(12-12-2023, 10:44 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Which is all fine and dandy except: they did

We ran the ball (RB) carries 28 X vs. Jacksonville and 29 X vs. Colts. I'm not going thru the whole season but there were many games this season the RB's didn't even reach 15 carries.

We were under center A LOT more, running more play action and just on and on. I'm not saying they rewrote the entire playbook. But to say there's not a different cadence to play calling, not a different scheme and so on just isn't true. 

In the Pittsburgh game they basically stuck with the Burrow offense, it didn't work. So they realized they had to change to fit Browning. And they've done a good job.

I can tell you this and I know it to be fact. Not speculation nor reading it on the internet. They look at efficiency. With Joe they often times were not confident in the run game but more confident in him in the short passing game and Chase. They knew a lot would go for short yardage to Chase but positive yards and the threat of him breaking it. Just with Joe’s accuracy versus the OL run blocking. What changed is they had no choice but go to the run game with Jake. And they’ve delivered

(12-12-2023, 10:13 AM)Sled21 Wrote: It happened. The fact Higgins messed it up does not negate the fact McCarron dropped him a dime. Argue about anything....

Points, or no score happened..

(12-11-2023, 02:22 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont understand people claiming the offense hasnt changed either.  When you change from playing out of the shotgun 99% of the time to under center and  when you change from a predominate pass attack to a more balanced run vs pass approach, you are changing the way the offense is being operated.

yep, thats the whole key to why sacks are limited, running game is looking better, more points and our 2nd string QB looking maybe better then our starter etc.
I hope Joe can adapt to under center part of the time.

Joe has to see the success the same basic O is having with the balanced attack. Zac said they have 200 or so plays to choose from at any time and for whatever reason Jake is making it work. Apparently he doesn't feel the need to change at the LOS and runs what choices Zac gives him. Joe has to see this O working with the same plays he is given and that he doesn't need to be the kingpin on offense himself. If everyone else sees it, Joe, Zac and Brian have to be seeing the same thing. Burrow just needs to change his play style a little and it will make him even more of a threat than he already is when he does sling the ball around.

The same offense the last two games sure looks better moving the sticks running and passing. Two changes, Browning and more Brown with speed and not so much SG pass plays. The O line seems to be playing looser and faster and moving guys around now that they know the D isn't just stampeding to the QB.

(12-11-2023, 01:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Burrow went down and Browning came in, and the team has put up over 30 points in each of the last two weeks. The running game is now seemingly working, although neither Jax nor Indy are particularly good against the run. Some people are saying they changed the scheme (they didn't). Browning is definitely not better, or even in the same category, with Burrow. So, what is it?

Notice when Browning went out with this thumb cramp, what did McCarron do? He came in and threw a touchdown pass to Higgins.

The simple fact of the matter is really just that Zac and Duke have put together a really good football team from the top of the roster to the bottom. Vets are out there hustling and not mailing it in, rookies are playing their asses off and shining. The team supports each other and no personality clashes, no divas, no drama. Heck, DJ Turner was wearing neon green cleats that supported Mike Thomas' charity during the "My cleats, my cause" game. This is just a really good football team that is really well coached. They are going to be good for a long time with as young as they are.

Again, except for the fact the Jags are the 4th best defense vs. the run in the NFL.

(12-11-2023, 02:06 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yeah, we didn't change the scheme at all.... we didn't just run 30+ times the last two games to open up the passing game. We didn't just play under center way more to help the OL. We didn't change anything.

(12-11-2023, 02:22 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont understand people claiming the offense hasnt changed either.  When you change from playing out of the shotgun 99% of the time to under center and  when you change from a predominate pass attack to a more balanced run vs pass approach, you are changing the way the offense is being operated.

Exactly

I'm with you, I don't get what the goal is of claiming the offense hasn't changed?? When it's as obvious as the nose on your face - IT'S DIFFERENT

Spin it if you want for whatever unknown reasons?? But we haven't been calling the same plays with the same game plan we would have with Joe Burrow. 

(12-12-2023, 12:19 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Again, except for the fact the Jags are the 4th best defense vs. the run in the NFL.

True, was going to say top 5 vs the run as that was what I heard. We ran on a very good run stopping team and followed that 
up with 0 sacks against the #2 sacking team in the NFL. Great job OL, TE's and RB's.

(12-12-2023, 12:25 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly

I'm with you, I don't get what the goal is of claiming the offense hasn't changed?? When it's as obvious as the nose on your face - IT'S DIFFERENT

Spin it if you want for whatever unknown reasons?? But we haven't been calling the same plays with the same game plan we would have with Joe Burrow. 

It is different for sure, I just think they are saying it is the same playbook and that Joe prefers Shotgun more than Jake.

The OL playing better allowed for us to run the ball more along with Jake playing under Center a lot.

(12-12-2023, 09:18 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Ummmm... did you watch the game?
McCarron hit Tee in the end zone for a TD. The score was nullified by a penalty, but that doesn't negate the fact it happened. They just didn't get the points.

I watched the game... via a really crappy stream on my phone, which cut out for minutes at a time.
So yea, I missed the TD nullified by penalty.

Still doesn't change the official stat line.

