(09-08-2023, 07:51 PM)wanga Wrote: I’d love to keep Tee but if you run with a Chase and one of your draftees, like a Iosias, kicks on to fill that 2 role then I’m happy with that. Leave money elsewhere for the trenches imo.

You'd be happy with a 6th round pick who hasn't even caught a ball in an NFL game as your #2 weapon? 

(09-08-2023, 05:21 PM)Joelist Wrote: This raises the odds of a sign and trade setup after this season utilizing the franchise tag. 

Yeah that's what I see happening though others don't agree 

(09-08-2023, 08:32 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Spotrac has the Bengals at an estimated 93m in cap space going into 2024. Once you factor in Joe's 5th year option of 29m and and the example of 35 for Tee, with Chase ready being accounted for..
that still leaves 29m and that doesn't include any possibe rollover.

Yes, with only 38 guys on their roster and no NT (Reader FA), no CB1 (Awuzie FA), no WR3 (Boyd FA), no RT (Jonah FA), no TEs (all 3 are FAs), and none of your rookies signed.

Rookies..
Myles Murphy: $2.3m
DJ Turner: $1.1m
Jordan Battle: $1m
$4.4m

Lets just go ahead and say the other 4 are $800k-ish league minimum types and then you need 6 more guys to get up to the 51 number.

(09-08-2023, 08:33 PM)TheFan Wrote: You'd be happy with a 6th round pick who hasn't even caught a ball in an NFL game as your #2 weapon? 

You’d be happy or not happy with Iosivas based on his performance this year. But they don’t need to make any decisions today.

(09-08-2023, 08:54 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You’d be happy or not happy with Iosivas based on his performance this year. But they don’t need to make any decisions today.

Nobody should expect yoshi to turn into a legit 2nd receiver. Solid 3rd option at best, which is a home run for a 6th round pick

Could always trade up for MH Jr. Can’t imagine what that would cost.

(09-08-2023, 05:30 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's very doable IMO, except in the case that Tee's looking for something outlandish.

Doable for what cost, many oline contracts are up soon too.

(03-15-2023, 05:15 PM)Synric Wrote: 15 running backs were taken day 3 of the 2022 NFL draft only 3 contributed. The percentage chance of a day 3 running back being successful is not as good as people keep trying to point out with Isiah Pacheco.

Just look at the Chiefs, there 1st round running back plays sparingly and in his 3rd year I believe. KC had a great draft in 2022 as their secondary was a major need, but they fixed it with FA (Reid) and the draft.

(03-15-2023, 07:03 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: No, this is Tee's final year and Chase has 2 seasons left on his contract with a possible 3rd if the Bengals exercise the 5th year option that is available for 1st round draft picks.  If Tee is not extended this year he is a free agent after the season and we could lose him with nothing to show for it.   That is why people are saying trade him if we cant get an extension so at least you can draft his replacement.  You cant lose Tee and get nothing for him..

As for people saying "use the tag on Tee next year" its not going to happen.  The tag is the average of the top 5 paid WRs.  Do you see the Bengals or any team paying Tee the same kind of money as Davante Adams, Tyreek Hill, DeAndre Hopkins, Cooper Kupp or A.J. Brown?   You're going to pay Tee top 5 money?   I think he is a very good WR but he is not top 5 and I dont see anybody paying him like a top 5.  

Isn't their a less expensive tag option, if a team signs a guy they give up their first round pick?

I don’t think they’ll sign Tee.He’s going to demand alot of money.Take a WR in first round of draft next year,a good one,even if you have to trade up to get him.Remember,he’ll have Joe Burrow throwing him the ball.Problem solved.

I have not read all comments yet so if this was covered, I apologize. The Bengals have 94 million in cap space right now excluding the Burrow contract that has yet to be posted.

They have 5 starters that are free agents:
Reader - unlikely to get another huge deal as he will be on the other side of 30
Boyd - He is our 3rd WR and makes over 10 million in 2023. He is also over 30 so if he wants to be paid big bucks again, he will need to sign elsewere
Jonah Williams - He is year one at RT, if he kills it Bengals may try and keep him and it won't be cheap
Awuzie - will demand a huge contract if he plays great in 2023
Tee - Higgins - I think he is the priority of the 5 starters due to his age

Bengals have Collins under contract in 2024, but could save 7 million next year and spend on Jonah or Tee
Mixon - Bengals could save almost 6 million by cutting or trading Joe in 2024

Bengals have all of their 2023 draft picks on the 53, will they progress?
Will D.J. Turner prove to be the replacement for Awuzie?
Can Collins take over at RT once healthy in 2024 for Jonah?
Can Jones or Iosivas replace Boyd?
Can Carter or another DT replace Reader?

The Bengals draft for not only the current year, but for the future. The coaches hopefully can develop our younger players. If these guys and next years rookie class can progress quickly, some of our holes disappear and we can focus a ton of cap money we have left on the right player for our future.

I can see Tee being signed or tagged in 2024. He could also be tagged and then traded if they can't work out a deal.

(09-08-2023, 07:02 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Now as an exercise take a look at today's roster according to salary cap...

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

...as of right now at least they currently combine for a ~$24m cap hit in 2023.

You might say "but the salary cap is going to raise by $20m next year!" but then you have to remember that is already getting eaten up by guys who will have larger cap hits next year. Orlando Brown's cap hit is going to raise by $6m, Trey Hendrickson's will rise by $5m, Nick Scott will rise by $2m, and Wilson/Karras/Pratt will rise by about a combined $7m. The $20m rise is already gone and you haven't added anyone and there's more guys making more to go.

