Seriously, what are we doing? The fire Zach stuff makes our fanbase look incredibly dumb.

The guy has given us more playoff success the past two years than I have had in my ENTIRE lifetime. One Super Bowl appearance, two AFC Championship games, 5 playoff wins. Were we really expecting to go places this year with Browning as our QB? I mean the season is chalked up as a loss as soon as Burrow's ligament exploded. We aren't winning anything with him the same way the Colts weren't winning anything without Peyton Manning.

Is he perfect? No. But no head coach is. People bag on his offense (although they've been REALLY good when Joe is healthy) but...

his offense is a by product of what BURROW likes to do as a QB. It's THEIR offense. It's a collaboration between ZT, Callahan, and Burrow. It won't change unless Burrow want's it to change...and it actually works when Burrow is healthy.

I guess I just don't get why everyone is so emotional and wants to fire ZT all of the sudden. Sure there are some changes that the team needs to make (running the ball better, protecting Joe better, etc.) but firing a coach seems a bit extreme and emotional and weird to me.

(12-01-2023, 12:50 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Seriously, what are we doing? The fire Zach stuff makes our fanbase look incredibly dumb.

The guy has given us more playoff success the past two years than I have had in my ENTIRE lifetime. One Super Bowl appearance, two AFC Championship games, 5 playoff wins. Were we really expecting to go places this year with Browning as our QB? I mean the season is chalked up as a loss as soon as Burrow's ligament exploded. We aren't winning anything with him the same way the Colts weren't winning anything without Peyton Manning.

Is he perfect? No. But no head coach is. People bag on his offense (although they've been REALLY good when Joe is healthy) but...

his offense is a by product of what BURROW likes to do as a QB. It's THEIR offense. It's a collaboration between ZT, Callahan, and Burrow. It won't change unless Burrow want's it to change...and it actually works when Burrow is healthy.

I guess I just don't get why everyone is so emotional and wants to fire ZT all of the sudden. Sure there are some changes that the team needs to make (running the ball better, protecting Joe better, etc.) but firing a coach seems a bit extreme and emotional and weird to me.

Because of what you wrote in your last paragraph: people think with their emotions.

That's the problem with the world today, people don't use logic, common-sense or practicality and think/act based on their feelings: the, "fire Zac," nonsense is just that.

I'm not going to get into it more as this is not P&R, but, "acting on your feelings," is why a lot of the world is ****** up.

(12-01-2023, 01:08 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Because of what you wrote in your last paragraph: people think with their emotions.

That's the problem with the world today, people don't use logic, common-sense or practicality and think/act based on their feelings: the, "fire Zac," nonsense is just that.

I'm not going to get into it more as this is not P&R, but, "acting on your feelings," is why a lot of the world is ****** up.

Exactly, too many knee-jerk, broken hearted reactions with no basis in any sort of logic.  On the other side, perhaps this situation with Burrow down will convince Taylor that his roster/scheme needs to be able to absorb the loss of your primary star and still have success in order to win championships?

Preach, good sir!

(12-01-2023, 12:50 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Seriously, what are we doing? The fire Zach stuff makes our fanbase look incredibly dumb.

The guy has given us more playoff success the past two years than I have had in my ENTIRE lifetime. One Super Bowl appearance, two AFC Championship games, 5 playoff wins. Were we really expecting to go places this year with Browning as our QB? I mean the season is chalked up as a loss as soon as Burrow's ligament exploded. We aren't winning anything with him the same way the Colts weren't winning anything without Peyton Manning.

Is he perfect? No. But no head coach is. People bag on his offense (although they've been REALLY good when Joe is healthy) but...

his offense is a by product of what BURROW likes to do as a QB. It's THEIR offense. It's a collaboration between ZT, Callahan, and Burrow. It won't change unless Burrow want's it to change...and it actually works when Burrow is healthy.

I guess I just don't get why everyone is so emotional and wants to fire ZT all of the sudden. Sure there are some changes that the team needs to make (running the ball better, protecting Joe better, etc.) but firing a coach seems a bit extreme and emotional and weird to me.

People don't like the way the offense looks.  They want a '90's era offense where the team comes out in I-form with a FB and runs power(even though most calling for this don't actually know what power actually is) with a lot of play action.

The "Fire Zac" talk is pretty annoying. I agree with all of you on the knee-jerk emotional crap. WTS, there are changes I feel need to be made on this team. Will Zac do what I think he should do? Probably not, but that doesn't make him a bad coach. His vision is different than mine and I will respect it simply because he hears and sees things I don't. We're not sitting in the locker room or film study. We don't get to sit down with the FO and hear the opinions and goals. So for that reason, he gets the benefit of the doubt. 

I get some people question his play calling, and the coaching staffs overall gameplan at times. But simply when it works, we love it and when it doesn't, we don't. I'm not saying to have blind loyalty because that's not what being a fan is all about. Fans are emotionally involved with their teams. Yet sometimes, it's a bit overboard.  

(12-01-2023, 01:53 PM)Whatever Wrote: People don't like the way the offense looks.  They want a '90's era offense where the team comes out in I-form with a FB and runs power(even though most calling for this don't actually know what power actually is) with a lot of play action.

In 2023 Taylor is completely clueless for running a "one dimensional offense" with the Bengals passing on 66.5% of their plays (2nd highest in the league).

