I think Bowers would be more valuable than Tee or actually any X receiver that we could draft or find in free agency.

He'd occupy safeties in the middle of the field and also keep backers occupied. He'd also make it easier for Burrow because Burrow wouldn't have to look all the way to the other side of the field to find his #2 target.

He'd also be a great safety outlet for Burrow because, yes, our line should be improved with firing Pollack and drafting or signing free agents, but it's doubtful that they'll suddenly be elite and teams are investing in the pass rush more than ever because it's a passing league.

I would be all for drafting a lineman early if this were a strong class for linemen (tackles), but it's not, meaning that we'd be passing on a game-changer for us and drafting a guy that might not make much of a difference.

We'll be picking in the top ten, and we'll want a player that will make an impact, and no lineman in this draft could possibly make anywhere near as big of a difference as Bowers would.

Am I the only one on the Bowers train?

(11-28-2023, 03:34 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I think Bowers would be more valuable than Tee or actually any X receiver that we could draft or find in free agency.

He'd occupy safeties in the middle of the field and also keep backers occupied. He'd also make it easier for Burrow because Burrow wouldn't have to look all the way to the other side of the field to find his #2 target.

He'd also be a great safety outlet for Burrow because, yes, our line should be improved with firing Pollack and drafting or signing free agents, but it's doubtful that they'll suddenly be elite and teams are investing in the pass rush more than ever because it's a passing league.

I would be all for drafting a lineman early if this were a strong class for linemen (tackles), but it's not, meaning that we'd be passing on a game-changer for us and drafting a guy that might not make much of a difference.

We'll be picking in the top ten, and we'll want a player that will make an impact, and no lineman in this draft could possibly make anywhere near as big of a difference as Bowers would.

Am I the only one on the Bowers train?

You're definitely not the only one on that train.
He's my favorite prospect in the draft.

With that said, can the Bengals utilize such a TE properly in an offense to make it worth such an early investment?
Will they get an OT in FA or Rd 2 that can step in and cover RT properly such that the Bengals can feel good about spending their 1st rounder on a pass catcher instead of a blocker?

(11-28-2023, 03:34 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I think Bowers would be more valuable than Tee or actually any X receiver that we could draft or find in free agency.

He'd occupy safeties in the middle of the field and also keep backers occupied. He'd also make it easier for Burrow because Burrow wouldn't have to look all the way to the other side of the field to find his #2 target.

He'd also be a great safety outlet for Burrow because, yes, our line should be improved with firing Pollack and drafting or signing free agents, but it's doubtful that they'll suddenly be elite and teams are investing in the pass rush more than ever because it's a passing league.

I would be all for drafting a lineman early if this were a strong class for linemen (tackles), but it's not, meaning that we'd be passing on a game-changer for us and drafting a guy that might not make much of a difference.

We'll be picking in the top ten, and we'll want a player that will make an impact, and no lineman in this draft could possibly make anywhere near as big of a difference as Bowers would.

Am I the only one on the Bowers train?

I've been all about Brock Bowers since he emerged his Freshman year.  However, you're making a huge assumption that Zac Taylor will re-write his entire offensive play book, in order to design an offense where the TE is the #2 target on majority of passing plays.

I'm on the Bowers train and I don't care about the perceived TE value in the first round. I don't think he'll be available when the Bengals pick. I'm sticking with my belief that the Bengals draft Keon Coleman, WR. Coleman is a Tee-like player.

(11-28-2023, 11:43 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I've been all about Brock Bowers since he emerged his Freshman year.  However, you're making a huge assumption that Zac Taylor will re-write his entire offensive play book, in order to design an offense where the TE is the #2 target on majority of passing plays.

Brock Bowers would be the other target in the route combinations with Ja'Marr Chase. Similar to what Buffalo is doing with Diggs and Kincaid.

(11-28-2023, 01:59 PM)Synric Wrote: Brock Bowers would be the other target in the route combinations with Ja'Marr Chase. Similar to what Buffalo is doing with Diggs and Kincaid.

I understand that.  What I'm saying is that Zac Taylor's play book appears to have the TE to be the 3rd or even 4th look on most passing plays.  Simply an outlet.  Or, I guess it could possibly be that Joe Burrow just likes to force feed the ball to the WRs?

(11-28-2023, 02:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I understand that.  What I'm saying is that Zac Taylor's play book appears to have the TE to be the 3rd or even 4th look on most passing plays.  Simply an outlet.  Or, I guess it could possibly be that Joe Burrow just likes to force feed the ball to the WRs?

In a post-game earlier this year Zac was asked about using the TE position and replied it didn't happen as much since he has 3 of the best WRs in the NFL. His answer felt honest, but I couldn't infer if it meant he was open to using TEs more if that is what the roster talent dictated.

(11-28-2023, 02:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I understand that.  What I'm saying is that Zac Taylor's play book appears to have the TE to be the 3rd or even 4th look on most passing plays.  Simply an outlet.  Or, I guess it could possibly be that Joe Burrow just likes to force feed the ball to the WRs?