(12-13-2023, 12:38 PM)Tomkat Wrote: I watched the game... via a really crappy stream on my phone, which cut out for minutes at a time.
So yea, I missed the TD nullified by penalty.

Still doesn't change the official stat line.

This isn't about the official stat line, it is about the 3rd string QB coming in  cold and dropping a dime to Higgins for a touchdown. The fact there was a penalty that called it back does not take that from McCarron. You guys are ridiculous.

(12-13-2023, 12:42 PM)Sled21 Wrote: This isn't about the official stat line, it is about the 3rd string QB coming in  cold and dropping a dime to Higgins for a touchdown. The fact there was a penalty that called it back does not take that from McCarron. You guys are ridiculous.

A 'dime' that was so telegraphed that Higgins had to push off on the defender to avoid it being contested, or possibly intercepted?

(12-13-2023, 12:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: A 'dime' that was so telegraphed that Higgins had to push off on the defender to avoid it being contested, or possibly intercepted?

Disagree with this take go back and watch it.  

I don't believe the pass was in any danger of getting intercepted nor do I believe Higgins had to push off.  Think he's been called for OPI quite a few times in his career. 

(12-12-2023, 12:19 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Again, except for the fact the Jags are the 4th best defense vs. the run in the NFL.

What are you basing this off? I the only thing I've seen has them in the middle of the pack. Doesn't really matter just curious.

(12-13-2023, 12:42 PM)Sled21 Wrote: This isn't about the official stat line, it is about the 3rd string QB coming in  cold and dropping a dime to Higgins for a touchdown. The fact there was a penalty that called it back does not take that from McCarron. You guys are ridiculous.

Not to get involved in this and it was good to see McCarron come in and yes give a catchable TD pass. But I don't know that we should call it a "Dime". But solid throw.

(12-13-2023, 01:50 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Not to get involved in this and it was good to see McCarron come in and yes give a catchable TD pass. But I don't know that we should call it a "Dime". But solid throw.

Yep. That's the way I saw it. Still good to see coming in cold.

(12-12-2023, 12:25 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly

I'm with you, I don't get what the goal is of claiming the offense hasn't changed?? When it's as obvious as the nose on your face - IT'S DIFFERENT

Spin it if you want for whatever unknown reasons?? But we haven't been calling the same plays with the same game plan we would have with Joe Burrow. 

Absolutely full stop that they nestled down in the basement of the offices at Paycor and hatched an offense that was different. What they did do is want to use parts they’ve got away from because Joe didn’t like them. Make no mistake they’ve adapted the offense to Joe. As far as things that are different they went to man blocking vs zone blocking. Mixon does better when he knows where he’s going. The interior line is better at man blocking and it shows. They’ve dropped the reliance on the short passing game with Joe because his accuracy made it more efficient when the run game couldn’t do squat. Jake likes the TE and they’ve used more TE plays as Joe likes to push it to his wideouts. They are using the shotgun less because Jake is comfortable turning his back on the defense Joe hates it. So yes they are doing more of that. And the NFL is slowly adapting to the offense under Jake. Everybody is over thinking all this. The team is playing much much better on both sides of the ball. Had Joe had no sacks and only 3 pressures he’d lit the Colts up too. The Colts aren’t very good . Had they run that screen with Chase Brown with Joe they’d scored. They’ve run that screen a thousand times.

They’ve run the Chase TD pass a thousand times. The 2 TD’s by Joe Mixon are in every playbook from 8th grade football. They’ve sat down with Jake and asked him what he wanted. After Pitt they went to more protection so he wouldn’t have to worry about calling the protections. That made a huge difference. Troy Aikman said it a 100 times on the Jags telecast. I’m sure in their sit down they told him that.

The All 22 made it clear they are running the offense differently. They are under center a lot more, runs are not only more inside they are going to the left more than before - and of course there are more of them. Any given play may be one that was already in the playbook but the tendencies have changed radically.

I hope Joe is watching and learning and saying... Huh, I'll be damn.

(12-14-2023, 11:57 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: I hope Joe is watching and learning and saying... Huh, I'll be damn.

Particularly given that the Bengals gave up zero sacks for the first time since game 3 of the 2021 season. 

(12-14-2023, 11:50 AM)Joelist Wrote: The All 22 made it clear they are running the offense differently. They are under center a lot more, runs are not only more inside they are going to the left more than before - and of course there are more of them. Any given play may be one that was already in the playbook but the tendencies have changed radically.

They’ve run left from day one when Brown was added. I promise you that’s incorrect. Yes they are under center more JOE HATES TO TURN HIS BACK ON THE DEFENSE . So that’s why they don’t do it much. But that’s not some huge indictment. But everybody thinks some light bulb in Brian & Zac’s head came on. The team is playing much better as they have the last 2 years later in the season. Zero sacks and 3 pressures? It doesn’t take rocket science to figure out how Ryan Finley does with that?

Then Burrow needs to learn to play QB with his back to the D at times. If Burrow is actually checking out of most of the same plays Zac is sending him that Jake IS running and Jake is marching down the field then our #1 QB needs to learn from our #2 QB and adjust his style of play. The O linemen aren't helping Jake up off his back like they were Burrow. I know, it's only 2 games but with the Browning led O this team looks sharp. If JB can't run and manage the O without running empty sets and not under center then he isn't the elite QB he is claimed to be.