But in 2022 Taylor was a brilliant coach taking us to the conference championship game with an offense that was passing on 62.3% of its plays (5th highest in the league).

Fans criticize play-calling based on results, not the actual calls.  A coach can call the exact same play in the exact same situation and see it praised when it works but criticized if it fails.  If a coach plays the percentages and it fails he is "too conservative", but if he tries something outside the box and it fails he is stupid for not "doing what every other coach in the league would have done" or "Getting too fancy". 

ZT is going to be here for at least another 10+ years, so it's a safe thing to talk about because it's never going to happen. With that being said, why are people so insistent on ZT giving up playcalling duties given how much success he's had here?

A lack of belief that Zac will fire himself as playcaller and put an end to the 6-man think tank he's built to support it.

I don't particularly want him gone as HC, but will he willingly take his hands off the offense and bring in someone new to be the actual OC?

(12-01-2023, 01:53 PM)Whatever Wrote: People don't like the way the offense looks.  They want a '90's era offense where the team comes out in I-form with a FB and runs power(even though most calling for this don't actually know what power actually is) with a lot of play action.

Who are "they", can you name them?  I've seen a lot of fans wanting an offense that can move the ball on the ground and mix in a little PA, but I've seen literally no one calling for a "90s style offense".  Dropping back in shotgun and slinging it is great, until it don't work any more.  Then, you MUST have an alternative plan that works if you want to be a consistent winner and compete for championships in the NFL.

(12-01-2023, 02:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: A lack of belief that Zac will fire himself as playcaller and put an end to the 6-man think tank he's built to support it.

I don't particularly want him gone as HC, but will he willingly take his hands off the offense and bring in someone new to be the actual OC?

Sir, we made the SB and the AFC Championship game with ZT calling plays and Callahan as the OC, did we not?

I like Zac Taylor the head coach and hate Zac Taylor the play caller. Can I fire ZT the OC? I just think its hard to call plays AND do all the things a HC has to do in game. Nick Sirriani gave up playcalling and look how good Philly is now. I wish ZT would do the same.

(12-01-2023, 02:16 PM)BurrowTheGoat Wrote: I like Zac Taylor the head coach and hate Zac Taylor the play caller.  Can I fire ZT the OC?  I just think its hard to call plays AND do all the things a HC has to do in game.  Nick Sirriani gave up playcalling and look how good Philly is now.  I wish ZT would do the game.

Actually, the scripted drives have went really well this season.  Perhaps we could just convince Taylor to "script" entire games, with alternative scripts for given situations, like a 'choose your own adventure' for play calling?

I think it is fair to be critical of him, but I agree it is foolish to want to fire him. I wasn't sure if it was him or Burrow checking out of run plays that made us run the ball so infrequently, but Brownings first game it was the same as before, rarely running the ball. I understand this is a pass first team and it's not like I want it to be a 50/50 split, but sometimes it seems to just disappear entirely.

Granted some of that may be the OL and Mixon not performing well. Hard to trust the run when your ypc is under 3. If any coach needs replaced imo it is Frank Pollack. a new OL coach may not save the OL but I doubt they could make it worse, might as well take a shot.

(12-01-2023, 02:12 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Sir, we made the SB and the AFC Championship game with ZT calling plays and Callahan as the OC, did we not?

The offense has looked progressively worse every year since the SB year as teams realized our SB offense was "Burrow do amazing things and Chase burn guys". The SB year is getting further away, next year it'll have been 3 years since the Bengals offense actually looked like it actually had a top-3 QB and the best WR trio in the NFL. Instead now we consistently get to see 30+ game minute stretches of scoring 0-3 points.

(12-01-2023, 02:29 PM)Garrus Wrote:  If any coach needs replaced imo it is Frank Pollack. 

I don't want him fired, he has proven he is a good HC. His players play hard for him. His teams have brought playoff runs and ushered in a better, more self-disciplined culture. What I WOULD like to see is Callahan and Frank Polyp hit the road. Nothing against Callahan, but we sure could use an NFL-quality OC who can scheme up a run game and use it EFFECTIVELY. Let the new Offensive Line coach worry about his line. Let the new OC worry about the weekly game plan as a WHOLE.

(12-01-2023, 02:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The offense has looked progressively worse every year since the SB year as teams realized our SB offense was "Burrow do amazing things and Chase burn guys". The SB year is getting further away, next year it'll have been 3 years since the Bengals offense actually looked like it actually had a top-3 QB and the best WR trio in the NFL. Instead now we consistently get to see 30+ game minute stretches of scoring 0-3 points.

I was being facetious but I hear ya.  The thing is, we seem to want to hold onto ZT's accomplishments but we also want him to change, which opens up the question IF he doesn't change...then what?  Are we pissed?  Do we want him fired to bring it someone who won't insist on calling plays himself?  

Is ZT good?  Sure, why not I can get behind that.  I do know that he's here for the long haul and that almost certainly wouldn't change if he refuses to change his course about playcalling. 

I am not in the 'Fire Zac' camp, I think that is ridiculous.

But I am in the camp that thinks they should always be looking to improve coaching on offense, from a new OC, playcaller, and to OL coach. And looking to improve off-season moves in draft and free agency which is desperately needed going forward imo.

If Zach Taylor was fired he would be one of the first coaches hired during the coaching carousel. The cultural turn around of this organization is something we have taken for granted lately, but MANY organizations would die to have him come do it for them.