(10-01-2023, 10:19 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: It's gotta be Burrow, Ja'marr is the type to sit until something is fully healed. I remember his interview last year where he said I could have played but I sat out to give it just 1 more week. Ja'marr is very clear on where he stands with Burrow's injury and it has to be frustrating as hell that Joe is hell bent. Maybe Ja'marr should do what Zac apparently is incapable, tell Burrow he's hurting the team playing injured and don't come back until you think you're 100%. Gutting it out is for the Super Bowl, not this early on in the season.

I agree I think Chase is the only one brave enough to talk sense into Burrow. Also the FO and Zac need to bring their big boy pants and sit Burrow.

(10-01-2023, 09:12 PM)J24 Wrote: Is it a top roster? 
The TE position is complete crap, the secondary doesn't have an elite player, the Dline doesn't have an elite player, and neither does the offensiveline. We don't have one capable blocking Running back on the roster either.
QB when healthy is elite and so are the Wrs but that's about it. I would say it's a good roster but it isn't great.

(10-01-2023, 09:41 PM)J24 Wrote: When has Duke been called out?

Chido coming off an ACL, CTB is rising player and Dax is showing traits, the DBs should only improve.

The DLine has Reader who is elite vs the run and has 2 sacks (one called back). It is is silly to say he isnt. Trey is an upper tier pass rusher and Sam is an upper tier run defender.

Duke has been slammed for his decade of horrendous oline drafts, Billy Price, and John Ross. This most recent draft was extremely meh and 2022 wasnt great either.

Yes Cousins stats are very comparable to Burrow, we see it daily on Twitter.

Yes Zac's offensive scheme is not good. Our offense in the playoffs has not played to the level of the defense.

FO has been average draft-wise, offense and oline coaching has been poor, oline, and WRs, QB, TEs, Defensive play has been unacceptable.

(10-01-2023, 09:12 PM)J24 Wrote: Is it a top roster? 
The TE position is complete crap, the secondary doesn't have an elite player, the Dline doesn't have an elite player, and neither does the offensiveline. We don't have one capable blocking Running back on the roster either.
QB when healthy is elite and so are the Wrs but that's about it. I would say it's a good roster but it isn't great.

How many teams have game changing tight ends? KC and maybe bal. We do have elite dl- Hendrickson is elite.

We’re not losing because of the secondary. We need more pass rushers, and o line. Trenches. That’s it. And a healthy Burrow

I’m giving the d a pass until they blow a lead or don’t play double the snaps it seems in these losses as the offense.

When the offense can get first downs and a lead we saw the d shine. That’s the formula. It doesn’t have to be perfect and it wasn’t against the
Rams. But the level up in defensive play was felt.

The offense hasn’t helped the defense at all these games. Remember it was always going to take awhile for the D to adjust after losing Bate and Bell. We knew that so we can’t misdirect our frustration.

(10-01-2023, 10:29 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Chido coming off an ACL, CTB is rising player and Dax is showing traits, the DBs should only improve.

The DLine has Reader who is elite vs the run and has 2 sacks (one called back).  It is is silly to say he isnt.  Trey is an upper tier pass rusher and Sam is an upper tier run defender.

Duke has been slammed for his decade of horrendous oline drafts, Billy Price, and John Ross.  This most recent draft was extremely meh and 2022 wasnt great either.

Yes Cousins stats are very comparable to Burrow, we see it daily on Twitter.  

Yes Zac's offensive scheme is not good.  Our offense in the playoffs has not played to the level of the defense.

FO has been average draft-wise, offense and oline coaching has been poor, oline, and WRs, QB, TEs, Defensive play has been unacceptable.

1.) You didn't mention Scott who has been poor.  

2.) Reader is a good player but he isn’t on the level of a Jeffery Simmons or Myles Garrett. 

3.) Has he?  

4.) No! Just No! If you think Cousins is better than Burrow then get your brain examined! 

5.) Zac's offense have been fine in the playoffs. Also he has had a major weaknesse with the Offensive Line.

6.) 1.) We have drafted petty well since Burrow has been here outside of Offensive line.  My biggest issue with them has been FA and not valuing certain positions. 2.) Was the coaching poor when we won 10 straight games last season? 

(10-01-2023, 10:36 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: How many teams have game changing tight ends? KC and maybe bal. We do have elite dl- Hendrickson is elite.

We’re not losing because of the secondary. We need more pass rushers, and o line. Trenches. That’s it. And a healthy Burrow

We don't need game changing at TE but we do need better production. No Trey isn't elite; his run defense needs to be better(yes I know he had a huge TFL today). 

Our secondary wasn't good today and gave up a lot of easy receptions.

