(06-07-2023, 03:42 PM)Housh Wrote:  

But that would be the end . We wouldn’t have the money to do shit else


  

Better hope we draft well on the Oline (RT, RG, C will all need to be replaced after next year).

(06-07-2023, 01:15 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: And you guys want to extend both Higgins and Chase...

Give me Burrow, DJ Reader, Logan Wilson and Chase and I would be way happy.

It is just most think the FO is going to extend Tee because they seem adamant about doing so, it isn't about what we want, it is 
about what seems most likely. We need the Defense to stay good just the same as the Offense to grow. I don't know if we make it
to the AFC Championship 2 years in a row without DJ Reader. 

(06-07-2023, 02:39 PM)Sled21 Wrote: They will re-sign DJ, which is why they made no move to replace him in the draft. They are bringing in potential replacements for Hendrickson.

Makes complete sense to me. That is also why I thought we were going to re-sign DJ after the Draft.

If we would of drafted a DT early it would be different, but we drafted an End and a Corner, Trey and Chido replacements.

(06-07-2023, 02:43 PM)Sled21 Wrote: His value is astronomical, as he is probably the best run stuffer in the league. Lots of teams would overpay for him. What we have going for us is he already signed his big money contract, he has played for a perennial loser, and he seems happy here. I think he will re-sign here to finish his career chasing rings.

Yep, pay the man. He deserves it. We also drafted WR's so Tee might not be extended after all if he wants too much.

Which is fine with me. I think both Chuck Sizzle and Iosivas have great upside with Joe Burrow throwing them the ball.

(06-07-2023, 01:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Many around here act as if the winning would suddenly end if the team didn't sign both Higgins and Chase to second contracts.  I have a differing opinion on how the team resources would be best utilized.  I feel like as long as you give Joe B. a strong OL and one superstar receiver, the rest of the skill players can be elevated by Joe's leadership and quality coaching.  If you're planning on winning a Super Bowl (or several), it also takes a very strong defense as well.

I'm with ya. 

I am on team anti sign Higgins. Burrow is good enough to elevate other WRs around him. We dont need to drop half of our salary cap on the WR position, especially when we have an elite QB. Too many other important position to pay for. 

(06-07-2023, 02:39 PM)Sled21 Wrote: They will re-sign DJ, which is why they made no move to replace him in the draft. They are bringing in potential replacements for Hendrickson.

Zach Carter was drafted in the third round last year. 

(06-07-2023, 04:56 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Zach Carter was drafted in the third round last year. 

Carter is a 3-tech not a NT like Reader is...

(06-07-2023, 04:52 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I'm with ya. 

I am on team anti sign Higgins. Burrow is good enough to elevate other WRs around him. We dont need to drop half of our salary cap on the WR position, especially when we have an elite QB. Too many other important position to pay for. 

Exactly, a team needs "mid-grade" veterans to have a more complete roster as well, can't rely on a handful of stars and a bunch of dudes on rookie deals to pan out.  Guys like Hubbard for example.  He's not flashy, doesn't put up eye-popping stats, but he's solid to good, is pretty durable, and won't ever command a top tier contract.  Or maybe they'll want to extend a guy like Karras or Cappa on the OL?

(06-07-2023, 05:17 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Exactly, a team needs "mid-grade" veterans to have a more complete roster as well, can't rely on a handful of stars and a bunch of dudes on rookie deals to pan out.  Guys like Hubbard for example.  He's not flashy, doesn't put up eye-popping stats, but he's solid to good, is pretty durable, and won't ever command a top tier contract.  Or maybe they'll want to extend a guy like Karras or Cappa on the OL?

Hopefully we can extend Karras and Cappa, love these guys. I don't want us losing any of these guys trying to keep another WR either.

Nothing against Tee, but the WR we need to keep is Chase.

(06-07-2023, 05:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hopefully we can extend Karras and Cappa, love these guys. I don't want us losing any of these guys trying to keep another WR either.

Nothing against Tee, but the WR we need to keep is Chase.

That is pretty much my feelings about the situation, as well.  I love me some Tee Higgins making those sideline contested catches, but I also feel like a guy like Iosivas can develop into a similar role.  I mean, if Joe Burrow can't bring a National level Heptathalete, with amazing body control, speed and coordination up to viable level, than something's wrong here.  Just like I feel like Charlie Jones is going to be developed into our eventual slot receiver.  Myles Murphy to take over the primary edge rusher spot once Hendrickson's contract expires.  I mean they already have Turner and Battle getting reps with the 1st team, etc.

