fan. 

That said... Chase is the game changer just like Griffey was. You take the risk on the elite talent as much as we all love Higgins he's replaceable. 

The Bengals are one of the few and rare NFL teams to
Have hit HRs on DRAFTING WRs in back to back years. Alot of Teams Have enough trouble trying to finding 1 franchise WR much less 2. I give you the Browns Ravens
GIants Bears Texans Panthers as recent examples
I repeat again this is a passing league. Not extending Tee
Higgins weakens this offense. I love the narrative
" Tee Higgins is replaceable he can be replaced by cheaper options. " Tee Higgins is sure thing a 100% slam
Dunk. The identity of this team is the QB and his WRs.
Why gamble and sign some journeyman WRs or hope
Your mid RD WRs make a huge jump as playmakers.
How did that pan out for the Packers after they passed
On Tee Higgins ?

The game is evolving to be offensive dominated much like
The NBA. The days of asking your defense to be stout
And having 2 RBs carry your offense is long gone.
Now you just your defense to make a couple crucial
Stops in the game and bring heat to the QB on 3rd down.

(05-23-2023, 09:54 PM)casear2727 Wrote: The truth of the matter is that it will be 2026 at the soonest, and likely 2027 before the AAV of all three (Burrow, Tee and Chase) hit in the same year.  The salary cap will continue to rise, especially these next two seasons.

Absolutely correct. 2026 would be the first year of Chase's extension/new deal. It helps that they are spaced out some. But Higgins (extension) and Burrow (5th year option + signing bonus) both have big jumps next year. Next year will likely be the biggest leap  

2023: Burrow extension pro-rated signing bonus, Higgins ext. PR SB. 
2024: Burrow 5th yr option + PRSB; Higgins extension + Chase PRSB 
2025: Burrow extension, Higgins extension, Chase 5th year O + PRSB 
2026: All 3 on extensions. 

(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season. Getting his level of production for 13 games is fine when he's still on his rookie contract, but giving Chase any kind of an extension will pan out as well as the Ken Griffey, Jr. contract did for the Reds. On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase. Also, his height and size is the only reason this offense can work despite not having a good TE, because Higgins can run down the middle of the field and get hit and not get seriously hurt like Chase would.

I’ll take the bait..

In what world is Chase “injury liability” compared to Tee? Tee seems to get banged up and have to come out of games far more often. It’s really one of the only knocks on him.

Also, people severely overuse terms like LMFAO on the internet, but it really does apply to calling Ja’Marr friggin Chase “tiny.”

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Kid is literally built like a RB.

(05-23-2023, 07:15 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: Hate to be that guy, but does anyone know who this Twitter guy is?  I think we've jumped the gun quite a bit relying on anything Twitter-related to be accurate.

This guy's credibility has definitely been questioned especially over the last year.

(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season.

On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase.

What? Lol. Chase had just the 1 injury in 2 years.

Higgins injury history 3 years in the NFL...
2020 Hamstring 
2021 Hamstring 
2021 Shoulder 
2021 Ankle
2022 Concussion
2022 Ankle
2022 Hamstring

He played less than 30% of the snaps in 3 games in 2022 because of getting hurt in games. If you go back to college, in 2019 he had a Hamstring, and in 2018 he had an Ankle. His ankles and hamstrings are always hurt. That's 3 separate ankle injuries and 4 separate hamstring injuries in the last 5 years.

"Tiny" Chase is only 14 pounds lighter than Higgins. This whole post is weird. Lol

(05-23-2023, 07:15 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: Hate to be that guy, but does anyone know who this Twitter guy is? I think we've jumped the gun quite a bit relying on anything Twitter-related to be accurate.

He was reporting on a verbal Jeremy Fowler segment from the owners meeting.

ESPN’s Fowler has broken Bengals news in the past. And frankly this is something we’ve all assumed

Do fans realize Boyd makes over 10 million per year? Boyd's replacement was drafted in 2023. We will save 9 million in future years or likely 50% of the new Higgins contract.

Bengals FO has a plan nd includes the trio of Burrow, Higgins and Chase.

I won't be upset if we resign Higgins and Wilson. Think we gotta trust the FO at this point to know what is best, and trust they know how to navigate the cap in the future. Burrow loves to throw jump balls to any 1x1 matchup, and Higgins has excelled at those (as has Chase obviously).

(05-23-2023, 09:49 PM)casear2727 Wrote: These comments cannot be serious.  Weezy your comment is nonsensical, I have no idea how the thought even entered your brain?  There have been zero signals that the org values Higgins over Chase....?


As to Mr. Demon, I congratulate you.  That might be the dumbest comment we have had this off season.  I am also on the fence thinking that this might be some kind of a troll post playing with all of us.  If so you got me, and Im ok with that. Better to trick me than to actually have such a low knolwedge of ball.

I am saying IF they prioritize Higgins over Chase. IF. Not saying they do. 

The thing with Chase is that the front office will 100000% franchise him both years if they have to. That makes him a Bengal until 2028 at least (including 5th year rookie option).

Right now you are looking at 5 more years of Chase with the option and franchise tag without an actual contract extension.

I mean, you could essentially extend Higgins until 2028 and thats the time Chase is up for an actual extension. That gives you 5 more years of those guys playing together while only having to actually extend one of them.

(05-23-2023, 12:08 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This board over values the impact Higgins has on this team. If Higgins goes, his production can be replaced. 

Having an elite QB makes Higgins expendable. Having a good DL and OL is more important than having an "elite" WR2. 

I'm not so sure. BOYD can easily be replaced. I disagree on Higgins. The depth Higgins provided when Chase went down last season is why the Bengals made the playoffs.

If Boud & Mixon's contracts go after this season, Higgins is EASILY afforded... and both have 2nd year replacements right there waiting, already on the roster from this year's draft.