(11-14-2023, 05:53 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: I don’t think anyone is making the argument that Burrow isn’t really freaking good. He’s amazing. However, this year, when considering what we’re paying him, he needs to be better. You shouldn’t be paid as the best QB in the league and then play like the 5th or 6th. You should play like top 1-2. Maybe 3. Either way, he’s not good enough right now. We should have beat the Texans. Burrow threw 2 interceptions. That wasn’t elite. And this year he hasn’t been good enough. I wouldn’t trade him for any other QB in the league (except Mahomes. That guy is just too damn good). But my man’s gonna play a little better. Isn’t that fair to say?

I mean....he started the year with an injury. Since week 5...Do I need to bring up the stats again?

1st in completion%
3rd in touchdown passes
4th in yards

When he's healthy, he's still Burrow, and worth the money. 

When he's playing injured, which he clearly was weeks 1-4(couldnt maneuver or scramble in the pocket), then his play will suffer

you're acting like he was healthy weeks 1-4. He's been elite when healthy. And he's currently healthy

(11-14-2023, 05:58 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I mean....he started the year with an injury.

When he's playing injured, which he clearly was weeks 1-4(couldnt maneuver or scramble in the pocket), then his play will suffer

you're acting like he was healthy weeks 1-4. He's been elite when healthy. And he's currently healthy

Honestly I don’t think we’ve seen the best of Joe Burrow yet this season. On the bench his right calf is still getting treatment while the defense is on the field. While I believe Joe is far more healthy than he was in the first few weeks of the season I think he’ll get even stronger. For him to succeed against the Ratbirds on Thursday Night he’ll have to leave the pocket and throw on the run.

(11-14-2023, 05:53 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Oh, is that what it is? Take away Stroud's last 2 games and he's an average QB at best. 


So, you're saying that an 80 yard run is a bad play. Got it. What, that's NOT what you're saying? Well, excuse me, when you claim that someone did NOT have a great game even though they had an 80 yard run, I can't help but think that's what you're saying.

Yes, context matters and sure, I'd probably agree with you that a RB that had 110 yards but most came on 1 play didn't have a "great" game. But, that's not what occurred with Burrow, is it? Take away the bomb to Chase and Burrow's stats are: 35 of 45, 77.8% comp 254 yards 2 TDs and 1 INT. Oh yeah, that surely the equivalent to a RB getting 1 ypc on 30 carries.

As far as the CJ Stroud comment goes. You understand the reason he’s not considered to 4 right now is because of context and that it’s only been a couple amazing games. So that’s exactly what has been done.

254 yards on 45 attempts is not good. I’m sorry you think it is. 317 yards on.46 attempts isn’t good.

Good grief what an exhausting discussion. Never thought I’d see Burrow get this kind of scrutiny. Such a waste of a discussion. I mean the appreciation of this franchise and players by some is disheartening. Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid recently got 9 points and no TD’s against Denver. It’s the NFL. It’s not easy.

(11-14-2023, 06:07 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Good grief what an exhausting discussion. Never thought I’d see Burrow get this kind of scrutiny. Such a waste of a discussion. I mean the appreciation of this franchise and players by some is disheartening. Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid recently got 9 points and no TD’s against Denver. It’s the NFL. It’s not easy.

Scrutiny? Are you kidding? He’s untouchable as you can tell by simply everyone freaking out just because I asked if he could be better. Do you not have anything to say about him being 3-16 When opposing teams score more than 24 points? We also scored only 3 points twice this year so even only scoring 9 was 6 points better than 2 of our games.

(11-14-2023, 06:11 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Scrutiny? Are you kidding? He’s untouchable as you can tell by simply everyone freaking out just because I asked if he could be better. Do you not have anything to say about him being 3-16 When opposing teams score more than 24 points? We also scored only 3 points twice this year so even only scoring 9 was 6 points better than 2 of our games.

he's literally top tier elite since recovering from his injury in week 5. You're being ridiculous 

(11-14-2023, 06:07 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: As far as the CJ Stroud comment goes. You understand the reason he’s not considered to 4 right now is because of context and that it’s only been a couple amazing games. So that’s exactly what has been done.

254 yards on 45 attempts is not good. I’m sorry you think it is. 317 yards on.46 attempts isn’t good.

Says context is important immediately posts 2 stats out of context judging an entire 2 games based on 2 out-of-context stats.

(11-14-2023, 06:14 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Yet he’s 3-2 with also needing a Herculean effort from his defense against Seattle away from being 2-3. I’m sorry- it’s not impressive.

since week 5 the bengals are is 4-1.

Rube isnt even paying attention to the season. Lets just ignore this....thing? person?

(11-14-2023, 06:11 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Do you not have anything to say about him being 3-16 When opposing teams score more than 24 points? 

So now it's Burrow's fault when the defense plays like ass.

(11-14-2023, 06:12 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: he's literally top tier elite since recovering from his injury in week 5. You're being ridiculous 

Context matters! You can only take away the good plays and games. You must absolutely keep in the bad games and bad plays.

