Never understood the whole "Bengals don't use TEs" it's false. Yes the offense revolved around the boundary receivers they were the big playmakers but Hurst was averaging 6 targets 4 catches a game right now the entire TE room is averaging about 2 targets 1 catch a game.

The Bengals have increased in pass attempts but the targets to the TE and RBs have gone down. Doesn't help that Ja'Marr Chase and Drew Sample are both taking running back reps regularly and they really shouldn't.

(10-17-2023, 07:19 AM)Synric Wrote: Never understood the whole "Bengals don't use TEs" it's false. Yes the offense revolved around the boundary receivers they were the big playmakers but Hurst was averaging 6 targets 4 catches a game right now the entire TE room is averaging about 2 targets 1 catch a game.

The Bengals have increased in pass attempts but the targets to the TE and RBs have gone down. Doesn't help that Ja'Marr Chase and Drew Sample are both taking running back reps regularly and they really shouldn't.

I agree I don’t think that it’s that they never use tight ends just, and don’t get me wrong if we had even a serviceable TE we’d be in much better shape. Because the guys we’ve got right now you almost don’t have to guard in the passing game.

At the same time if you want an impact TE it’s going to cost you and I’m not sure how much capital we want to expend on that position given what we’re spending at other skill positions.

If we can draft a decent TE next year I’m all for it or trade for someone who is at least able to run routes and catch the ball this year. But I don’t see any other options to really move the needle for this position at least for this year. It’s time to roll with Hudson or Wilcox and see what they can do.

(10-16-2023, 11:26 PM)Bengalion Wrote: What did happen to the Hudson hype train? Thought he was going to be the "next big thing". Drew Sample was drafted because Zac wanted a TE with blocking skills, and Smith Jr. is injury prone. I don't know why some fans think that the lack of a good TE is holding this offense back, I think we have enough firepower on the roster to put up points on the board. Of course having a player like Kyle Pitts would be a plus, but that should be a small concern for us since our offense is dealing with worse issues like the lack of consistence and the nonexistent running game.

Always was beyond comical. Guy in his age 29 season, undrafted, 4 different teams in 6 years, less than 20 career catches. Was never going to really be a thing.

The biggest reason it is a problem to the offense is because they are going to play a TE regardless of if they have a good TE or not on the roster, so having a shit TE out there is nearly the same as playing 10-on-11 when the defense has to worry about coverage. Then you factor in the shitty run game, so they can play light boxes against the run. Now all of a sudden they don't really have to worry about the RB on the field or the TE on the field and it's just 3 WRs that are the problem with 1 of them being incapable of playing football suddenly against everyone besides the Ravens. It vastly limits the worries of a defense, which is not good.

Having at least a decent TE is much the same as having at least NFL caliber backups at WR 4-6. If a player is going to see the field, they need at least a certain talent level, or you're really just hurting yourself because you're using one of your 11 players on the field to play a player that the opposing team doesn't really have to account for. It's too large of a disadvantage.

(10-16-2023, 07:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The Miami Dolphins are setting all-time Offensive records only surpassed by the STL Rams 2000 Greatest Show on Turf.

Two questions to the audience without googling:

Who is Miamis' starting TE

Who was then TE for The Greatest Show on Turf

Durham Smythe, who is still doing way more than Irv Smith.

While there are some teams who find ways to be effective without a good receiving TE (requiring dominant performance by 2-3 WRs), most good offense teams do have one.

The TEs on the teams that are 4-2 or better:
Eagles - Goedert
49ers - Kittle
Dolphins - Smythe
Chiefs - Kelce
Ravens - Andrews
Jags - Engram
Lions - LaPorta
Cowboys - Ferguson
Bills - Knox/Kincaid

2/3rds of those teams have TEs getting good production.

There was a play early on where Smith was wide open for a TD but Burrow went short to Chase instead.

(10-17-2023, 10:11 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Durham Smythe, who is still doing way more than Irv Smith.

While there are some teams who find ways to be effective without a good receiving TE (requiring dominant performance by 2-3 WRs), most good offense teams do have one.

