(08-02-2023, 05:08 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: We're objectively worse defensively until the young replacments show that they're adequete.

You stated Bengals did not address core area of weakness which would still be the Oline and that is what we did with Brown. We also decided signing Bates was not in the big picture with other more valued pieces like Lawson etc that we will need to sign, smart move. We drafted his replacement last year in Hill, now in his 2nd year.  Losing Bell was a hit but we did try to sign him, and what did we do in FA we signed a veteran in Scott, no way is this a terrible FA but this team is better than Burrow 1st year so part of reason FA was not as big is we have better players so less need to sign FA and we need more $$ free up for upcoming election. 

(08-03-2023, 04:01 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I don't think they are better at stsrting Safety, but I think the Bengals depth is better there than last year.

I also see Safety as probably the least important position on an NFL defense. So, if the Bengals are going to start the season worse off at a position, starting S would be the poison pill I would choose.

S is furthest from the line of scrimmage and more of an assisting/helping position. Safeties aren't typically left on an island. They come up and assist the guys on the island.

But the Bengals still have good players there after losing what they lost, which is exciting.

I agree on KC not being as good. As Burrow said... They get to decide that on the field.

I don’t know how we will be at safety. I’m not ready to forfeit that by the playoffs aren’t as good. Doubtful but possible. But we are faster at corner and safety. That should account for something. But depth is better all over. In Paul Dehner’s Athletic article today he said Taylor was excited with the depth in the OL. We’ve got 3 corners, 3 safeties, more depth on the edge, more depth at receiver, and early returns are positive on Carter in the DL.

(08-02-2023, 04:27 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Also, what the hell happened to my post from earlier today?

You have no deleted posts in this thread from today.

(08-03-2023, 05:51 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I don’t know how we will be at safety. I’m not ready to forfeit that by the playoffs aren’t as good. Doubtful but possible. But we are faster at corner and safety. That should account for something. But depth is better all over. In Paul Dehner’s Athletic article today he said Taylor was excited with the depth in the OL. We’ve got 3 corners, 3 safeties, more depth on the edge, more depth at receiver, and early returns are positive on Carter in the DL.

This is huge, if Zach Carter can collapse the interior on passing downs our Defense should be in much better shape than last year.

(08-02-2023, 09:44 PM)PDub80 Wrote: There is no way the Bengals are worse on D than last year. NO WAY.

- Deeper D line

- MUCH deeper 2ndary (CB room is LOADED & Juan Drago Turner is looking like a STUD)

- Best CB returns healthy

- CTB more experienced

- Deeper at Safety

Where is this defense weak? Safety? They have a first round pick & a strong, sought after vet back there starting & a 2nd rounder backing them up along with Anderson who's no slouch.

Question marks at safety? Sure. Weaker than last year at safety? Most likely.

Weak overall? No. Most years, we'd be looking at this starting duo with optimism.

(08-03-2023, 06:03 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Question marks at safety? Sure. Weaker than last year at safety? Most likely.

Weak overall? No. Most years, we'd be looking at this starting duo with optimism.

I think ppl say we are worse on D not because of the players we lost but the players we lost AND their roles in Lou’s defense.


On paper losing 2 safeties but getting back good players doesn’t look bad but we’ve gotta factor in that Lou’s defense calls for its safeties to do a hell of a lot. So losing 2 safeties in Lou’s system is scary.

So officially i’m in the “The defense got worse” camp but i could EASILY see Dax and Scott and Battle being great.



Ima be the 1st to say it because i don’t think Iv seen anyone say it…..i think we just replicated the Seahawks and drafted 2 amazing defensive backs in the same draft. I really like Turner and Battle and i truly believe if either got to start 17 games, they’d be pro bowlers.

(08-03-2023, 06:03 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Question marks at safety? Sure. Weaker than last year at safety? Most likely.

Weak overall? No. Most years, we'd be looking at this starting duo with optimism.

I certainly look at the Safeties with cautious optimism going into this year. They could be great on down the road, but they should make 
some mistakes with a player in Daxton Hill who played all over the place at Michigan and then again with us last year. Like Ochocincos 
said, him being able to concentrate on one position for once might bring out the best in him.

