(08-01-2023, 10:01 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Bates and Green were also top 5 at their position, Higgins isnt.  It would be crazy to pay Higgins that much money.

The non-exclusive franchise tag (pretty much the only one ever used) is not the top-5 paid of that year. It is the top-5 paid of each each over the last 5 years averaged.

For wide receiver, that number was $19.7m in 2023, which would currently be 15th among WRs this year.

I think paying Burrow and Chase might mean Higgins is out. Higgins is worth more than probably what the Bengals will offer. I wouldn't blame him for testing the market. I want him to stay a Bengal but I am leery.

(08-01-2023, 09:26 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Man...

I went down to camp yesterday and the one thing that stood out to me most was Tee Higgins. He looks even bigger, stronger, faster, and more explosive than last year. He looked AWESOME. So fluid when he moves for being such a big dude. He is so good at high pointing the ball and his wing span makes him play like hes 6'8 rather than 6'5.

I really think he's going to have a monster year and I wouldn't be shocked at all if he puts up bigger numbers than Chase. I'm really looking forward to both him and Chase putting defenders in a blender this year...I think we see something special out of them both. They are going to be that much better.

We are still young. Looking at current and former players…. Bates, Hendrickson, Hubbard, and others like George Kittle and so many about their 3rd or 4th year really start to peak. I agree with OP our group hasn’t peaked as so many aren’t even 25.

(08-02-2023, 04:12 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The non-exclusive franchise tag (pretty much the only one ever used) is not the top-5 paid of that year. It is the top-5 paid of each each over the last 5 years averaged.

For wide receiver, that number was $19.7m in 2023, which would currently be 15th among WRs this year.

Right. It's really not that far fetched of an idea. I really think the Bengals will use the tag if they can't come to an agreement. It buys them more time to work out an extension as well if they need it. 

If the Oline is at least decent too little above average, I think we'll see a monster year from Joe Burrow and of course all the receivers as well.

(08-02-2023, 10:02 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Right. It's really not that far fetched of an idea. I really think the Bengals will use the tag if they can't come to an agreement. It buys them more time to work out an extension as well if they need it. 

Tag and trade is my guess. Just not sure I see them being able to pay Burrow, Chase, and Higgins all at once while still fielding a complete team around them, and I don't know if Higgins will manage to not be a malcontent if he plays this year for $3.5m while Burrow gets a Brinks truck, and then is expected to play under the franchise tag (as opposed to him being traded and extended) while Chase gets a Brinks truck of his own.

(08-02-2023, 04:12 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The non-exclusive franchise tag (pretty much the only one ever used) is not the top-5 paid of that year. It is the top-5 paid of each each over the last 5 years averaged.

For wide receiver, that number was $19.7m in 2023, which would currently be 15th among WRs this year.

That number actually feels fair for Higgins, if I'm being honest.

Higgins was 19th in receiving yards last year among WRs.
He was 15th among WRs the year before.

Unless there's a lengthy injury for Chase, I don't see Higgins ever getting (consistently) into the Top 10.
There just won't be enough targets to go around.

(08-02-2023, 12:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That number actually feels fair for Higgins, if I'm being honest.

Higgins was 19th in receiving yards last year among WRs.
He was 15th among WRs the year before.

Unless there's a lengthy injury for Chase, I don't see Higgins ever getting (consistently) into the Top 10.
There just won't be enough targets to go around.

I think 20 million a year for Higgins is still too much and even then the problem is that tag number is for this season not next year in 2024 when Higgins would be tagged.  Next year the number is estimated to jump close to 23 million.  The Bengals cant pay Burrow 55 million per year, Higgins 23 million per year and then sign Chase to what 30 million per year?  That would be 108 million on just three guys.  The entire salary cap per team is 224.8 million.  We cant win paying 3 players nearly half the salary cap.  

For as much hype as Burrow, Higgins and Chase get it hasnt been them carrying the team in the playoffs, its been the defense.  Burrow with all his weapons struggled to put point on the board against both Baltimore and K.C.  If not for the defense scoring a TD against Baltimore, Burrow and all this talent around him loses that game because they couldnt get it done.

(08-02-2023, 06:21 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I think 20 million a year for Higgins is still too much and even then the problem is that tag number is for this season not next year in 2024 when Higgins would be tagged.  Next year the number is estimated to jump close to 23 million.  The Bengals cant pay Burrow 55 million per year, Higgins 23 million per year and then sign Chase to what 30 million per year?  That would be 108 million on just three guys.  The entire salary cap per team is 224.8 million.  We cant win paying 3 players nearly half the salary cap.  

For as much hype as Burrow, Higgins and Chase get it hasnt been them carrying the team in the playoffs, its been the defense.  Burrow with all his weapons struggled to put point on the board against both Baltimore and K.C.  If not for the defense scoring a TD against Baltimore, Burrow and all this talent around him loses that game because they couldnt get it done.

I've been saying that for a while now, but we keep hearing they are trying to work it out.
At the end of the day, there's going to have to be savings from somewhere to cover these big contracts for the weapons.
Maybe it's OL, maybe it's somewhere on defense, but it's gonna come.

