(01-09-2024, 01:36 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This is also a good point.  The three best players on the Cincinnati offensive line — Karras, Cappa, and Brown — all arrived via free agency NOT via the draft.

Yes sir. Jonah was the only drafted player with any kind of decent consistency, and it wasn't that great. Volson did improve quite a bit the last few weeks though 

(01-09-2024, 01:36 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This is also a good point.  The three best players on the Cincinnati offensive line — Karras, Cappa, and Brown — all arrived via free agency NOT via the draft.

and have regressed under his training camp gadgets tutelage. 

(01-09-2024, 01:15 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Frank Pollock coached basically three different personnel groups with similar results.  It’s not them.  It’s him.

^This times 1000


There are certain things we love about this team and others that drive us up the wall, and this organization not holding coaches accountable are F'in ridiculous.


what did the Jags do the next day after missing the playoffs? Can their DC. 


We need to just find a good OL coach, anything will be an upgrade from what we've seen with what he's produced with the OL and running game...anything..

We have one of the highest paid offensive lines in the NFL. We have taken guys from Mahomes and Brady who helped them win championships. There is no reason the offensive line shouldnt be doing a better job. Pollack need to go.

Why would any reasonable person expect the offensive line to be better next year when everyone is coming back with the exception of Jonah. Frank couldnt get it done the last 3 years but next year the offensive line is going to be good? Why would anyone think that?

Its 4th down and half a yard to go and we are playing Cleveland or Baltimore, does anybody have any faith this offensive line could get a half yard against Cleveland or Baltimore? There need to be changes made and it starts with replacing glass eater Pollack.

(01-09-2024, 04:08 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Its 4th down and half a yard to go and we are playing Cleveland or Baltimore, does anybody have any faith this offensive line could get a half yard against Cleveland or Baltimore?  

Against anyone?! Coaches don't have faith either that's why we'd likely see an end around from the pistol for a loss of 4.

(01-09-2024, 12:57 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Jim's been a respected line coach a very long time. He was a good coach in the league. As Nico noted though, his evals have been really bad for Cincinnati.

(01-09-2024, 01:15 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Frank Pollock coached basically three different personnel groups with similar results. It’s not them. It’s him.

(01-09-2024, 01:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Duke Tobin has assembled awful OL’s with 3 different OL coaches. It’s not them, it’s him…

The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

I dont know who's fault it is drafting these offensive linemen but its clear the current group of people responsible are very bad at evaluating guys and coaching them up once they are on the team. We need better offensive line scouts and a better O-line coach. Since Burrow is set to be the Bengals QB for many years with a huge contract, the Bengals organization cant keep bringing in high priced free agents. They need to be able to find cheaper guys through the draft.

(01-09-2024, 11:34 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: ATL took Chris Lindstrom 3 picks later, and he is a 2x Pro Bowler, and graded out at an elite 87.6 this season. He’s a Guard, but still. Not getting the best OL from that draft kind of hurts considering we took the first one off the board.

The team seems to be averse to drafting OL other than T in the 1st round.  They broke protocol by taking Billy Price at C, and it came back to bite them in the ass, so I'm not sure that we will see the Bengals taking the best G or C in the 1st round any time soon.

 
yay

I'm not blaming him for everything, but I have been underwhelmed with all involved with the OL for more than awhile, Pollack, Tobin, McNally, Taylor, Callahan and Brown.

I wanted the Bengals to trade the Joe Burrow pick to Carolina at 8 and then trade down again, picking up future first round picks with each trade down and then focus on OL. Not because I didn't have faith in Joe Burrow, I didn't have faith in the Bengals and I didn't want him to be Andrew Luck'd out of the league. So far, I'm neither right or wrong.

Here is the OL for Burrow's rookie season - Holdovers from 2019 at LG, C and RT
LT Jonah Williams - Fred Johnson - Hakeem Adeniji 2019 LT Andre Smith - John Jerry - Cordell Glenn each with 5 starts apiece
LG Michael Jordan - Xavier Su'a-Filo - Shaq Calhoun - Keaton Sutherland
C Trey Hopkins - Billy Price - BJ Finney
RG Alex Redmond - Quentin Spain 2019 RG John Miller 13 starts
RT Bobby Hart

Now let us look at their OL activity since Joe Burrow's knee injury.

