(01-01-2016, 09:48 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: https://twitter.com/geoffmoshernfl/status/683055220071387136

Would be tough to lose both coordinators again, but at least we would have Vance to step up on defense.

Yes I agree Vance Joseph would be promoted immediately if that happened.

(01-01-2016, 09:48 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: https://twitter.com/geoffmoshernfl/status/683055220071387136

Would be tough to lose both coordinators again, but at least we would have Vance to step up on defense.

I don't really see his name anywhere and that tweet even says "not being mentioned". If you're Jeff Lurie, after the Chip Kelly fiasco, are you hiring someone that basically no one even knows?

Meh, I've not been too impressed with Paulie G and his play calling. I feel like the success of our defense has more to do with talent and experience than him.

(01-02-2016, 12:13 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Meh, I've not been too impressed with Paulie G and his play calling. I feel like the success of our defense has more to do with talent and experience than him.

I think it has to do with the fact that he inherited Zimmer's system and players.

Good for Pauly G. if it happens, here's to Vance potentially being promoted to DC!!!

As long as the Bengals do well, their coordinators are going to be leaving for bigger and better things. It's the cost of being a successful team. I'm not going to be upset if we lose Guenther or Jackson. Guenther lucked in to a very good situation and Hue is really wearing me out with his cuteness on offense. I'm not saying either will be easy to replace or that their replacements will be better, just simply saying that both can be replaced. Losing Zimmer hurt, losing Gruden was a blessing.

I wouldn't be devastated like when Zimmer left . He is no zimmber. I would be interested in seeing what Vance Joseph could do .

(01-02-2016, 01:09 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I'm not going to be upset if we lose Guenther or Jackson.

I will. both sides of the ball have played well under these guys. There was a drop off from Zimmer to Guenther, but not a huge one. There was an uptick from Gruden to Jackson. The biggest uptick being the play of Dalton. But we don't know if thats attributed to Jackson, maturity, or both. The biggest downside to continually losing coordinators besides the eventual drop in talent due to attrition, is the loss of continuity.

(01-02-2016, 02:04 PM)Beaker Wrote: I will. both sides of the ball have played well under these guys. There was a drop off from Zimmer to Guenther, but not a huge one. There was an uptick from Gruden to Jackson. The biggest uptick being the play of Dalton. But we don't know if thats attributed to Jackson, maturity, or both. The biggest downside to continually losing coordinators besides the eventual drop in talent due to attrition, is the loss of continuity.

You can't underestimate the impact learning a new playbook has on teams.

I've heard numerous times from ex-NFL players about how year one in a new system is trying to learn the actual verbage of the playbook and not until year sometime in year 2 can the players translate the verbage into what they've known in the past.

In other words, someone can't hear the play call and immediately know what it is like second nature until somewhere in the second season.  But you need all 53 players to be able to do this, so it really takes all of 2 years for the whole team to be ready to roll on the same page.

Guenther has a really nice resume for a second year coordinator. Wouldn't be surprised if someone hired him.

(01-02-2016, 12:13 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Meh, I've not been too impressed with Paulie G and his play calling. I feel like the success of our defense has more to do with talent and experience than him.

I think some people just don't like Paulie because he's not Zimmer. Dunlap, Nelson and Pacman are having career years. Maybe even Peko.

He really can't succeed in the eyes of some. If the D fails, it's his fault. If they succeed, it all thanks to the talent.

Not saying this is you, but when a defense plays this well, I tend to give some credit to the coach.

1st in points allowed
11th in yards allowed
6th in passer rating allowed
7th in rush yards allowed
3rd in INTs
4th in sacks

I know some people look at last year when Atkins wasn't himself, MJ wasn't here, Burfict barely played, etc. But was it really fair to judge Paulie on that? It was a transition year, his first as a DC, and he was missing the 2 most important pieces of the defense. Even in that season, the D wasn't bad really. Now it's fantastic. So I have no problem giving him some credit. Especially with so many guys having career years.