(10-01-2023, 11:50 PM)J24 Wrote: Our secondary wasn't good today and gave up a lot of easy receptions.

I was definitely disappointed in my boy CTB today. Got absolutely torched on that one deep ball.

While we are just message board members, I wonder what ownership thinks. This New Dey thing and we are pretty bad. This right after they give up a Brinks truck. I'm sure they expect a return on their investment. What do they think the problem is and what do they think can fix it?

(10-01-2023, 11:50 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) You didn't mention Scott who has been poor.  

So?  I didnt do a run down on the entire secondary, didnt know you needed one?


2.) Reader is a good player but he isn’t on the level of a Jeffery Simmons or Myles Garrett. 

They both play different positions, how do you NOT know this?  


3.) Has he?  

YES, he has, you can search my posts alone to see how many times I've slammed the drafting.


4.) No! Just No! If you think Cousins is better than Burrow then get your brain examined! 

Are you slow tonight?  No one said Cousins is better, his stats are weirdly comparable, AGAIN, there is a graphic that circulates on Twitter every other day that details this.  Maybe research it and maybe stop jumping to conclusions as to who I think is better, that was a stupid comment.


5.) Zac's offense have been fine in the playoffs. Also he has had a major weaknesse with the Offensive Line.

Our offense has been "fine" in the playoffs, but it hasnt won any games.  The O has not put up any great numbers in the playoffs, if you dont know this then stop making comments.  Burrows playoff stats are somewhat average.  The offense and play calling has not been great, ever.  Depending on a WR to win every snap and the QB to be extremely accurate is not a creative scheme.


6.) 1.) We have drafted petty well since Burrow has been here outside of Offensive line.  My biggest issue with them has been FA and not valuing certain positions. 2.) Was the coaching poor when we won 10 straight games last season? 
We don't need game changing at TE but we do need better production. No Trey isn't elite; his run defense needs to be better(yes I know he had a huge TFL today). 

1.). Drafting has NOT been great the last couple of years. We simply are not great evaluators and it shows when we draft in the bottom 3rd.

2.). Those 10 wins were great, let's have a look shall we?

Panthers were terrible.
Steelers rebuilding with a mid rookie QB in his 1st AFCN game.
Titans lost 8 in a row.
Browns had Deshaun playing his 2nd game in 2 years.
Brady was washed.
We got lucky in NE with a fumble on the 5 yard line.
Ravens played their 3rd string QB, then their 2nd string QB.

Buffalo and KC were the only 2 really good wins.



Our secondary wasn't good today and gave up a lot of easy receptions.

Our entire D wasnt good today Mr. Obvious.

Lol 

1.) Well he is a starter and he is replacing an elite player in Jessie Bates

2.) Myles Garrett and Jeffery Simmons do not play the same position either. It doesn't mean they impact the game any less. Yes Reader is an elite NT but you are not moving up and down the line creating mismatches either.

3.) In general not you.

4.)Burrow  is 5-2 vs Cousins who is 1-3, Burrow 3 games with a 100 QB Rating vs Cousins who has had 1, Burrow has played in 7 playoff games vs Cousins 4, Burrow has played in a Superbowl and 2 AFC Championship games vs Cousins who has played in none.  

Yes their overall QB Rating is similar but that's about it and Cousins only has had one good game against a bad Giants team. Which dilutes his stats a bit.

So comparing the two is a bit silly.

5.) Did you miss the Bills game last season?

6.) 2020- Burrow, Higgins, Wilson 2021- Chase, Ossai, McPherson, Sample 2022- Hill, and Britt.

10 wins is 10 wins.

(10-01-2023, 11:56 PM)Destro Wrote: While we are just message board members, I wonder what ownership thinks. This New Dey thing and we are pretty bad. This right after they give up a Brinks truck. I'm sure they expect a return on their investment. What do they think the problem is and what do they think can fix it?

Interesting question.

I think Duke and Katie need to listen more to what the coaches need in a player and not just what positions need to be filled.  Also maybe have council of players that tell you how important a player is. For example I think they really missed the boat on Bates not only from on the field but in the locker oomph as well.

(10-02-2023, 12:51 AM)J24 Wrote: Lol 

1.) Well he is a starter and he is replacing an elite player in Jessie Bates

Bates was not elite IMO.  And he has ZERO to do with this team or my comment. I mentioned the ones who are good when you said we had none.


2.) Myles Garrett and Jeffery Simmons do not play the same position either. It doesn't mean they impact the game any less. Yes Reader is an elite NT but you are not moving up and down the line creating mismatches either.