So now you need to look at the current roster and figure out where that extra $50m is going to come from. Jonah, Mixon, and BJ Hill seem like the easier answers but that only saves you about $23.5m or so once you replace them with roughly league minimum players and you still need to shed $26.5m more while being weaker at a couple positions.

It's doable, sure, but it's not very doable. The roster will take a huge hit in talent across the board in order to make it happen. It won't be anywhere near as complete of a roster if you sink that much into your QB and two WRs.

The math was never favorable for keeping Tee if you wanted to keep the rest of your roster any good.

Pretty good rational. We need to pretty much nail the draft for the next 6 years. Won't always be easy when you are picking late in the rounds either.

If Tee is gone no need to let Boyd walk. So we’ve got options either way

(09-08-2023, 09:47 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Isn't their a less expensive tag option, if a team signs a guy they give up their first round pick?

Yes.  There are two types of franchise tags the exclusive and non exclusive.  The exclusive franchise tag would prevent Tee from negotiating with any other team.  The non exclusive franchise tag would allow Tee to still negotiate with other teams and if another team agrees to a contract with him, the Bengals would have the right to match that offer.  If the Bengals refused to match that offer, they would receive two first round draft picks.

There is also the transition tag the Bengals could use.  Tee's salary would not be the average of the top 5 WR salaries/salary cap like it would with the franchise tag, it would be the average of the top 10 salaries at the WR position so it would be cheaper.  Tee could still negotiate with other teams for a better contract.  The Bengals would have the ability to match any contract offer just like they would with the non exclusive franchise tag.  The big difference however is if the Bengals refused to match a contract offer, they would get nothing in return and Tee could go to the other team with no compensation.

(09-08-2023, 09:25 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Nobody should expect yoshi to turn into a legit 2nd receiver. Solid 3rd option at best, which is a home run for a 6th round pick

They are pretty pleased I hear. But the kicker is he’s got ridiculous upside. He’s not had great coaching and benefitted from a ton of reps. His athleticism is off the charts. So he could develop into a star. Or may never. But he’s surprised and he’s not a legit 6th rounder. Not saying he’s gonna ever be good enough to replace Higgins but the athleticism is there.

The main reason I'm salty about this is that we just saw it play out with Bates. The media will feed us this story non-stop for the next two years. They're holding the playbook already. It's lather rinse repeat. Soon we'll/they'll start vilifying Tee for not wanting to take a "hometown discount" (you know that thing that doesn't actually exist in the real world? Yeah that thing) to stay with a winner. Then we'll re-frame him like he's not worth the money anyway, "Ja'Marr's the true WR1, Tee's just a Robin," etc. Then we'll have plenty of time to consider the best way to get rid of him: whether to let him go and take the draft comp, when/if to tag him once/twice, or whether to orchestrate a trade....

All while he's still with the team.

It's such a distraction and I wish it weren't so. The next two years will be incredible for this franchise and he'll be a BIG part of it. We're about to watch history play out. If Tee and Mulugheta are able to compartmentalize the business from the game, we should follow their lead. Problem is the media has no interest in letting us do so. It's in their best interest to keep it alive. That's why you have a guy like Malik Wrighttttt telling everyone to "Relax!" during the Bates negotiations that were going nowhere, and were never going to go anywhere: it's not that he had a scoop, it's that he didn't want to lose his audience. Same thing now with Zim WhoDey and Tee: "It's done, it's done, it's done... just keep watching this space!" To have to listen to these guys pay their bills for the next two/three years will be excruciating.

Anyway, I just wish there were a way to mute that "story" and its mindless "updates" in advance, because it'll be buzzing around like an invisible fly from now until the day Tee lands somewhere else. It's so unnecessary lol

/rant

(09-08-2023, 09:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Just look at the Chiefs, there 1st round running back plays sparingly and in his 3rd year I believe. KC had a great draft in 2022 as their secondary was a major need, but they fixed it with FA (Reid) and the draft.

KC knows how to draft olinemen.  Im sure they were not very bummed with the the consolation prize of Creed Humphrey after we took Carman.....

They also took Smith in the 6th round.  A 1st rounder if not for a med issue that had been resolved.

We have to do much better in the draft.  I wasnt, and still am not, as thrilled as most with this most recent draft.

(09-08-2023, 10:43 PM)Housh Wrote: If Tee is gone no need to let Boyd walk. So we’ve got options either way

Boyd isnt interested in a discount either, but will be much less than Tee.

(09-09-2023, 12:19 AM)casear2727 Wrote: KC knows how to draft olinemen. Im sure they were not very bummed with the the consolation prize of Creed Humphrey after we took Carman.....

They also took Smith in the 6th round.  A 1st rounder if not for a med issue that had been resolved.

We have to do much better in the draft.  I wasnt, and still am not, as thrilled as most with this most recent draft.

Do they though? 3/5 of their starting OL were brought in as UFA’s. They’ve hit on a couple that you mentioned (which is better than us) but I wouldn’t exactly put them up there with a team like the Eagles as far as building a great OL through the draft.

(09-09-2023, 12:21 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Boyd isnt interested in a discount either, but will be much less than Tee.

Why would Higgins or Boyd take any kind of discount when Burrow went after everything he could get?  Higgins isnt going to sign a contract for 18-20 million so Burrow can have his 55 million, highest payed player in the NFL contract.  Burrow set the tone.  Everyone of these guys will seek the max they can get just like Burrow.  They arent staying together.  Something has to give.  The Bengals cant fit them all under the cap. It might have worked if all of them were willing to give up a little but that opportunity is gone with the Burrow max contract.