You’re gonna need a better defensive end rotation to help the pass rush

And the nose tackle situation

(12-24-2023, 06:07 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Firing Lou is not an option for this franchise.

Agreed, though I think he’d be gone at most other franchises.


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(12-24-2023, 07:51 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: You’re gonna need a better defensive end rotation to help the pass rush

And the nose tackle situation

I know the pass rushing numbers look bad but its mostly been because they havent been able to stop the run. The teams that run heavy packages and commit to the run have tested the Bengals DL depth this year and it was mostly ugly. Once the Bengals are forced to commit more to the box to stop the run it opens up the 1 on 1 play action especially all the middle of the field TE stuff we seen this year. The Cardinals game is a perfect example bad offense but because they ran a ton of 3 TE heavy packages they just chipped at the Bengals DL depth the entire game and had plenty of 1 on 1 play action opportunities because of it. 

(12-24-2023, 04:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lou Anarumo Bengals Defenses...

2019: 29th overall / 25th scoring
2020: 26th overall / 22nd scoring
2021: 18th overall / 17th scoring
2022: 16th overall / 6th scoring
2023: 31st overall / 21st scoring

He absolutely had some amazing second half adjustments to shut down the Chiefs in some big games and that got him some real hype, but by and large this year is actually a LOT closer to what has been the norm for him. Last year's defense not being below-average is actually the outlier, and they have poured an absolutely huge amount of resources into the defense while he's been here.

Keep in mind he's 57, has been coaching for 34 years, and the Bengals are the first time he's been a non-interim DC since 1994 with the US Merchant Marine Academy (a Div III school). He might have simply peaked as a DB Coach and everyone else with hiring powers has recognized it.

I agree, with exception of 2022, they are not even an average defense. When was the last time a team won a Super Bowl with those defensive numbers. We draft players, being in FA, but nothing changes.

I agree on the pressure needed, but on 3rd and long we often rush 3 and on 3rd and very long we sometimes rush 2.
Other than Mike Hilton and maybe Dax Hill I don't trust any of our blitzers to lay a hand on the QB. It's to the point that I cringe when we blitz because I expect someone to be wide open in the flat or the seam. And I don't even think that the Bengals can't scheme up a blitz. It seems like we value pressures more than sacks and pass coverage more than passes defensed and we draft players to match.

(12-24-2023, 03:43 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: DT has to be the biggest need. Jer'Zhan Newton might be there right around where we pick, too.

I don't know much about Newton, what player is he comparable?

(12-24-2023, 03:42 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Sometimes making repairs merely requires turning a wrench.  Other times it requires a wrecking ball.

I suggest the latter.

"How do you feel about the execution of the defense?"


"I'm in favor of it."

(12-25-2023, 02:35 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: I don't know much about Newton, what player is he comparable?

Geno Atkins!

It might be time to have "that talk" with Mike Hilton about moving to Safety.

Don't become blitz happy but blitz a bit more, especially against backups and rookies. And by blitz, I mean send more than 4. Dropping your DE and sending a LB is not a blitz.

Maybe make a trade before the trade deadline. The Ravens improved a great defense with the addition of Roquan Smith.

I have no idea how to fix this quickly other than adding talent. They've been pumping early picks into this defense for two straight drafts. This has come with a modicum of success, but something is lacking. I feel that they need to focus on the middle of the defense rather than the periphery. A strong up the middle defense, ie DT, MLB and safety seems to trickle to other parts of the unit.

This is all very non-expert opinion, but something I've always thought. Just look at last year. You had Reader, Wilson and the best safety tandem in the league up the middle. Hard to do better than that. They proceeded to lose their best corner in Awuzie, trot out Eli Apple and a green rookie in CTB, and have incredible success in the second half. Pass rush basically comes from one guy consistently in Trey, yet they get by with it. Hubbard and Murphy as well as Hill and briefly Ossai had their moments, but none are consistent threats to rack up sacks. Not yet for Murphy anyway.

Despite the previous paragraph, the defense still carried this team through some of the best regular season and postseason runs in it's history. All with really just one elite player in Hendrickson on the periphery,

They need to shore up D Tackle. Like right away, IDC if it's draft or FA. Reader has solidified this place in Bengal history in my mind, but re-signing him violates "the process". So did re-signing Bates or bell. I'm a process guy at this point, but maybe they need not be so rigid about it. This is especially true if no clear replacement is in place.

We've seen the consequences of the drop-off in safety play, and to some extent linebacker, but I don't think we've seen the full impact of the DTs falling off yet. We have one game without DJ and it was an absolute abortion. Oddly, they've weathered his absence well in past seasons, but not recently.