(08-03-2023, 05:51 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I don’t know how we will be at safety. I’m not ready to forfeit that by the playoffs aren’t as good. Doubtful but possible. But we are faster at corner and safety. That should account for something. But depth is better all over. In Paul Dehner’s Athletic article today he said Taylor was excited with the depth in the OL. We’ve got 3 corners, 3 safeties, more depth on the edge, more depth at receiver, and early returns are positive on Carter in the DL.

My take (which may or not be accurate) has always been I'll always give the benefit of the doubt to an early-round draft pick for their first 2-3 years.
Players don't typically come into their own until around 24-25 years old, and I won't want to crucify them if they aren't perfect right away.

Along with that, I also don't want to go invest another high-round draft pick or expensive veteran on a multi-year contract just because they didn't do great as a rookie. Because if they come along, you've essentially just wasted either a draft pick or $$.

It's part of why I don't want to give up on Carman just yet. But I do expect that by the end of this season, he'll be what he'll be for his career. Most players don't blossom 4+ years into their career.

(08-03-2023, 05:51 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I don’t know how we will be at safety. I’m not ready to forfeit that by the playoffs aren’t as good. Doubtful but possible. But we are faster at corner and safety. That should account for something. But depth is better all over. In Paul Dehner’s Athletic article today he said Taylor was excited with the depth in the OL. We’ve got 3 corners, 3 safeties, more depth on the edge, more depth at receiver, and early returns are positive on Carter in the DL.

It would not be hard at all to make a case that the Bengals have the best roster this year top to bottom when fully healthy.

Some hot takes regarding the defense and how deep they are...

- I think the Bengals 2nd string CBs (Jones, Davis, & Turner) would start for the bottom 3rd of the league (10 teams) pretty easily. - Fun fact: Ourlads depth chart the 2 rookie CBs are actually listed as the backups behind Chido & CTB. I listed IVy as one of my sleeper draft picks to have an impact. He has BIG TIME potential and is showing it in camp.

- I think the Bengals starting Safeties (Hill & Scott) AS IS would start for at least 50% of the league (or more).

- The Bengals backup D-Linemen (Murphy, Ossai, Sample, Carter, Tupou) would start for the back 3rd of the legue pretty easily.

Before anyone points to unproven rookies being looked at as starters - You have to remember that a lot of teams don't have rosters built like the Bengals and, as such: 1st, 2nd, 3rd round rounders beat out the incumbant starter quite often.

Since the change in their approach to free agency these are some of the Bengals’ personnel moves:

Signed outside free agents Reader, Bell, Hendrickson, Hilton, Ogunjobi.

Traded Price for Hill and draft pick used to trade up for Tycen Anderson. Traded Finley for draft pick used to draft Chris Evans.

Upgraded offensive line. Cordy Glenn didn’t work out. Collins hasn’t met expectations. Orlando Brown, Jr gets a TBD grade.

Overall, free agency has been excellent to great recently. If they think Scott (or Battle) and Hill can replace the safeties they lost, I’m going to wait longer than the first week of training camp to evaluate the results.

(08-04-2023, 01:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: My take (which may or not be accurate) has always been I'll always give the benefit of the doubt to an early-round draft pick for their first 2-3 years.
Players don't typically come into their own until around 24-25 years old, and I won't want to crucify them if they aren't perfect right away.

Along with that, I also don't want to go invest another high-round draft pick or expensive veteran on a multi-year contract just because they didn't do great as a rookie. Because if they come along, you've essentially just wasted either a draft pick or $$.

It's part of why I don't want to give up on Carman just yet. But I do expect that by the end of this season, he'll be what he'll be for his career. Most players don't blossom 4+ years into their career.

Exactly the way I look at it. You have to be realistic, not every rookie is going to be a JaMarr Chase. It usually takes them a couple years
years to really belong, even with the most talented young players. We will see after this season if Carman is the answer or not, he should
get a lot of snaps this year even if he starts the year as a depth piece. Jonah has trouble staying healthy, always has.

For example, I think Ossai this year also could become a great player for us.

(08-02-2023, 05:08 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: We're objectively worse defensively until the young replacments show that they're adequete.

