Kaepernick Trade For Dalton?
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Kaepernick Trade For Dalton?
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06-09-2015, 12:52 AM
(06-09-2015, 12:47 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: It was Gore, and one of the best defenses in the league, and great game planning from the coach that made them a good team. Now all 3 are gone, and they will have 0 to 3 wins next season. I feel like you're missing my point. ![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png) 
06-09-2015, 12:54 AM
(06-09-2015, 12:52 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I feel like you're missing my point. How do you know I'm not agreeing with you that the 49ers will be crap
06-09-2015, 01:03 AM
(06-09-2015, 12:51 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You can (and have) come up with every excuse possible, but the bottom line is Andy Dalton throws far to many INTs. There is really only one person to blame, unless you want to suggest (I wouldn't be surprised if you did) that Andy is the only QB in the NFL that is hampered by these excuses you are trying to make. In 2013 it was 3 INTs that were dropped, and 2014 it was 4 INTs that were dropped. Not bad at all considering.... 2014 Luck 8 dropped INTs Cutler 7 dropped INTs E. Manning 7 dropped INTs Ryan 6 dropped INTs Tannehill 6 dropped INTs Wilson 6 dropped INTs 2013 Flacco 9 dropped INTs Stafford 8 dropped INTs Tannehill 11 dropped INTs There would be a lot more in both years if I added in all of the QBs in the league. I just didn't want to water it down with no names, and people who aren't considered "good" QBs, and I didn't add in any "good" QB that had 5 or less dropped INTs to the list. 
06-09-2015, 01:06 AM
If were going to trade for another QB then he better be close to a top 5 QB anything else would be a no. Kaepernick might be slightly better or slightly worse than Dalton but he certainly isn't anything close to top 5.
06-09-2015, 01:13 AM
(06-09-2015, 01:03 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: In 2013 it was 3 INTs that were dropped, and 2014 it was 4 INTs that were dropped. Not bad at all considering....These stats; as well as the deflected INTs (wherever they come from) are absolutely hilarious coming from someone that once called passer rating a “made up” stat in an attempt to defend Andy. The vast majority of folks that watch football can clearly see Andy Dalton throw too many INTs and most folks are observant enough to see who is at fault. ![[Image: bfine-guns2.png]](https://i.ibb.co/YBkDQJV/bfine-guns2.png)
06-09-2015, 01:21 AM
(06-09-2015, 01:13 AM)bfine32 Wrote: These stats; as well as the deflected INTs (wherever they come from) are absolutely hilarious coming from someone that once called passer rating a “made up” stat in an attempt to defend Andy. Did I say that Dalton doesn't need to reduce his INTs? If he did he would easily be a top 10 QB. Also passer rating is a made up stat that is mostly affected by YPA. They had to come up with a big equation comprising of stats that should be viewed separately to be able to get passer rating. Passer rating doesn't even equate to how good the QB is. It's just how efficient his passes are.
06-09-2015, 01:26 AM
(06-08-2015, 11:20 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: you do realize that almost half of the INTs Dalton had in 2013 was from a tipped ball from the receiver right? I went to one of these alt sites, It states Andy had 2 tipped INTs in 2013 http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/adjusted-interceptions-2013 2 is not almost half of 20.  
06-09-2015, 01:39 AM
(06-09-2015, 01:21 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Did I say that Dalton doesn't need to reduce his INTs? If he did he would easily be a top 10 QB. I've already explained to you that this is not true. The 4 variables that are used are divided and multiplied by fractions to give a number between 0-2.375 Those numbers are added up and then divided by 6 before being multiplied. Any large variance in any of the 4 will effect the number. The better you do, the better the number. The worse you do, the worse the number. There is nothing that makes 1 variable more or less valuable than the other, no matter how many times you try to say it. The only thing wrong with the standard system is that the multipliers are outdated and don't reflect the actual average QB of today. The people that created the QB rating system are way smarter than you and understand why it's fair for all QBs when determining their grade when passing the football. There is nothing subjective or "made up" about it. "The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
06-09-2015, 02:03 AM
(06-09-2015, 01:13 AM)bfine32 Wrote: These stats; as well as the deflected INTs (wherever they come from) are absolutely hilarious coming from someone that once called passer rating a “made up” stat in an attempt to defend Andy. Don't turn into that guy. You are better than that.