(08-02-2023, 06:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I've been saying that for a while now, but we keep hearing they are trying to work it out.
At the end of the day, there's going to have to be savings from somewhere to cover these big contracts for the weapons.
Maybe it's OL, maybe it's somewhere on defense, but it's gonna come.

Yes, and Tee's contract will offset Ja'Marr's contract if we do extend Tee. We aren't paying them at the exact same time. We can wait a 
couple years before we extend Ja'Marr and I think both of Burrow's and Tee's contracts will HAVE to make this possible along we as you 
say save somewhere else. As long as we aren't ignoring the trenches I am not against it.

But if the trenches suffer to keep around a WR who has some trouble at times staying healthy I am completely against it.

(08-02-2023, 07:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, and Tee's contract will offset Ja'Marr's contract if we do extend Tee. We aren't paying them at the exact same time. We can wait a 
couple years before we extend Ja'Marr and I think both of Burrow's and Tee's contracts will HAVE to make this possible along we as you 
say save somewhere else. As long as we aren't ignoring the trenches I am not against it.

But if the trenches suffer to keep around a WR who has some trouble at times staying healthy I am completely against it.

If you wait a couple years to extend Chase, that's the same as saying you're not extending Chase, because the relationship will be over.

The one thing about signing Tee Higgins that works in our favor is that the Salary cap is only going to go up for the foreseeable future.

(08-02-2023, 06:21 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I think 20 million a year for Higgins is still too much and even then the problem is that tag number is for this season not next year in 2024 when Higgins would be tagged.  Next year the number is estimated to jump close to 23 million.  The Bengals cant pay Burrow 55 million per year, Higgins 23 million per year and then sign Chase to what 30 million per year?  That would be 108 million on just three guys.  The entire salary cap per team is 224.8 million.  We cant win paying 3 players nearly half the salary cap.  

For as much hype as Burrow, Higgins and Chase get it hasnt been them carrying the team in the playoffs, its been the defense.  Burrow with all his weapons struggled to put point on the board against both Baltimore and K.C.  If not for the defense scoring a TD against Baltimore, Burrow and all this talent around him loses that game because they couldnt get it done.

(08-02-2023, 06:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I've been saying that for a while now, but we keep hearing they are trying to work it out.
At the end of the day, there's going to have to be savings from somewhere to cover these big contracts for the weapons.
Maybe it's OL, maybe it's somewhere on defense, but it's gonna come.

They are going to sign all 3. If you listen to Burrow he pretty much confirms it. I think they all want that and all 3 will sacrifice to make it happen. I’m on record that I don’t think Burrow’s contract is record setting. I think Chase & Tee will be too 5. If that proves to not be judicious then they all agreed to it and were invested in it. JMO

(08-03-2023, 08:59 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: They are going to sign all 3. If you listen to Burrow he pretty much confirms it. I think they all want that and all 3 will sacrifice to make it happen. I’m on record that I don’t think Burrow’s contract is record setting. I think Chase & Tee will be too 5. If that proves to not be judicious then they all agreed to it and were invested in it. JMO

Signing all 3 isn't the big concern for me. It's who will they end up allowing walk to be able to accommodate for those big contracts.
Is a WR2 more important than a CB, pass rusher, or OT? 

(08-03-2023, 09:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Signing all 3 isn't the big concern for me. It's who will they end up allowing walk to be able to accommodate for those big contracts.
Is a WR2 more important than a CB, pass rusher, or OT? 

Is KC going cheap at LT going to hurt them? I’m afraid we won’t know if it was a mistake for several years. But if Joe and Chase and Tee all agree to sacrifice financially you have to go that route. Don’t you think!

(08-03-2023, 02:55 AM)J24 Wrote: The one thing about signing Tee Higgins that works in our favor is that the Salary cap is only going to go up for the foreseeable future.

Stop it.

Salaries go up each year as well, right along with the cap.

(08-03-2023, 09:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Signing all 3 isn't the big concern for me. It's who will they end up allowing walk to be able to accommodate for those big contracts.
Is a WR2 more important than a CB, pass rusher, or OT? 

A starting CB, ED or OT?  Hell no.

(08-03-2023, 10:31 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Is KC going cheap at LT going to hurt them? I’m afraid we won’t know if it was a mistake for several years. But if Joe and Chase and Tee all agree to sacrifice financially you have to go that route. Don’t you think!

It would ultimately come down to what "sacrifice" means.
The main determining factor will be the cap percentage each of them will take up, reducing the amount of remaining cap to allocate to the rest of the team.

You have other impactful guys coming up for extensions in the next few years as well:
- Even McPherson (how long have we wanted a long-term kicker, especially one that we don't have to worry about having the leg to make a 50 yarder consistently?)
- Ted Karras
- DJ Reader
- BJ Hill (will Carter take that jump this year or next?)
- Logan Wilson
- Alex Cappa
- Jonah Williams
- La'el Collins

You're going to have at least a couple OL to worry about and probably 2 if not 3 of the Front 7 on the defense.

This is my personal opinion, but I think it's easier to draft a good WR2 and have him contribute quickly than it is finding good OL/DL and contribute quickly.

(08-03-2023, 11:00 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Stop it.

Salaries go up each year as well, right along with the cap.

Not unless it's a contract year....