If we had a tight end like Bowers, I'm sure Zac would make him the #2 target.

We had Hurst here, who was a first round pick (20s) and he had the second most catches of his career here (only four less than the most) and he played in three less games.

Bowers is a hell of a lot better than Hurst and, if we have Bowers, Burrow's not going to just sit back and let Zac not use him.x

Furthermore, Zac would have a say in the draft and isn't going to let Duke draft someone if he has no intentions of utilizing him.

Burrow knows that the line still likely won't be great, especially if we don't get rid of Pollack, so he'll want a tight end like Bowers as an outlet.

(11-28-2023, 04:04 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: If we had a tight end like Bowers, I'm sure Zac would make him the #2 target.

We had Hurst here, who was a first round pick (20s) and he had the second most catches of his career here (only four less than the most) and he played in three less games.

Bowers is a hell of a lot better than Hurst and, if we have Bowers, Burrow's not going to just sit back and let Zac not use him.x

Furthermore, Zac would have a say in the draft and isn't going to let Duke draft someone if he has no intentions of utilizing him.

Burrow knows that the line still likely won't be great, especially if we don't get rid of Pollack, so he'll want a tight end like Bowers as an outlet.

There it is, again.  The TE is just an afterthought in the Zac Taylor offense.  He's not going to keep his existing playbook and just dictate to Burrow, "Ok Joe, TE is now always your second look".  His offense is designed specifically to have the majority of the balls going to WRs.  In order to prioritize the TE as a primary receiving target he'll have to utilize different formations, show a lot more run looks, basically completely different that what he brought with him from LA.

FWIW, I'd love to see the Bengals revamp the offense into a greater TE centric attack. I just have little faith in Taylor buying into and making wholesale philosophical changes to make it work.

(11-28-2023, 02:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I understand that.  What I'm saying is that Zac Taylor's play book appears to have the TE to be the 3rd or even 4th look on most passing plays.  Simply an outlet.  Or, I guess it could possibly be that Joe Burrow just likes to force feed the ball to the WRs?

If Bowers is apart of any passing concept with Chase as the primary read it automatically makes him the #2 receiver. Technically they are both the primary read.

(11-28-2023, 04:17 PM)Synric Wrote: If Bowers is apart of any passing concept with Chase as the primary read it automatically makes him the #2 receiver. Technically they are both the primary read.

The current Zac Taylor play book doesn't feature many plays where the TE is the downfield option.  TE is typically hanging out in the underneath as a safety valve.

Can you imagine an NFL Offensive Coach saying blue chip Brock Bowers Top 10 receiving talent.. How would I use him in my pass heavy offense?


Of course the Bengals offense didn't feature Uzomah Hurst Tanner freaking Hudson.

(11-28-2023, 03:34 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I think Bowers would be more valuable than Tee or actually any X receiver that we could draft or find in free agency.

He'd occupy safeties in the middle of the field and also keep backers occupied. He'd also make it easier for Burrow because Burrow wouldn't have to look all the way to the other side of the field to find his #2 target.

He'd also be a great safety outlet for Burrow because, yes, our line should be improved with firing Pollack and drafting or signing free agents, but it's doubtful that they'll suddenly be elite and teams are investing in the pass rush more than ever because it's a passing league.

I would be all for drafting a lineman early if this were a strong class for linemen (tackles), but it's not, meaning that we'd be passing on a game-changer for us and drafting a guy that might not make much of a difference.

We'll be picking in the top ten, and we'll want a player that will make an impact, and no lineman in this draft could possibly make anywhere near as big of a difference as Bowers would.

Am I the only one on the Bowers train?

I agree, but there's a couple things that stick out:

1.  I wouldn't be shocked if he's gone well before we pick.
2.  I wouldn't call this year's OT group weak by any means.  In fact I think it's one of the better ones we've seen in a little while.
3.  While #2 may be true (or false), the reality is that we need interior guys.

I think some of the stuff we've seen lately with the TE postiojnn may actually lend them some desire to take one that can really impact the offense.  I don't think it's off the table early like it was in the past.

(11-28-2023, 04:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There it is, again.  The TE is just an afterthought in the Zac Taylor offense.  He's not going to keep his existing playbook and just dictate to Burrow, "Ok Joe, TE is now always your second look".  His offense is designed specifically to have the majority of the balls going to WRs.  In order to prioritize the TE as a primary receiving target he'll have to utilize different formations, show a lot more run looks, basically completely different that what he brought with him from LA.

FWIW, I'd love to see the Bengals revamp the offense into a greater TE centric attack.  I just have little faith in Taylor buying into and making wholesale philosophical changes to make it work.

Like I said, I think Zac would work in a tight end like Bowers and get him the ball and make him the #2 or even the #1 read.

Send Bowers on a post or up the seam and just let them decide if the safety is going to double him or Chase. 

Zac is not Marvin and he will adapt to play to the team's strengths (I realize that Marvin wasn't the offensive coordinator, or even the DC, but the HC is supposed to play to the team's strengths, which he didn't/couldn't do).

