Make your case for or against.

Perhaps not as good of a blocker as Sample and not as seasoned as Irv Smith, but based on what I’ve seen and our need to throw up the middle given the infinite cover 2 set that we will see from here on out, I believe he should get a permanent spot on the 53. I do realize we need to cut someone, but I have not seen something out of Irv Smith to suggest he is an upgrade.

I am also giving him a pass for falling on his face after getting tripped by the turf monster.


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Hudson already beats out Irv at this point because Irv is once again injured and unavailable according to the latest injury report. Irv missed last week and looks like maybe this week as well with a hamstring injury. Even though he missed 3 games last year, I wish the team had been able to work a deal and keep Hurst.

James Rapien from 'Locked On Bengals' podcast has been high on him since beginning of training camp. I don't know much about him personally seems hes bounced around and is now in his 5th year. Only 15 receptions in his career before this year.

(09-27-2023, 08:52 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Hudson already beats out Irv at this point because Irv is once again injured and unavailable according to the latest injury report.  Irv missed last week and looks like maybe this week as well with a hamstring injury.  Even though he missed 3 games last year, I wish the team had been able to work a deal and keep Hurst.

Hurst isn't worth his contract but it makes 0 sense why we didn't go for someone like Gesicke vs someone like Irv Smith. 

(09-27-2023, 09:45 PM)BurrowTheGoat Wrote: James Rapien from 'Locked On Bengals' podcast has been high on him since beginning of training camp.  I don't know much about him personally seems hes bounced around and is now in his 5th year.  Only 15 receptions in his career before this year.

I like Rapien on his Podcast and when it comes to random tidbits of news but when it comes to player evaluations he doesn't have an impressive track record. 

That said, I'd like to give Hudson a bit of run because we need some juice out of somewhere that's not Chase or Higgins and it's not going to come from anywhere else. 

(09-27-2023, 09:45 PM)BurrowTheGoat Wrote: James Rapien from 'Locked On Bengals' podcast has been high on him since beginning of training camp. I don't know much about him personally seems hes bounced around and is now in his 5th year. Only 15 receptions in his career before this year.

I need to pay more attention. Seriously thought he was an undrafted free agent.

I'm going to throw out some stats here:

- Hudson played one game, he has 2 receptions and 30 receiving yards;
- Irv Smith Jr. played two games, he has 5 receptions and 27 receiving yards;

The sample size is too small, and Zac already said that tight ends aren't that valuable on his offense. Hudson did next to nothing since he was signed as an undrafted free agent by Tampa Bay in 2018. In 2019 he finished the season with 2 receptions and 26 yards; in 2020 he got 41 yards and ended up catching only 3 passes. He was waived by the Niners and the Giants in 2021 and 2022, respectively. He has always been a practice squad guy, the best perfomance of his carreer was that preseason game against the Commanders where he caught 4 passes for 42 yards. So, in other words, there's no reason to be excited about him. Now with Smith Jr injuried, that's the chance of his life. We know that these PS guys are always waiting for a chance to earn a spot, if he has some talent it's time to show up and impress the staff.

(09-27-2023, 09:49 PM)TheFan Wrote: Hurst isn't worth his contract but it makes 0 sense why we didn't go for someone like Gesicke vs someone like Irv Smith. 

I agree the Panthers over paid him.  But like I said I would have liked the Bengals to have worked out a deal to keep him.  Certainly not at the same price the Panthers paid him. Maybe I should have clarified that in my earlier post.  It seems despite his claims last year that he "found a home," Hurst went for the money. I can't really blame him for that.

(09-27-2023, 08:43 PM)maclanta Wrote: Make your case for or against.

Perhaps not as good of a blocker as Sample and not as seasoned as Irv Smith, but based on what I’ve seen and our need to throw up the middle given the infinite cover 2 set that we will see from here on out, I believe he should get a permanent spot on the 53. I do realize we need to cut someone, but I have not seen something out of Irv Smith to suggest he is an upgrade.

What exactly is your case, that Hudson should have a spot on the 53 or that he should become the new TE1? For I'd say yes to the former and no to the latter. 

My case against degrading Irv Smith is that there were only two games with an apparently severely hampered QB to evaluate him by. I doubt Tanner Hudson would have been able to do much more in these games - even more so since we saw one game of Mr. Hudson with a somewhat improved passing game and it's not like he set the world on fire there. Putting him from the practice squad right on top of the depth chart because of 30 receiving yards against the Rams seems a bit rushed. 
Granted, I actually still believe Irv Smith can be good and would like to see a few more games before giving up on him.

Wasn’t he the one that fell down on a 3rd and 3 target and killed a drive for us Monday?

(09-27-2023, 10:40 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Wasn’t he the one that fell down on a 3rd and 3 target and killed a drive for us Monday?

Yep but he also had the second longest reception at 25 yards.  Not saying he is the next great TE for the Bengals or should replace Irv if Irv can overcome injury and get back on the field. But Hudson did okay Monday and I certainly would not complain if he had some sort of break out season.

Irv Smith is better

(09-28-2023, 12:14 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Irv Smith sucks less.

FTFY

None of our TE’s are good. But you’ll never admit the coaching staff dropped the ball on that one.

(09-27-2023, 10:28 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I agree the Panthers over paid him.  But like I said I would have liked the Bengals to have worked out a deal to keep him.  Certainly not at the same price the Panthers paid   him.  Maybe I should have clarified that in my earlier post.  It seems despite his claims last year that he "found a home," Hurst went for the money. I can't really blame him for that.

I too thought we'd retain Hurst. Although I wasn't overly surprised he left. For him and guys like Bell and Perine, this was essentially their only/last shot at payday in free agency. 

I know the Bengals do want a TE. They were looking for one in the 2022 draft. They were high on Kincaid and LaPorta in this year's draft. I'd just like them to be a little more aggressive in free agency towards a TE instead of sitting back and hoping for the best.

The TE threat has to be there for this offense to click, especially on third down when we need to move the sticks. Through three games our guys collectively have 2 first downs on 10 catches. One was on Hudson's 20 yard sprint down the seam on 2nd & 1, the other was to Irv in the RZ against Baltimore (I think it was on 3rd & short). But that's it. The rest have been checkdowns that don't make it, needing five but getting four, etc. Either way, 20% is an abysmal %. Hurst and Uzomah were always closer to 50%. If they don't get the ball that's fine. But when they do they need to be able to find the marker. Defenses will continue to crowd our guys downfield if they don't respect our Y inside.

Small sample size to be sure. Just saying it needs to get better than this. If Hudson can be that guy then let's go. I'm all for it.

Not ready to write Irv Smith off just yet but he does need to prove he can stay on the field.

Fine with me if Hudson makes the 53 and Sample goes down when Smith is healthy as well.

I'm not sure about simply elevating Hudson to TE1 just for the sake of it. However, I do feel like he deserves to get as much time on the field as situations allow, in order to make his case for being the starter.

(09-28-2023, 12:14 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Irv Smith is better

As Marvin would say "the best ability is availability" and Irv's track record is not good that area.

(09-27-2023, 09:52 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I need to pay more attention. Seriously thought he was an undrafted free agent.

I heard Joe Goodberry talking him up after the 1st week or so of training camp and I thought he was a UDFA as well at 1st. TE is a position it can take guys a while to figure out and start producing. I would really like to see Hudson continue to get some reps. Maybe Irv Smith needs another week or so to heal up.

I hope he stops tripping though one play can change the game!