Our veteran safeties were responsible for both of KC's TDs in the AFCCG, on one play they were both confused as to how to lineup.  Neither were ballhawks or sideline to sideline players.  It is the lowest valued position on defense.  We will be fine.

(08-04-2023, 01:55 PM)PDub80 Wrote: It would not be hard at all to make a case that the Bengals have the best roster this year top to bottom when fully healthy.

Some hot takes regarding the defense and how deep they are...

- I think the Bengals 2nd string CBs (Jones, Davis, & Turner) would start for the bottom 3rd of the league (10 teams) pretty easily. - Fun fact: Ourlads depth chart the 2 rookie CBs are actually listed as the backups behind Chido & CTB. I listed IVy as one of my sleeper draft picks to have an impact. He has BIG TIME potential and is showing it in camp.

- I think the Bengals starting Safeties (Hill & Scott) AS IS would start for at least 50% of the league (or more).

- The Bengals backup D-Linemen (Murphy, Ossai, Sample, Carter, Tupou) would start for the back 3rd of the legue pretty easily.

Before anyone points to unproven rookies being looked at as starters - You have to remember that a lot of teams don't have rosters built like the Bengals and, as such: 1st, 2nd, 3rd round rounders beat out the incumbant starter quite often.

The roster was such dog _____ when Zac took over. Just not their performance but the culture and character. And certainly not the whole roster. I remember discussing it with a still an assistant coach in the AFC who said it was just awful. The whole organization has done so well. It’s going to benefit us in that some teams may be interested in our reserves via trade because of injuries

Two linebackers but it'll cost DJ Reader and Tee.

The latter I knew wasn't happening, but I hope they got a plan for DJ.

(08-04-2023, 09:35 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Two linebackers but it'll cost DJ Reader and Tee.

The latter I knew wasn't happening, but I hope they got a plan for DJ.

Yeah, those deals kill everything...... and uhm...you dont KNOW anything.

(08-04-2023, 12:31 AM)Housh Wrote: I think ppl say we are worse on D not because of the players we lost but the players we lost AND their roles in Lou’s defense.


On paper losing 2 safeties but getting back good players doesn’t look bad but we’ve gotta factor in that "Lou’s defense calls for its safeties to do a hell of a lot."  So losing 2 safeties in Lou’s system is scary.

Where does this come from?  What do they do more than other safeties?   Bell and Bates were NOT interchangeable.  I can point to many other safeties guarding TE's way more than those two, I can defitniely point to several safeties that blitz a ton more than them.

Our safeties are key to our bend-dont-break philosophy and they are instructed to NOT take chances.  Having our guys stay back more than most isnt really doing a whole lot.

(08-04-2023, 10:14 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Where does this come from?  What do they do more than other safeties?   Bell and Bates were NOT interchangeable.  I can point to many other safeties guarding TE's way more than those two, I can defitniely point to several safeties that blitz a ton more than them.

Our safeties are key to our bend-dont-break philosophy and they are instructed to NOT take chances.  Having our guys stay back more than most isnt really doing a whole lot.

Bates alone i think proves my point. We asked him to do everything but run support pretty much. I’d be surprised if many other safeties covered the ground Bates did.

(08-04-2023, 09:35 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Two linebackers but it'll cost DJ Reader and Tee.

The latter I knew wasn't happening, but I hope they got a plan for DJ.

Reader


I truly believe Tee has already been factored in.

I did the math a while back and we can pretty much sign all of Chase, Wilson, Burrow and Tee. The issue is that’s likely good bye to Hubbard, Awuzie, and Reader. Keep in mind the cap is only rising so we could look in 3 years and the cap has risen so much it basically makes up for one of these guys.

(08-05-2023, 02:07 AM)Housh Wrote: Bates alone i think proves my point. We asked him to do everything but run support pretty much. I’d be surprised if many other safeties covered the ground Bates did.

Really?  Bates was not fast and not a ball hawk by any measure.  Dax should be able to cover much more graound.  But will he make the best decisions? 

and I guess people need something to ***** about, so they’ve magically picked Dax Hill to be the whipping boy for whatever reason

Dax Hill will be fine. The other safety spot is a much bigger question mark. Just don’t have Dax Hill play special teams anymore