(11-28-2023, 04:56 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I agree, but there's a couple things that stick out:

1.  I wouldn't be shocked if he's gone well before we pick.
2.  I wouldn't call this year's OT group weak by any means.  In fact I think it's one of the better ones we've seen in a little while.
3.  While #2 may be true (or false), the reality is that we need interior guys.

I think some of the stuff we've seen lately with the TE postiojnn may actually lend them some desire to take one that can really impact the offense.  I don't think it's off the table early like it was in the past.

The tackle group might be better than I'm giving them credit for (I wouldn't mind Joe Alt) but, like you said, we need interior guys more, which those guys likely won't come off the board until the late second round.

We've had such bad luck with drafting linemen early that it feels like it could be a wasted pick when we could have a player like Bowers that could change our entire offense.

I think Bowers would also help the line by helping to neutralize the pass rush.

Ideally, I'd love to tag-and-trade Higgins and get another high pick. At the deadline, I think the Colts and Panthers were trying to trade for him.

I think a tight end like Bowers would be super-valuable in this passing league. 

(11-28-2023, 04:52 PM)Synric Wrote: Can you imagine an NFL Offensive Coach saying blue chip Brock Bowers Top 10 receiving talent.. How would I use him in my pass heavy offense?


Of course the Bengals offense didn't feature Uzomah Hurst Tanner freaking Hudson.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Zac's not going to ignore a talent like Bowers in the passing game just because he hasn't utilized the tight end too much in the past.

(11-28-2023, 04:52 PM)Synric Wrote: Can you imagine an NFL Offensive Coach saying blue chip Brock Bowers Top 10 receiving talent.. How would I use him in my pass heavy offense?


Of course the Bengals offense didn't feature Uzomah Hurst Tanner freaking Hudson.

What's funny is that this offense has actually gotten a couple of bench warmers at TE some pretty nice contracts.  Pretty sure Zac can manage to figure out how to use Bowers.  

(11-28-2023, 04:52 PM)Synric Wrote: Can you imagine an NFL Offensive Coach saying blue chip Brock Bowers Top 10 receiving talent.. How would I use him in my pass heavy offense?


Of course the Bengals offense didn't feature Uzomah Hurst Tanner freaking Hudson.

We’re seeing that with pitta currently. Not pass heavy offense but not utilizing him regardless.

(12-01-2023, 04:44 AM)Jpoore Wrote: We’re seeing that with pitta currently. Not pass heavy offense but not utilizing him regardless.

Kyle Pitts was a receiver that could line up at any receiving position. He proved that his rookie year when he played Slot, F, and X. They went heavy run scheme put him predominantly at H and F. He is playing out of scheme fit in a run block heavy scheme that asks him to chip release more than just come off the line.


Bowers isn't like Kyle Pitts. Pitts was all athleticism and receiving g talent that might develop into a blocking TE. Bowers is an elite blocking TE that just also happens to be an elite middle of the field receiver. Pitts had solid college receiving numbers and unicorn athleticism. Bowers isn't as a dominant athlete but he has dominated on the field at rhe highest level of college football. Bowers is closer to TJ Hockenson who was picked 8th. (But if you want a prospect comparison instead of giving Kelce like every other person I'll go Sam LaPorta.)

He is one of 3 blue chip prospects in this class. Marvin Harrison jr Joe Alt and Brock Bowers.

(12-01-2023, 07:13 AM)Synric Wrote: Kyle Pitts was a receiver that could line up at any receiving position. He proved that his rookie year when he played Slot, F, and X. They went heavy run scheme put him predominantly at H and F. He is playing out of scheme fit in a run block heavy scheme that asks him to chip release more than just come off the line.


Bowers isn't like Kyle Pitts. Pitts was all athleticism and receiving g talent that might develop into a blocking TE. Bowers is an elite blocking TE that just also happens to be an elite middle of the field receiver. Pitts had solid college receiving numbers and unicorn athleticism. Bowers isn't as a dominant athlete but he has dominated on the field at rhe highest level of college football. Bowers is closer to TJ Hockenson who was picked 8th. (But if you want a prospect comparison instead of giving Kelce like every other person I'll go Sam LaPorta.)

He is one of 3 blue chip prospects in this class. Marvin Harrison jr Joe Alt and Brock Bowers.

I’m not that big a bowers fan…. I just don’t think te will ever be featured. He’s a great receiver no doubt, but does he provide immediate impact? I don’t think so. Not like someone like say newton.
Also calling him an elite book king te is a little far. Good? Sure. Elite? No. He’s got a career low 70s run blocking grade.

(12-01-2023, 12:42 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I’m not that big a bowers fan…. I just don’t think te will ever be featured. He’s a great receiver no doubt, but does he provide immediate impact? I don’t think so. Not like someone like say newton.
Also calling him an elite book king te is a little far. Good? Sure. Elite? No. He’s got a career low 70s run blocking grade.

If you're looking for immediate impact, Newton probably won't provide it in year 1.  DTs generally take some time to hit their stride.

Bowers is definitely elite and would have an immediate impact on this team.  Teams would have to account for him down the seam and underneath.  He provides something this team has never had.