Maybe read up on how football works, there isnt much creatively one can do with a 330 pound NT, this is a dont know ball comment.


3.) In general not you.

Ok, just saying that I have, a lot.


4.)Burrow  is 5-2 vs Cousins who is 1-3, Burrow 3 games with a 100 QB Rating vs Cousins who has had 1, Burrow has played in 7 playoff games vs Cousins 4, Burrow has played in a Superbowl and 2 AFC Championship games vs Cousins who has played in none.  

Yes their overall QB Rating is similar but that's about it and Cousins only has had one good game against a bad Giants team. Which dilutes his stats a bit.

So comparing the two is a bit silly.

Reading comprehension issue #1 for you.  We are not comparing the players, simply stating that we see the stats brought up by others.  Do better.



5.) Did you miss the Bills game last season?

Reading comprehension #2.  I mentioned the Bills and KC.  Do better.


6.) 2020- Burrow, Higgins, Wilson 2021- Chase, Ossai, McPherson, Sample 2022- Hill, and Britt.

Reading comprehension #3.  I specifically said "We simply are not great evaluators and it shows when we draft in the bottom 3rd."  And your retort is we did well drafting #1 and #5?  I cant take you serious.


10 wins is 10 wins.

Yes 10 wins is 10 wins, but they were vs 70% vs way inferior opponents or $hit QBs, 10% luck, and 20% solid wins.


You never win these little back and forth arguments for obvious reasons.  I get it we suck right now, we all agree.   We can both agree to agree that I am right and end this silly discussion.   

1.) Bates is elite; look at what he is doing in ATL this year. 3 picks with 2 forced fumbles. 

2.) We need a pass rusher that can exploit weaknesses up and down the opposing offensive line. While also getting TFLs in the run game.
Reader while a great NT isn't that guy. Yes I know that his job is to take up space(which he is great at) and he is a very good pass rusher for a NT. 

3.) I gave you the stats and their not similar in anyway outside of QB Rating. Which was do to an outlier game by Cousins against a bad team in New York. Burrow has clearly been better in the playoffs then Kirk. Look at thier respective game logs and compare the two.




4) You-" Dax Hill and Britt are good players and will be stars" also you "We don't draft well at the end of rounds". Dax Hill was drafted with the 31st pick and Britt was drafted with the 60th pick.  So do you  not like those players now or were they good picks.( I'm not sure if you used the term "stars" but I know you think highly of them as players.)

 It's week 4 of the NFL season we have very little information on how this  past draft will grade out. I would say that the early feed back is favorable to a good draft. Murphy had a sack today, Turner has looked good in coverage, and Chuck sizzle has a punt return for.a TD this season. All those picks happened to be in the bottom third of their respective rounds.

10 straight wins is impressive no matter what in my book if it's not to you then ok. 

(10-02-2023, 01:06 AM)casear2727 Wrote: ,
Now we have revisionist history that Bates was elite?  He was NOT a ball hawk, not a great tackler and he gave up BOTH TDs in the AFCCG we lost.

Wilson, Pratt, Reader, Hubbard, Hilton, Chido... we have plenty of leadership in the locker room.  

Paying a FS 16M is about as dumb as can be in todays NFL, especially on our defense. Dax is showing serious traits.

  
Bates has had an 2nd team All Pro season and was the #1 rated Safety in 2020 according to PFF. He was a Top 10 Safety in 2023 according to PFF as well.
In the 2021 playoffs he had 6 pass breakups and 2 INT. He also forced the game changing INT for Vonn Bell in the AFC championship game. 
He lead the team in INTs along with Vonn Bell last season. He had a key TFL in the Wild Card game and saved a TD from happening (which lead to Hubbard's famous TD) on a long run.

Knocking him for giving up a TD to travis Kelce(arguably the greatest TE ever)is weird and the second TD was on Hilton.
https://atozsports.com/cincinnati/news-bengals-need-to-listen-to-joe-burrow-cincinnati/
Joe Burrow has a good quote on what Jessie meant to the team and his leadership. Also Reader and Auwzie are free agents + Hilton could be cut next off season. So we might have a huge leadership loss next season.
Also just curious; Why is it stupid to pay a safety big bucks?
Off topic
Were on a message board  and being the smartest football guy here is like being the tallest dwarf. It doesn't mean shit.
Take it from me (who has been an asshole in the past on this very board); this is a cool place and a great community to be a part of. You don't want to burn too many bridges here by being a jackass like myself.
I have learning disability and I get emotional( not anyone's fault but my own that i get emotional) when people elude to me being stupid. So I would appreciate it if you didn't make fun of my reading comprehension skills or things like that it hits different for me.

OK who hit the button....