06-09-2015, 02:33 AM
(06-09-2015, 01:26 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I went to one of these alt sites, It states Andy had 2 tipped INTs in 2013 Let me go down the list of his INTs of 2013 Bears vs Bengals INT #1 - Dalton threw to Green, and the corner forced himself in front of Green and got the pick. A lot of people would blame on that on the receiver, but if you want to say that's on Dalton good for you. INT #2 - Dalton threw to Green, and it was a tipped ball. Bengals vs Packers INT #3 - I can't remember the specifics, but I'm pretty sure this one was Dalton's fault. Again I don't remember. Browns vs Bengals INT #4 - Dalton throws to Eifert. The ball is tipped. Bengals vs Patriots INT #5 - Dalton makes a bad decision, and it becomes an INT. Bengals vs Bills INT #6 - Dalton throws it. Bills safety makes a good play and makes the INT. Bengals vs Jets INT #7 - Dalton throws the ball over the middle, and the pass tipped multiple times, and eventually picked by Wilkerson Bengals vs Dolphins INT #8 - Daltons throws, and Grimes rips the ball out of Jones hands to make an amazing play for the ball and makes the INT. INT #9 - Dalton throws it to Sanu, and a defender hits Sanu as he catches the ball and pops it out (personally I think it was a helmet to helmet tackle). I don't even think this should have been considered a pick INT #10 - Can't remember the 3rd one in the game. I'll just credit it to Dalton. Bengals vs Ravens INT # 11 - Dalton overthrows Eifert ends in an INT INT # 12 - Dalton overthrows Green ends in an INT INT # 13 - Can't remember the other INT here so just credit it to Dalton Bengals vs Browns INT # 14 - Dalton makes a bad throw and Haden makes the pick INT # 15 - Haden makes a great play and get's the pick. Bengals vs Chargers INT # 16 - Dalton overthrows Green, INT. Bengals vs Ravens INT # 17 - Dalton throws to Jones, Jones gets the ball stripped from him, INT. INT # 18 - Dalton overthrows Green, INT. INT # 19 - Dalton throws to Green, Green gets the ball stripped from him, INT. INT # 20 - Can't remember what happened with the 4th INT. I'm pretty sure this one was on Dalton. So, from my count that's 8 INT's that wasn't Dalton's fault in 2013.
06-09-2015, 02:42 AM
(06-09-2015, 01:39 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I've already explained to you that this is not true. Which QB do you think should have a better passer rating? QB 1 = 22/35 (62.8%) 330 yards 2 TDs 0 INTs QB 2 = 11/18 (61.1%) 250 yards 1 TD 0 INTS Well if you said QB1 you would be wrong. QB1 had 112.7 and QB2 had 123.6 that's over 10 rating for a lot worse performance. as for some stats the whole season with different "QBs"... QB1 =270/430 (62.7%) 3300 yards 22 TDs 11 INTs QB2 = 380/590 (64.4%) 4200 yards 30 TDs 14 INTs If you said QB2 you would be wrong. QB1 has 92.7, and QB2 has 91.7. Even though QB2 has 900 more yards 8 more TDs and only 3 more INTs he is rated lower than QB1. I would pick QB2 over QB1 any day of the week. So the one with much more yards and TDs and a higher completion % gets a lower rating? How is that judging who's a better QB? The biggest part of passer rating is YPA. All that passer rating shows is who is more of an efficient QB, and not who's the better QB. I mean if you like more efficient QBs that's fine, but that's about the same as liking a smart car over a lamborghini. Also they take all of the stats that have different common denominators, and try to guesstimate how much value each stat should have in that formula.