(01-02-2016, 12:14 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I think it has to do with the fact that he inherited Zimmer's system and players.

Exactly.  If you want to measure his coaching abilities, then one must decide on the impact of players who have joined after the zimmer departure. Add that to the play calling and schemes as well.

(01-02-2016, 03:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think some people just don't like Paulie because he's not Zimmer. Dunlap, Nelson and Pacman are having career years. Maybe even Peko.

He really can't succeed in the eyes of some. If the D fails, it's his fault. If they succeed, it all thanks to the talent.

Not saying this is you, but when a defense plays this well, I tend to give some credit to the coach.

1st in points allowed
11th in yards allowed
6th in passer rating allowed
7th in rush yards allowed
3rd in INTs
4th in sacks

I know some people look at last year when Atkins wasn't himself, MJ wasn't here, Burfict barely played, etc. But was it really fair to judge Paulie on that? It was a transition year, his first as a DC, and he was missing the 2 most important pieces of the defense. Even in that season, the D wasn't bad really. Now it's fantastic. So I have no problem giving him some credit. Especially with so many guys having career years.

Oh I'll give him credit. The defense is playing lights out this year and some of that is definitely due to him. My biggest issue with him is play calling. During the first Ravens game he called the same play (or very similar variation) on about 50% of our defensive snaps, I'll have to go back and watch it to confirm, but I couldn't believe it was happening as I watched it. If he stays, great! If he goes, I'll be interested to see how Vance does. 

FTR, Paul Guenther will get zero consideration for any open NFL coaching job this year.

(01-02-2016, 03:24 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Oh I'll give him credit. The defense is playing lights out this year and some of that is definitely due to him. My biggest issue with him is play calling. During the first Ravens game he called the same play (or very similar variation) on about 50% of our defensive snaps, I'll have to go back and watch it to confirm, but I couldn't believe it was happening as I watched it. If he stays, great! If he goes, I'll be interested to see how Vance does. 

Gotcha. I guess I'm less critical of play calling when whatever he's calling seems to be working more often than not. I agree that we have a good option in Vance if Guenther takes a job elsewhere. I'm a little more worried about Hue's replacement because there really aren't any good options in house. 

(01-02-2016, 02:12 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: What an awful destination to be a HC for. Imagine that sales pitch.

"Hey Guenther, here's this team that Kelly has traded and cut ALL of the most talented players off of. At QB you have Sam Bradford as a FA, or you can go with Mark Sanchez. Sadly, we didn't suck quite hard enough for a high draft pick, so good luck trying to get a franchise QB or true blue chip prospect at #12. You also don't own a 2nd round pick this year, so #12 is your only one until #76...... oh, and if you don't win instantly despite all of this? The City of Brotherly Love will tear you apart and/or riot. So when can you start?"

LOL, Phili is more like the City of Brotherly Loathing.

(01-02-2016, 03:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think some people just don't like Paulie because he's not Zimmer. Dunlap, Nelson and Pacman are having career years. Maybe even Peko.

He really can't succeed in the eyes of some. If the D fails, it's his fault. If they succeed, it all thanks to the talent.

Not saying this is you, but when a defense plays this well, I tend to give some credit to the coach.

1st in points allowed
11th in yards allowed
6th in passer rating allowed
7th in rush yards allowed
3rd in INTs
4th in sacks

I know some people look at last year when Atkins wasn't himself, MJ wasn't here, Burfict barely played, etc. But was it really fair to judge Paulie on that? It was a transition year, his first as a DC, and he was missing the 2 most important pieces of the defense. Even in that season, the D wasn't bad really. Now it's fantastic. So I have no problem giving him some credit. Especially with so many guys having career years.

Yeah  Shake.

Why not?  That's what was measuring stick for Zimmer.  You know... the guy with massive amounts of experience.

You play with the players you got.  If they are talented, than so be it.

Now if they sucked with talented players and ranked low...  then yeah criticize away.