(10-01-2023, 08:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: One of my biggest gripes about this fan base is how much of a pass they've given Mike Brown and the FO over the last 20 years.

Really! Mike Brown has been rightly criticized for the lost decade and many other items. This front office has made wrong decisions such over emphasizing WR and de-emphasizing the O line. This attitude has not changed for the past thirty years and this is what we get….a crap football team


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

1. They failed to address and add a legit backup QB when they knew Burrow's calf was ******.

2. They cheaped out on tight end and added a complete liability in Irv Smith. They didn't draft one to groom.

3. They didn't replace or re-sign Perine with a legit third down back capable of blocking/giving you something in the pass game.

4. They cheaped out and let BOTH Bates and Bell walk.

5. They did nothing to help the severly deficient pass rush other than draft a project with their first round pick.

6. They failed to re-sign Higgins.

All with 13 million in current cap space and 70 million in cap space next year.

Am I missing anything else?

I know we are all frustrated right now, but man...looking back it's kind of obvious this was going to be a shit show. Especially when Burrow injured his calf and all of the "will he or won't he play" hooplah started.

This team has some holes on it and it's only going to get worse. Reader, Boyd, Higgins, Chido, Jonah are all on the block next year.

Time to nut up, front office.

I remneber dubbing this year's FA was the "worst i've seen since Burrow was drafted" and people freaking laughed at me. Just because we went from a bad LT to a mid LT doesn't change that the front office twiddled their thumbs.

Burrow and the offense gave zero indication that they'd be able to fill the vaccum the defense had to fill for them to have success in the postseason.

The only failure the FO has done is not keep the coaches accountable for constantly underperforming. Having Bell walk was a mistake too. Everything else has been fine. OBjr has preformed like a top LT so far. So that was a great move

(10-02-2023, 12:10 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: I remneber dubbing this year's FA was the "worst i've seen since Burrow was drafted" and people freaking laughed at me. Just because we went from a bad LT to a mid LT doesn't change that the front office twiddled their thumbs.

Burrow and the offense gave zero indication that they'd be able to fill the vaccum the defense had to fill for them to have success in the postseason.

Don't change history. You claimed it was a failure literally 24 hours into free agency. You created your thread before teams could legally even sign people. The Brown signing hadn't even been a thought before you made your thread. 

Your thread at that time was, is, and always will be nonsense regardless of the outcome of this season. 

(10-02-2023, 12:08 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: 1. They failed to address and add a legit backup QB when they knew Burrow's calf was ******.  This is not a reality at all, they actually signed Siemain who had started 30 games and thrown over 7,000 yards which are in top half of most games played on the backup list... he did not work out, but other good teams ie Buffalo, Cleveland and others have weak backups or rookies behind them.  Really good backup QBs are few are far between and if they are out there, they prefer to go to a team where they might end up starting. 

2. They cheaped out on tight end and added a complete liability in Irv Smith. They didn't draft one to groom.  I did not like Smith signing give you that one

3. They didn't replace or re-sign Perine with a legit third down back capable of blocking/giving you something in the pass game.  Perine left on his own, bengals contract i read was more than he signed in Denver... they put faith in their backups and rookies that might have been wrong. I would have agreed with you if you stated should have replaced Mixon for the $$.

4. They cheaped out and let BOTH Bates and Bell walk.  They planned ahead on Bates and contract.. Hill has played better than anyone in our backfield and i watched Bates this year not playing to his contract.. They offered Bell a good contract thought he was resigning... so they did not let him walk

5. They did nothing to help the severly deficient pass rush other than draft a project with their first round pick.  We don't know who Murphy but late 1st round picks don't always start... but would have liked them to look at FA also

6. They failed to re-sign Higgins.  Well this sure looks like a smart thing when you look at his play, attitude and $$ he was costing us.. have to sign Chase before him and not hamper the team .  I still do what KC did.. trade Higgins after season get draft picks and use the $$ for other pressing needs

 I will debate some of your points

They failed to address and add a legit backup QB when they knew Burrow's calf was ******.


2. They cheaped out on tight end and added a complete liability in Irv Smith. They didn't draft one to groom.

3. They didn't replace or re-sign Perine with a legit third down back capable of blocking/giving you something in the pass game.

4. They cheaped out and let BOTH Bates and Bell walk.

5. They did nothing to help the severly deficient pass rush other than draft a project with their first round pick.

6. They failed to re-sign Higgins.

All with 13 million in current cap space and 70 million in cap space next year.

They can't trade Higgins after the season. He will be a free agent. If they franchise tag him, he still must sign an actual contract before a trade can take place. If he is traded it must happen before Nov 1