The TEs on the teams that are 4-2 or better:
Eagles - Goedert
49ers - Kittle
Dolphins - Smythe
Chiefs - Kelce
Ravens - Andrews
Jags - Engram
Lions - LaPorta
Cowboys - Ferguson
Bills - Knox/Kincaid

2/3rds of those teams have TEs getting good production.

Exactly...Bengals appear a bit arrogant to be honest that the WR crew is so good they dont need a TE threat. We have seen thats not the case. 

(10-17-2023, 10:11 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Durham Smythe, who is still doing way more than Irv Smith.

While there are some teams who find ways to be effective without a good receiving TE (requiring dominant performance by 2-3 WRs), most good offense teams do have one.

The TEs on the teams that are 4-2 or better:
Eagles - Goedert
49ers - Kittle
Dolphins - Smythe
Chiefs - Kelce
Ravens - Andrews
Jags - Engram
Lions - LaPorta
Cowboys - Ferguson
Bills - Knox/Kincaid

2/3rds of those teams have TEs getting good production.

LaPorta would have looked really good in stripes…

(10-17-2023, 10:15 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: There was a play early on where Smith was wide open for a TD but Burrow went short to Chase instead.

No guarantee he’d even catch it from what I’ve seen of him.

(10-16-2023, 07:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The Miami Dolphins are setting all-time Offensive records only surpassed by the STL Rams 2000 Greatest Show on Turf.

Two questions to the audience without googling:

Who is Miamis' starting TE

Who was then TE for The Greatest Show on Turf

So we need to become the greatest show on whatever our playing surface is at Paycor?

(10-16-2023, 07:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The Miami Dolphins are setting all-time Offensive records only surpassed by the STL Rams 2000 Greatest Show on Turf.

Two questions to the audience without googling:

Who is Miamis' starting TE

Who was then TE for The Greatest Show on Turf

You could probably ask most fa bases who the starting tight end was on the bengals the last two years and they wouldn’t be able to name hurst or CJ U.

This team just doesn’t value the TE position. It seems to have caught up to them, through the first 1/3 of the 2023 season. This can be easily mitigated with some better play calling and execution.

(10-17-2023, 11:27 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: You could probably ask most fa bases who the starting tight end was on the bengals the last two years and they wouldn’t be able to name hurst or CJ U.  

This team just doesn’t value the TE position. It seems to have caught up to them, through the first 1/3 of the 2023 season.  This can be easily mitigated with some better play calling and execution.

Let's also be transparent that Uzomah and Hurst are better than Smith.

The most production Smith has had in a season was 365 yards, 5 TDs. Most receptions in a season was 36.

Uzomah? 49-493-5
Hurst? 56-571-6

Smith is not even in the same realm as those guys.

We're seeing that despite Bengals not valuing the TE position from a feature perspective, not just anyone can come in and get 400+ yards at TE. You still have to be decent.
Smith is not that right now.

(10-17-2023, 10:11 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Durham Smythe, who is still doing way more than Irv Smith.

While there are some teams who find ways to be effective without a good receiving TE (requiring dominant performance by 2-3 WRs), most good offense teams do have one.

The TEs on the teams that are 4-2 or better:
Eagles - Goedert
49ers - Kittle
Dolphins - Smythe
Chiefs - Kelce
Ravens - Andrews
Jags - Engram
Lions - LaPorta
Cowboys - Ferguson
Bills - Knox/Kincaid

2/3rds of those teams have TEs getting good production.

Eh, define good production. kittle has two games over 30 yards, and one game with more than 3 catches. He has two games with one catch. He did have one monster game, where all 3 catches went for TDs.

2/3rds of those teams have top 10 defenses

2/3rds of those teams have good QBs

2/3rds of those teams have great coaching staffs

I don’t think tight end is the sole reason, let alone biggest, that those teams are 4-2.

The only team listed above, that isn’t in the top 12 in rushing yards per game is Jacksonville. I’d say this is the biggest reason those teams are 4-2, or better.

(10-17-2023, 11:35 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Let's also be transparent that Uzomah and Hurst are better than Smith.

The most production Smith has had in a season was 365 yards, 5 TDs. Most receptions in a season was 36.

Uzomah? 49-493-5
Hurst? 56-571-6

Smith is not even in the same realm as those guys.