I know that fans like you and I get excited about the upside to each draft class most every year, but I've got a special strong feeling about this particular draft class.  Heck, even as I sit here writing, I imagine how the backfield would have looked with a combo of Samaje Perine paired with Rookie Chase Brown?

But as to the OP, I could see the Bengals extending Reader if he has an injury-free season.  We drafted a 3T in the 3rd round last year, this year we'll see if he has what it takes to ever have a chance of making BJ Hill expendable.  Maybe next year they make an upward move in the draft for position to select one of the best NTs in the draft? But, who knows, DJ Reader was a 5th round pick, maybe they find another hidden gem?

Read where Ed Oliver re-upped with the Bills for 4 years and $68 million (17 per). He's a guy who was highly touted coming out of Houston (college) who really hasn't lived up to his pre-draft billing. I realize he's younger, but I don't believe there are many who would choose him over Reader today for the next couple years or so. Reader is going to get paid, and it's not going to be in Cincy if they re-sign both Chase and Higgins- unless they essentially have a roster of first and second year players outside of a chosen few.

(06-07-2023, 01:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Many around here act as if the winning would suddenly end if the team didn't sign both Higgins and Chase to second contracts.  I have a differing opinion on how the team resources would be best utilized.  I feel like as long as you give Joe B. a strong OL and one superstar receiver, the rest of the skill players can be elevated by Joe's leadership and quality coaching.  If you're planning on winning a Super Bowl (or several), it also takes a very strong defense as well.

I don't necessarily believe we'll stop winning if Higgins isn't resigned.  In fact, I've advocated for awhile that we should be looking to draft a replacement.  However, I definitely get trepidation regarding letting him go.  The Bengals are a legitimate SB contender with a stacked WR corps.  We've done the "good OL, good defense, 1 superstar WR" formula.  We had success, but 6 one and dones were all we had to show for it. It's a formula that works in the regular season, but falls short in the playoffs.  We all know we can put Joe Burrow behind a trash OL with Chase and Higgins and make it to the SB, because we've all seen it.  We don't know if we we can with a change in personnel priorities.

Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter what we think.  Joe is going to structure his deal to keep his guys, so that's what's going to happen.

(06-07-2023, 07:18 PM)Whatever Wrote: I don't necessarily believe we'll stop winning if Higgins isn't resigned.  In fact, I've advocated for awhile that we should be looking to draft a replacement.  However, I definitely get trepidation regarding letting him go.  The Bengals are a legitimate SB contender with a stacked WR corps.  We've done the "good OL, good defense, 1 superstar WR" formula.  We had success, but 6 one and dones were all we had to show for it. It's a formula that works in the regular season, but falls short in the playoffs.  We all know we can put Joe Burrow behind a trash OL with Chase and Higgins and make it to the SB, because we've all seen it.  We don't know if we we can with a change in personnel priorities.

Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter what we think.  Joe is going to structure his deal to keep his guys, so that's what's going to happen.

No, we haven't, at least not with a superstar QB of the quality of Joe Burrow.  The rest of your quote speaks to the Marvin Lewis era, that is done, over.  

(06-07-2023, 05:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hopefully we can extend Karras and Cappa, love these guys. I don't want us losing any of these guys trying to keep another WR either.

Nothing against Tee, but the WR we need to keep is Chase.

(06-07-2023, 06:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is pretty much my feelings about the situation, as well.  I love me some Tee Higgins making those sideline contested catches, but I also feel like a guy like Iosivas can develop into a similar role.  I mean, if Joe Burrow can't bring a National level Heptathalete, with amazing body control, speed and coordination up to viable level, than something's wrong here.  Just like I feel like Charlie Jones is going to be developed into our eventual slot receiver.  Myles Murphy to take over the primary edge rusher spot once Hendrickson's contract expires.  I mean they already have Turner and Battle getting reps with the 1st team, etc.

I know that fans like you and I get excited about the upside to each draft class most every year, but I've got a special strong feeling about this particular draft class.  Heck, even as I sit here writing, I imagine how the backfield would have looked with a combo of Samaje Perine paired with Rookie Chase Brown?

But as to the OP, I could see the Bengals extending Reader if he has an injury-free season.  We drafted a 3T in the 3rd round last year, this year we'll see if he has what it takes to ever have a chance of making BJ Hill expendable.  Maybe next year they make an upward move in the draft for position to select one of the best NTs in the draft? But, who knows, DJ Reader was a 5th round pick, maybe they find another hidden gem?

I agree that, as long as we have Chase, Burrow will succeed, but I just think a wide receiver of Higgins' caliber makes us scary good on offense.