(11-14-2023, 06:12 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: he's literally top tier elite since recovering from his injury in week 5. You're being ridiculous 

He’s had a good stretch. But is a heruculean effort from his defense against Seattle from being 3-2 in that stretch. Also in that stretch our defense has created 14 turnovers which is better than 19 teams have had ALL season. Without those turnovers we likely lose 2 more of those 5 games potentially 3. Against Burrow is great, but we are winning with him and not because even in this stretch.

3-16

(11-14-2023, 06:16 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So now it's Burrow's fault when the defense plays like ass.

Sorry- that’s again just disingenuous. 3 wins in your career when CJ stroud has 2 such games in 2 weeks. Mahomes had 5 last year alone, Eagles have had 3 wins just this year. This just proves cincy has been wining WITH Burrow and not Because of.

(11-14-2023, 06:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Context matters! You can only take away the good plays and games. You must absolutely keep in the bad games and bad plays.

I literally included the full story in the post. Which was still below avg. I’m sorry you can’t actually rebutt it and are resorting to just being abnoxious..

(11-14-2023, 06:25 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Sorry- that’s again just disingenuous. 3 wins in your career when CJ stroud has 2 such games in 2 weeks. Mahomes had 5 last year alone, Eagles have had 3 wins just this year. This just proves cincy has been wining WITH Burrow and not Because of.

It is not disingenuous. You are literally claiming that it is Burrow's fault we lose when the defense sucks.

(11-14-2023, 06:26 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I literally included the full story in the post. Which was still below avg. I’m sorry you can’t actually rebutt it and are resorting to just being abnoxious..

Uh, no you didn't. You listed his ypa with the Chase pass and without. That's not the full story. There was more to that game than just 1 pass and however many attempts there were. You ignore all the completions, you ignore the TD, you ignore the play of the offensive line, you ignore any and all drops from receivers, you ignore the offensive gameplan, you ignore what the Card's defense was doing, etc. I can keep going on, but now, you focus on 1 stat and claim that tells the "whole story" all the while preaching context matters while you continuously ignore context.

(11-14-2023, 06:29 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It is not disingenuous. You are literally claiming that it is Burrow's fault we lose when the defense sucks.

So losing 27-3 twice this year is the defense sucking? Losing 34-10 last Halloween is just the defenses fault? Losing 30-27 when your defense gave you 3 turnovers is only the fault of the defense? Isn’t your high priced QB supposed to be able to win you games when not everything is going well? Or does everything have to be going perfect around him to win games because that sure seems to be what you’re arguing.

(11-14-2023, 06:11 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Scrutiny? Are you kidding? He’s untouchable as you can tell by simply everyone freaking out just because I asked if he could be better. Do you not have anything to say about him being 3-16 When opposing teams score more than 24 points? We also scored only 3 points twice this year so even only scoring 9 was 6 points better than 2 of our games.

He could be better if he had a better OL like the other top QB’s and a better TE.

(11-14-2023, 08:52 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Lou gave up 550 yards as he typically does this year.
I’m thinking no offense beats dat.

If Bengals management is going to keep letting good defensive players leave so they can use that money to pay the guys on offense, the offense needs to carry the team instead of Lou's defense from now on.  You see what not having Bates and Bell and Apple has done to the secondary.  Those guys in the secondary look like they have no clue.  And Lou also lost Ogunjobi before last season.  When you keep losing talent from the defense like that, you just arent going to be as good.   Lou didnt suddenly become a bad DC.  He just doesnt have the same talent now and that is because the Bengals have decided to spend the money on the offensive players so the offense needs to step up.  Boyd needs to make that TD catch.  Burrow needs to stop throwing 2 interceptions in the 4th.  The Oline needs to block better.  If the offense is where the Bengals are spending the money, the offense needs to get carry the team and get it done.

(11-14-2023, 06:33 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Uh, no you didn't. You listed his ypa with the Chase pass and without. That's not the full story. There was more to that game than just 1 pass and however many attempts there were. You ignore all the completions, you ignore the TD, you ignore the play of the offensive line, you ignore any and all drops from receivers, you ignore the offensive gameplan, you ignore what the Card's defense was doing, etc. I can keep going on, but now, you focus on 1 stat and claim that tells the "whole story" all the while preaching context matters while you continuously ignore context.

You’re right I didn’t include it all. I also ignored the defense getting 3 turnovers, one resulting in 6 points. I ignored 2 of his TD passes he had over 4 seconds to throw the ball. I ignored that on one of their field goal drives they moved the ball 26 yards but started on ARZ 48 thanks to D and special teams. I ignored that after that drive the combined for -1 yard their next two drives then turned it over on downs. I ignored that going into halftime that game they would have been losing if not for the pick 6. I ignored that they followed up a ARZ TD with an interception by Burrow. Only for the defense to bail them out by getting ARZ to get a Turnover on downs. Who (defense) followed up the rest of the game fumble, interception, turnover on downs, end of game. That enough context for you?

Sorry- this tells me more about defense than Burrow.

(11-14-2023, 06:37 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: He could be better if he had a better OL like the other top QB’s and a better TE.

I agree with that.