We're seeing that despite Bengals not valuing the TE position from a feature perspective, not just anyone can come in and get 400+ yards at TE. You still have to be decent.
Smith is not that right now.

I’m surprised, but you are right. I’d call and see what a guy like Zach ertz (on one end) or Kyle pitts (on the other) would cost. Darren Waller would also be another guy, albeit likely for only one year.

(10-17-2023, 11:38 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I’m surprised, but you are right.  I’d call and see what a guy like Zach ertz (on one end) or Kyle pitts (on the other) would cost.  Darren Waller would also be another guy, albeit likely for only one year.

Why would ATL trade Pitts?

They are 3-3 and only 0.5 game behind the division lead.
Pitts is 7th among all TEs for receiving yards.

There's no way they would trade him (IMO).

Out of the potential TEs who might make the most sense, I look at someone like Mike Gesicki in NE.
On a cheap deal, still under 30 years old (that matters to the Bengals coaches), he's playing second fiddle behind Hunter Henry, and NE is doing bad.
He might be a perfect option to trade like a 6th or 7th rounder for.

(10-17-2023, 11:58 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Why would ATL trade Pitts?

I've seen this sentiment posted a few times on the board and also wonder where the idea is coming from. Why would ATL already look to trade him?

(10-17-2023, 12:00 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I've seen this sentiment posted a few times on the board and also wonder where the idea is coming from. Why would ATL already look to trade him?

He is effectively their number 2 TE.

If we're not going to get a good TE, I say just roll with Sample as much as possible at TE. I don't recall him having a problem with drops and he's an excellent blocker. Just leave him on the field as much as possible and it adds to the unpredictability of the offense as teams won't know if we're running or passing since Sample is now out there on both types of plays.

(10-17-2023, 11:58 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Why would ATL trade Pitts?

They are 3-3 and only 0.5 game behind the division lead.
Pitts is 7th among all TEs for receiving yards.

There's no way they would trade him (IMO).

Out of the potential TEs who might make the most sense, I look at someone like Mike Gesicki in NE.
On a cheap deal, still under 30 years old (that matters to the Bengals coaches), he's playing second fiddle behind Hunter Henry, and NE is doing bad.
He might be a perfect option to trade like a 6th or 7th rounder for.

(10-17-2023, 12:00 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I've seen this sentiment posted a few times on the board and also wonder where the idea is coming from. Why would ATL already look to trade him?

Falcons would likely trade Pitts for Higgins quickly.

(10-17-2023, 12:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: If we're not going to get a good TE, I say just roll with Sample as much as possible at TE. I don't recall him having a problem with drops and he's an excellent blocker. Just leave him on the field as much as possible and it adds to the unpredictability of the offense as teams won't know if we're running or passing since Sample is now out there on both types of plays.

That's because over the last 2 years he has 5 catches for 8 yards. Lol

The last time Sample had at least 15 yards in a game where the Bengals didn't lose by 4+ scores was December 2020.

If you're going to play Sample nonstop, honestly just go back to 2009 and start 6 OL instead.

(10-17-2023, 12:22 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Falcons would likely trade Pitts for Higgins quickly.

I dunno about that because of the contract situation.

Pitts would still be on his rookie deal for two more seasons, and his 5th year option will be cheaper because it'd be TE salaries to calculate. (Or I thought it was treated the same way as tag calculation)

Meanwhile, Higgins would be FA after this season, and the Falcons would have to pay him a good amount to keep him. There's risk there.

Also, why would the Bengals want to give up a WR in Higgins to get a TE upgrade?
That doesn't really improve them for this year.

(10-17-2023, 12:26 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's because over the last 2 years he has 5 catches for 8 yards. Lol

The last time Sample had at least 15 yards in a game where the Bengals didn't lose by 4+ scores was December 2020.

If you're going to play Sample nonstop, honestly just go back to 2009 and start 6 OL instead.

Yep people need to stop caring so much about drops and be more concerned with the actual yardage and TD production.

Who is better - A guy who gets 300 yards but 0 drops, or a guy who gets 500 yards and like 5-10 drops? Personally, I go with the latter.