As for Lou, you kind of get into a nose-despite-face scenario. He himself foretold the impact of the losses of Bates and Bell. With Lou in house, Duke can help retool in a familiar system. If Lou leaves, how long until the defense acquires the personnel that a new DC needs to run another system? How to recent high picks fit under a new guy? There would be a lot at stake in that kind of overhaul, and I'm not sure it's worth the risk just yet.

(12-24-2023, 07:53 PM)bjf123 Wrote: Agreed, though I think he’d be gone at most other franchises.


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There's 31 other teams in the NFL that would love to have him. Only here is he blasted because the defense is young. 

What's the FA pool looking like this offseason? Any splashes to make?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/defense/table/passing/sort/netTotalYards/dir/asc

Yep. The defense is bad. If it weren't for Washington...

To me, much of the problem is the line, where it all starts.

What happened? Why the regression?
‘22 rush yards per play 5th ‘23 rush yards per play 29th
We had all 4 DL returning and linebackers and nickel?
Opponent yards per play 16th in ‘22 and 32nd in ‘23.

The offense hasn’t helped them. Personally a better run game has to be the top priority next year. They’d better figure it out

(12-24-2023, 03:31 PM)J24 Wrote: So how do hypothesis Duke, Lou, and Zac will fix this defense? Or perhaps you think we should fire Lou?

Starting 3T , starting NT , and Nickle LB have to be addressed in free agency or via trade.  Additionally I think we should look to add a true FS and move Dax to Nickleback/Joker. At least  on 3rd downs!

I'm going to strongly disagree on Starting 3T needing addressed this offseason.  By all accounts, BJ Hill is having a very good year at 3T.  He has 2 INT, 5 PDs, 1 FR, 4 Sacks, 44 tackles, and 18 QB hits with at least 2 more games to play this year.  It would be so very expensive to add an experienced vet with a stat line better than that one.  Hill is under contract through next season, after which he'll turn 30.  I know that the Bengals don't typically extend contracts to players aged 30 and above, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them extend his current deal by a year or two this offseason.

Starting NT absolutely needs to be addressed, I would guess that they both sign a competent veteran, as well as invest a 2-4 round draft selection on a rookie to develop.

Not sure about the rest of what you are proposing, as both LBs were signed to nice deals last offseason and the Safety position has already been addressed and is in the process of developing a young duo.

The new Browns defense is being credited to the Myles Garrett and their new DC Jim Schwartz but the reality is they almost completely rebuilt their DL in the off-season through free agency not just the starters but their depth too.

The Browns brought in Za'Darius Smith, Dalvin Tomlinson, Ogbo Okoronkwo, Shelby Harris, and Maurice Hurst. Added to Myles Garrett, Jordan Elliot, and Alex Wright.


I would like to see the Bengals do something similar this off-season with the IDL.

(12-26-2023, 12:11 PM)Sled21 Wrote: There's 31 other teams in the NFL that would love to have him. Only here is he blasted because the defense is young. 

They’ve had their chance. Outside of raw talent making plays, and 2 good halftime adjustments vs KC lous defenses are mediocre at best. There are several reasons why he didn’t get a HC job.

(12-26-2023, 12:11 PM)Sled21 Wrote: There's 31 other teams in the NFL that would love to have him. Only here is he blasted because the defense is young. 

Are you saying that Lou is hands down the best DC in the NFL? Because he's had a below average defense in 4/5 years. So the idea that 31 other teams would get rid of their DC to get him is a purely orange-tinted-glasses point of view.

I think there's a variety of things at play.

Lou's defense has always been more focused on generating turnovers than limiting yards. The offense has struggled a lot with injuries at QB, and that's allowed teams to play it safe. How many yards after contact do you see this team give up when the first guy in is going for the ball instead of making the tackle?

The wholesale youth movement has hurt as the youngsters experience growing pains. On top of that, Awuzie has had a down year as he recovers from injury and Scott was not what they hoped for. On the bright side, CTB had a lot of struggles last year and emerged as a potential cornerstone type player this year, and the other young guys have had their moments. I do wish Lou would've simplified the scheme a bit for the newcomers, though.

DL depth continues to be an issue. Myles Murphy is looking to be alleviating some of the issues at DE, but the DT rotation continues to be weak. The starting lineup has it's issues,as well. Hendrickson is a premier pass rusher, but offers little against the run. Reader was a solid run stuffer that couldn't generate a pass rush. Hill and Hubbard are solid two way players, but not great.

I do think Lou needs to adapt scheme to the players he has. He was well publicized for saying things would be ugly without Bates and Bell. If he foresaw the issues, why not make changes to minimize those issues? Same with the upcoming Reader contract situation.