2021
Reilly Rieff FA - I actually thought that he played great until injured, but maybe it was still from me suffering from a severe case of Bobby Hart
2nd round Carman
4th round Smith
6th round Hill

2022
Karras FA
Cappa FA
Collins FA
4th round Volson

2023
Brown FA

Only one o-lineman drafted in the last two years. I honestly think that they'll look at FA more than the draft to replace Williams at RT. FA is a crap shoot, but it's been a much more reliable crap shoot than their attempts at drafting and developing OL. Often, the Bengals like to fill almost every hole in FA before the draft to leave them with BPA. They may still go RT at 18, but it's a long time until draft day. Many players will rise and fall as the scouts and draftniks get more time to look at film on the guys that slipped through the cracks.

Who knows? Maybe D'Ante Smith or Jackson Carman will step up and claim RT. Not holding my breath on that one.

(01-09-2024, 04:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The team seems to be averse to drafting OL other than T in the 1st round.  They broke protocol by taking Billy Price at C, and it came back to bite them in the ass, so I'm not sure that we will see the Bengals taking the best G or C in the 1st round any time soon.

If the Bengals had gotten Ragnow like they wanted that would have been a great use of the 1st round draft pick.  Unfortunately I think the Bengals panicked when Detroit jumped in there and snatched Ragnow away.   Right idea to use the 1st round draft pick on the best center in the draft but once Ragnow was gone they should have used the pick on a different position instead of panicking and picking Price.

(01-09-2024, 01:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: ... Volson did improve quite a bit the last few weeks though 

Isnt this the exact same thing we heard last year?

(01-08-2024, 08:56 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: It’s enough already. He’s gotta go.

Holy Shit. My heart just skipped a beat when I read that.

(01-09-2024, 06:09 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Isnt this the exact same thing we heard last year?

Volson obviously improved this season.

(01-09-2024, 06:03 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: If the Bengals had gotten Ragnow like they wanted that would have been a great use of the 1st round draft pick.  Unfortunately I think the Bengals panicked when Detroit jumped in there and snatched Ragnow away.   Right idea to use the 1st round draft pick on the best center in the draft but once Ragnow was gone they should have used the pick on a different position instead of panicking and picking Price.

I did not see panic at all ,, they had discussed both Price and Ragnow and there was no consensus #1 center out there, Ragnow tended to be the favorite but both of them were seen as #1 mid to later picks .. Price just did not work out.. and maybe Pollack has part of the blame since he was his 1st coach

I think Dan Pitcher might get a OC job.

I'd say 15% chance Callahan gets a HC job.

(01-09-2024, 02:49 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I heard the same thing. Which goes along with what was being reported as far as Carman being Mike Brown’s guy.

Paul Alexander's guy.

(01-09-2024, 06:58 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I did not see panic at all ,, they had discussed both Price and Ragnow and there was no consensus #1 center out there, Ragnow tended to be the favorite but both of them were seen as #1 mid to later picks .. Price just did not work out.. and maybe Pollack has part of the blame since he was his 1st coach

I definitely think they panicked.  Ragnow was their guy and they made a knee jerk reaction to take the next center on the board.  They could have addressed the position later on as most had Price as a 2nd round guy.

(01-09-2024, 06:03 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: If the Bengals had gotten Ragnow like they wanted that would have been a great use of the 1st round draft pick.  Unfortunately I think the Bengals panicked when Detroit jumped in there and snatched Ragnow away.   Right idea to use the 1st round draft pick on the best center in the draft but once Ragnow was gone they should have used the pick on a different position instead of panicking and picking Price.

I don't think that it was a 'panic' as much as the team decided that they were drafting a Center, any of the top 3 would do at that slot.

(01-09-2024, 07:23 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Paul Alexander's guy.

Mike is the one that asked Alexander about him in the first place.

“I talked to Mike about it, I go right to the top,” Alexander joked. “When I talked to Mike I said ‘hey Mike, here are the 25 guys that I worked with for the draft. Who do you want to talk about?’ The first thing he said was, ‘tell me about Jackson Carman.’ I was kind of like 'wow.' I thought first they’d want to know about Penei Sewell and go down the line and all that kind of stuff and he wanted to talk about Jackson and obviously I gave a strong endorsement and I think he’s going to be terrific.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/bengals-get-mike-browns-guy-an-inside-look-at-their-pursuit-of-jackson-carman

(01-09-2024, 06:39 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Volson obviously improved this season.

He may have “improved” but look at his numbers against AFCN teams. It’s pathetic. If we can’t beat the teams in our own division, then what’s the point.

(01-09-2024, 04:47 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont know who's fault it is drafting these offensive linemen but its clear the current group of people responsible are very bad at evaluating guys and coaching them up once they are on the team.  We need better offensive line scouts and a better O-line coach.  Since Burrow is set to be the Bengals QB for many years with a huge contract, the Bengals organization cant keep bringing in high priced free agents.  They need to be able to find cheaper guys through the draft.

Absolutely agree