Why do they always get a free pass from this fan Base? Duke and The Blackburns have been responsible for selecting players for the past decade +. However when anything ever goes wrong it either Marvin or Zacs fault. Their the ones that haven't drafted a decent offensive lineman in 10 + years and their the ones that let All Pro Players go for nothing(Whitorth and Bates).

I feel like they were blamed for 20+ years.

But yes...ultimately they oversee everything, including the coach.

(10-01-2023, 08:45 PM)J24 Wrote: Why do they always get a free pass from this fan Base? Duke and The Blackburns have been responsible for selecting players for the past decade +. However when anything ever goes wrong it either Marvin or Zacs fault. Their the ones that haven't drafted a decent offensive lineman in 10 + years and their the ones that let All Pro Players go for nothing(Whitorth and Bates).

Because they have built a talented roster.
Right now it’s bad play calling and QB play that’s killed this team. They made some choices that may not work out but over all you rely on coaches to coach up the young guys.
The FO has signed O linemen like Brown to help but they still need more. No line can keep “Statue Joe” clean right now.

One of my biggest gripes about this fan base is how much of a pass they've given Mike Brown and the FO over the last 20 years.

(10-01-2023, 08:50 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: Because they have built a talented roster.
Right now it’s bad play calling and QB play that’s killed this team.  They made some choices that may not work out but over all you rely on coaches to coach up the young guys.
The FO has signed O linemen like Brown to help but they still need more. No line can keep “Statue Joe” clean right now.

As you see now, the front office didn't get better at drafting. The lucked into Burrow and Chase.

Without Burrows brilliance, this team is 90s level bad.

They have spent mainly on defense.

(10-01-2023, 08:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I feel like they were blamed for 20+ years.

But yes...ultimately they oversee everything, including the coach.

The coach isn't the problem they are. 

2 examples 

1st-  Lou "It will be a dark day when Bell and Bates are not here". What does the front office do they let them both go. 

2nd Zac comes from the Shannon tree of coaching which requires athletic offensive lineman. In the past two seasons  the offensive line has had too change their system to a man gapping system because they were not athletic enough to run a typical zone blocking scheme.

(10-01-2023, 08:50 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: Because they have built a talented roster.
Right now it’s bad play calling and QB play that’s killed this team.  They made some choices that may not work out but over all you rely on coaches to coach up the young guys.
The FO has signed O linemen like Brown to help but they still need more. No line can keep “Statue Joe” clean right now.

Is it a top roster? 
The TE position is complete crap, the secondary doesn't have an elite player, the Dline doesn't have an elite player, and neither does the offensiveline. We don't have one capable blocking Running back on the roster either.
QB when healthy is elite and so are the Wrs but that's about it. I would say it's a good roster but it isn't great.

(10-01-2023, 08:45 PM)J24 Wrote: Why do they always get a free pass from this fan Base?

I can't wrap my head around you thinking this.

(10-01-2023, 08:58 PM)J24 Wrote: The coach isn't the problem they are. 

2 examples 

1st-  Lou "It will be a dark day when Bell and Bates are not here". What does the front office do they let them both go. 

2nd Zac comes from the Shannon tree of coaching which requires athletic offensive lineman. In the past two seasons  the offensive line has had too change their system to a man gapping system because they were not athletic enough to run a typical zone blocking scheme.

As far as Bates...salary cap. Bell, I agree.

As far as Zac...he gets credit when they sign a good player. No blame for bad.

4 of the 5 starters were brought in under Zac for the line.

(10-01-2023, 09:12 PM)J24 Wrote: Is it a top roster? 
The TE position is complete crap, the secondary doesn't have an elite player, the Dline doesn't have an elite player, and neither does the offensiveline. We don't have one capable blocking Running back on the roster either.
QB when healthy is elite and so are the Wrs but that's about it. I would say it's a good roster but it isn't great.

I'd say the defensive line is good.

(10-01-2023, 09:12 PM)J24 Wrote: Is it a top roster? 
The TE position is complete crap, the secondary doesn't have an elite player, the Dline doesn't have an elite player, and neither does the offensiveline. We don't have one capable blocking Running back on the roster either.
QB when healthy is elite and so are the Wrs but that's about it. I would say it's a good roster but it isn't great.

It’s a talented roster that made 2 AFCC games in a row and a SB. There’s talent but the play calling is terrible and the QB is killing this team right now. The O line is not great but it is a better line than the one that started the SB for sure.

Zac need to give up play calling and they need to sit Burrow

My one real gripe is that they should have been able to sign Bell for the money he got.

(10-01-2023, 09:30 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: It’s a talented roster that made 2 AFCC games in a row and a SB. There’s talent but the play calling is terrible and the QB is killing this team right now. The O line is not great but it is a better line than the one that started the SB for sure.

Zac need to give up play calling and they need to sit Burrow

So they play calling wasn't good when they went to the Superbowl or AFC championship? 

(10-01-2023, 09:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: As far as Bates...salary cap. Bell, I agree.

As far as Zac...he gets credit when they sign a good player. No blame for bad.

4 of the 5 starters were brought in under Zac for the line.

They had plenty of money to resign Bates the FO is just lazy with restructuring contracts and Zac gets the majority of blame here when anything goes wrong here.

(10-01-2023, 09:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'd say the defensive line is good.

It's good but not elite. Every other Championship contender has at least one elite player on it.

(10-01-2023, 09:12 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can't wrap my head around you thinking this.

When has Duke been called out?

(10-01-2023, 09:34 PM)J24 Wrote: So they play calling wasn't good when they went to the Superbowl or AFC championship? 

Not at all. The defense got us through the post season. That has been the elephant in the room for years. The offense has just kinda road the wave. 

There’s a player A, player B career playoff stats choice around social media between Cousins and Burrow and the player 100% of those polls chose to have as there playoff qb may surprise you. 

(10-01-2023, 09:41 PM)J24 Wrote: When has Duke been called out?

A lot, I'm sure.  We really only ignore the FO because we know it's never going to change, so it's just pointless to bring it up most times.  Sure things are better as of late, but I think the assertions that the Bengals aren't going to get the most out of Burrow have some merit and aren't just based around the media being butthurt that Burrow is going to win 10 SBs in Cincy and not in Pittsburgh or Dallas.

What did Mike Brown say to Burrow on that golf cart ride?  Was it "I'm paying you a lot of money, so get on the field and play" or what?  Who knows.  We're still operating under the idea that MB wants Burrow to play, and/or ZT needs Burrow to play, and/or Burrow is mentally ill to the point where he'd rather be literally killed on the football field than stand on the sidelines.

(10-01-2023, 09:47 PM)jj22 Wrote: Not at all. The defense got us through the post season. That has been the elephant in the room for years. The offense has just kinda road the wave. 

There’s a player A, player B career playoff stats choice around social media between Cousins and Burrow and the player 100% of those polls chose to have as there playoff qb may surprise you. 

Lol you can't be serious know one in their right mind that has watched Burrow would take Cousins over him.

(10-01-2023, 09:47 PM)jj22 Wrote: There’s a player A, player B career playoff stats choice around social media between Cousins and Burrow and the player 100% of those polls chose to have as there playoff qb may surprise you. 

Meh, stats are nice but Cousins is pretty much the answer to the question "What if the disappointment of the Marvin Lewis era were a QB?"