For the record I didn't like some playcalling Zimmer did either.  He wasn't perfect for Christ's sake.

We had our "beastlike" D line who couldn't lay a finger on a couple of QBs...  yet we still only rushed 4.

Short memories some have around these parts.

(01-02-2016, 03:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think some people just don't like Paulie because he's not Zimmer. Dunlap, Nelson and Pacman are having career years. Maybe even Peko.

He really can't succeed in the eyes of some. If the D fails, it's his fault. If they succeed, it all thanks to the talent.

Not saying this is you, but when a defense plays this well, I tend to give some credit to the coach.

1st in points allowed
11th in yards allowed
6th in passer rating allowed
7th in rush yards allowed
3rd in INTs
4th in sacks

I know some people look at last year when Atkins wasn't himself, MJ wasn't here, Burfict barely played, etc. But was it really fair to judge Paulie on that? It was a transition year, his first as a DC, and he was missing the 2 most important pieces of the defense. Even in that season, the D wasn't bad really. Now it's fantastic. So I have no problem giving him some credit. Especially with so many guys having career years.

Let me start this by saying I'm not a Paulie G or Zimmer guy, I'm a play good defense guy. And honestly in the end this defense has been good with both. 

My problem with this years defense is yards allowed. Yes 11th is above average but I want to see it be better. Being first in points allowed is all fine and good but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that stat isn't helped along by penalties and miscues by opposing offenses. I have seen far too many sustained drives this season, especially in big situations. Top, elite defenses get teams off the field and make quick work doing it.  This not only helps total yards stats but also gives your offense more chances to score. 

In the end I'm pretty happy with how this defense is playing, but with the talent we have I would like to see that total yards rank closer to the top 5 in the league. 
But maybe this post is meant for another thread altogether, because it's splitting HAIRS

(01-02-2016, 11:58 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't really see his name anywhere and that tweet even says "not being mentioned". If you're Jeff Lurie, after the Chip Kelly fiasco, are you hiring someone that basically no one even knows?

That's what he did when he hired Andy Reid

(01-02-2016, 03:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think some people just don't like Paulie because he's not Zimmer. Dunlap, Nelson and Pacman are having career years. Maybe even Peko.

He really can't succeed in the eyes of some. If the D fails, it's his fault. If they succeed, it all thanks to the talent.

Not saying this is you, but when a defense plays this well, I tend to give some credit to the coach.

1st in points allowed
11th in yards allowed
6th in passer rating allowed
7th in rush yards allowed
3rd in INTs
4th in sacks

I know some people look at last year when Atkins wasn't himself, MJ wasn't here, Burfict barely played, etc. But was it really fair to judge Paulie on that? It was a transition year, his first as a DC, and he was missing the 2 most important pieces of the defense. Even in that season, the D wasn't bad really. Now it's fantastic. So I have no problem giving him some credit. Especially with so many guys having career years.

The reasons for the continued success for the most part has been the key pieces on defense:
1) A healthy Geno Aktins' value to the overall defense can't be overstated.
2) Adam Jones is playing CB well this year. Amazing. But the secondary in general has been pretty consistent over the recent years.
3) Carlos Dunlap is finally playing to the level his natural ability allows him to play.
4) George Iloka needs to be re-signed.
5) Vontaze Burfict is a "stallion" at LB. I will take the good with the bad from him every time.

I would argue everyone else is either too raw, too old or just a "guy".

Michael Johnson, Domata Peko, Reggie Nelson are all "guys" who only pad stats as "mop up duty". It would be a mistake to sign those guys long term.

The rest of the defense, I am willing to give the Bengals the benefit of the doubt.

The point is due to the talent, Mike Zimmer and Paulie G were going to have good to great defenses. There is just too much talent and leadership in the right locations on the defense.

But I totally give Zimmer and Paulie credit for not coaching the talent down. There is such a thing as "negative coaching" see Chip Kelly 2015...