(06-07-2023, 01:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Exactly.
People are going to have to accept that some of these good veterans may not be here soon because of the additional cap allocated to Burrow and likely Chase and Higgins.
Some spots have to give.

So the spots you let go are the ones that got you to the Super Bowl and AFC Championship game?  The Bengals offense with Burrow, Higgins, Chase failed to put more than 20 points on the board against both Baltimore and K.C. in the playoffs.   It was the defense anchored by Reader that carried the team and gave the team a chance.  You take Reader out of this defense and the offense cant score enough to compensate.  The offense couldnt even compensate for not having Reader against Cleveland when Reader was injured.  You saw what happened on Monday Night Football.  The Bengals got ran all over with no Reader to stop a good rushing attack while Burrow with his buddy Higgins managed to put up just 13 points on offense.  Im sorry but Reader is more valuable than Higgins.

(06-07-2023, 09:55 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: So the spots you let go are the ones that got you to the Super Bowl and AFC Championship game?  The Bengals offense with Burrow, Higgins, Chase failed to put more than 20 points on the board against both Baltimore and K.C. in the playoffs.   It was the defense anchored by Reader that carried the team and gave the team a chance.  You take Reader out of this defense and the offense cant score enough to compensate.  The offense couldnt even compensate for not having Reader against Cleveland when Reader was injured.  You saw what happened on Monday Night Football.  The Bengals got ran all over with no Reader to stop a good rushing attack while Burrow with his buddy Higgins managed to put up just 13 points on offense.  Im sorry but Reader is more valuable than Higgins.

Personally, I don't care who all gets kept because they are all good, but it's unrealistic to expect every good player on this team gets kept.

(06-07-2023, 07:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: No, we haven't, at least not with a superstar QB of the quality of Joe Burrow.  The rest of your quote speaks to the Marvin Lewis era, that is done, over.  

Plenty of current teams have tried that formula to limited playoff success.  GB kept trying it with Rodgers.  The Bills have been doing it with Allen.  Most of your recent SB winners the past 5 years or so have had multiple elite threats in the passing game to go with top tier QB's or their QB has an endorsement deal with the sponsor of the stadium the SB is played in.  It's too easy to eliminate one receiving threat.  That's why that formula fails in the playoffs.  

I just really don't know why after hitting on a formula that ended decades of heartache, people want to move back to one that failed us again and again.

(06-08-2023, 02:05 AM)Whatever Wrote: Plenty of current teams have tried that formula to limited playoff success.  GB kept trying it with Rodgers.  The Bills have been doing it with Allen.  Most of your recent SB winners the past 5 years or so have had multiple elite threats in the passing game to go with top tier QB's or their QB has an endorsement deal with the sponsor of the stadium the SB is played in.  It's too easy to eliminate one receiving threat.  That's why that formula fails in the playoffs.  

I just really don't know why after hitting on a formula that ended decades of heartache, people want to move back to one that failed us again and again.

And, do you realize what prevented those teams from having greater success?  The very same thing that prevented the Bengals from returning to the Super Bowl last year, injuries.

It wasn't the team design that failed to produce, it was something outside of the organization's ability to control.

(06-07-2023, 05:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Carter is a 3-tech not a NT like Reader is...

Yep. They have not addressed the Nose, which to me means they plan on keeping the big guy.

(06-07-2023, 09:55 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: So the spots you let go are the ones that got you to the Super Bowl and AFC Championship game?  The Bengals offense with Burrow, Higgins, Chase failed to put more than 20 points on the board against both Baltimore and K.C. in the playoffs.   It was the defense anchored by Reader that carried the team and gave the team a chance.  You take Reader out of this defense and the offense cant score enough to compensate.  The offense couldnt even compensate for not having Reader against Cleveland when Reader was injured.  You saw what happened on Monday Night Football.  The Bengals got ran all over with no Reader to stop a good rushing attack while Burrow with his buddy Higgins managed to put up just 13 points on offense.  Im sorry but Reader is more valuable than Higgins.

Great post and I would say these past two years, there’s a strong argument that Reader was more important and better than Higgins. However, I don’t agree the statement holds true going forward in 2024 and on. Reader is coming off back to back injured years and will be 30 next contract. There’s a steep decline after 30.

I’d put my money into Higgins and draft/sign/trade to replace reader.

(06-08-2023, 07:54 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: And, do you realize what prevented those teams from having greater success?  The very same thing that prevented the Bengals from returning to the Super Bowl last year, injuries.

It wasn't the team design that failed to produce, it was something outside of the organization's ability to control.

If injuries kept us out of the SB, then why change our team design?  Stick with what works until it doesn't.