06-09-2015, 06:51 AM
(06-08-2015, 11:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course it matters if a receiver can create space. That has absolutely nothing to do with throwing the ball to the other team. But suddenly the knock on the WRs last year has changed from dropping balls to not getting separation. He had a full compliment of talented receivers in 2013 and threw 20 INTs. Do you know what the 1 common factor in the 2 years was? There are most certainly WR interceptions and QB interceptions. Not sure the problem with that as it is usually very obvious. 
06-09-2015, 10:40 AM
(06-08-2015, 03:14 PM)GodFather Wrote: So I was reading how the 49ers could possibly trade Kaepernick with the recent loss of players and new coaching for restructuring. My question is this would you trade Dalton AND a 3rd round draft in 2016 for Kaepernick? Kaepernick proved he can win in the postseason with a dominate run game and top defense... Something we havent had show up in the postseason. Why would we give a 3rd rounder? Keap isnt an upgrade. with our WRs id perfer a passing QB over a running one 
06-09-2015, 10:52 AM
(06-09-2015, 10:40 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Kaepernick proved he can win in the postseason with a dominate run game and top defense... Something we havent had show up in the postseason. I was raising the question based on the article about the 49ers and Kaep, obviously if it was a hypothetical question about trading Dalton and third rounder for any other QB in the NFL Kaepernick wouldn't even be a consideration. With the Hill/Gio combo I do thing we will have a top running game based on the O-Line performance. I agree with you about the defense. It needs to really step it up in a big way this year because last year they were one of the most disappointing things that I didn't expect. As far as a 3rd rounder? Hell this organization has given up 2nd rounders as projects (Hunt, Simpson) a 3rd rounder isn't that crazy especially considering the past 3rd rounders we chose that aren't exactly tearing it up for us. 2014 Will Clarke 2013 Shawn Williams 2012 Sanu ( A good third round pick!) 2011 Dontay Moch 
06-09-2015, 11:36 AM
Really Kaep is only a star because of one team. Green Bay. Outside of playing them, he's no more of a threat then Dalton has been (sure he has potential, but has never lived up to it). In fact, his only dominant games came against one club, and against that club in the playoffs which is why he has the strong rep on this board, and not so much outside of this board. That's likely why he is on the verge of being cut and/or traded, dumped.
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous
06-09-2015, 11:46 AM
(06-09-2015, 02:33 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Let me go down the list of his INTs of 2013 Gruden should have never been throwing the ball the way he was when we were up by 17 against the Ravens in that last game. Dalton's 2013 would look so different, but folks look at his INT's and don't realize how close he was to a 33-16 td/int ratio. Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous 
06-09-2015, 12:13 PM
(06-09-2015, 01:27 AM)Lawless_1 Wrote: I'd do that kind of trade for RG3. We have a much better version of RG3, currently on the roster (with higher potential upside anyway *IMO*). I don't see RG3 or Pryor actually being starting material, but I'm much happier with the cheaper version to gamble with.
06-09-2015, 12:49 PM
(06-09-2015, 12:13 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: We have a much better version of RG3, currently on the roster (with higher potential upside anyway *IMO*). Much better? What are you, Pryor's cousin or something? RGIII is disappointing and injury-prone but the guy accomplished more in his rookie season that Pryor ever will in the NFL...thems the breaks.
06-09-2015, 01:36 PM
(06-09-2015, 12:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Much better? What are you, Pryor's cousin or something? RGIII is disappointing and injury-prone but the guy accomplished more in his rookie season that Pryor ever will in the NFL...thems the breaks. Well... I did say IMO. I'm not a homer and I did also say I didn't consider either starter material. The higher upside that I see in Pryor is that his frame could add the extra weight to be more durable. As far as comparing stats, I don't find that relevant as Pryor never got the shot that RG3 did. Regardless, I defer to the fact of paying Pryor a minimal salary and being content with that investment over losing my starting QB to gamble on RG3. Now then....... Go AJ McCarron !! 
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