Folks ranking the top young WRs are overlooking the dude who was drafted in the 3rd Round of the jaMarr Chase draft

(01-20-2024, 11:23 PM)bengals67 Wrote: The Bengals need to spend their cap space on the two lines. The franchise future depends upon protecting Burrow which includes having a running game that can routinely get 4 or 5 yards and  convert 4th and one.

Our safety play was bad this year.  But The defense got torched this year mainly because the D line was often dominated by teams that run the ball and lack of pressure on opposing QB

Paying big contracts to Tee and Chase won’t address both lines getting beaten up  by all three of our division rivals.

Jordan Love is moving the ball against the best defense in nfl right now with wrs that are not first rounders or on big contracts because of his o line which gives the packers a really good running attack and giving love 3 or 4 seconds to throw .

Love threw two picks and we kicked the crap out of SF, but that misses the point. 

It isn't about lines vs weapons (we have enough cap space to do a bit of both, and we can adress both in the draft). It is about guys we can get. 

We likely have north of $50 million in functional cap space. But that does not necessarily translate into getting true inpact players. Most times, teams will not land a top target, and that cap space goes into guys who are not teue difference makers. That is why guys like Waynes get $15 mil and such. Jonah will get it this year. Teams have space and have to use it somewhere. I'd rather pay $20 for Tee than $15 for Jonah or a similar level player. 

If there is a guy who is an impact player AND wants to be here, then make it happen. Higgins had a down year, but I have no doubt about his abilities. He is a made guy in the NFL. Top 20 at his position. In his prime. 

There is not an OT worth $15 mil on the market. The IOL spots are set, and paying $15 mil at IOL is pretty pricey. There really is not a DE worth big money as a FA, maybe Young? But we have Trey & Sam signed & just drafted Murphy. A big spend at DE (or a high pick) does not make a lot of sense. Not a great DE class. 

That leaves DT/NT. There are maybe 4 or 5 guys worth big money. Chris Jones is a $30 mil guy. Madubuike likely $20. But the chances they get away are slim. Wilkins is worth $20, but I doubt the Dolphins let their defensive captain walk, even in cap hell. The others are Reader (who we know wants to be here) and maybe Leonard Williams. 

But the larger point is that one does not prevent the other. With some creative contracing, renegotiating other guys, or flat out cutting BJ Hill (or Scott/Carman), we could sign/tag Tee, sign Reader AND Wilkins, and pick an OT in Rd 1. 

Or maybe we whiff on FA DTs, pick a guy like Murphy or Jenkins or Sweat in Rd 2. And use that $$ for an impact guy elsewhere (Derrick Henry or a DB). The important thing is to get impact guys if you can. Don't spend big money on a Jonah level player. I'd much rather pay two guys $7.5 (or a $10/$5) than pay a Jonah level guy $15. 

(01-21-2024, 02:28 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I think Chase is definitely considered a Top 5 WR.  It is a shame that this has to be questioned, hopefully Zac can get this offense to be more vertical.

Hill
Jefferson
AJ Brown
Chase

These are the Top 4 in my opinion.

He absolutely could be, but I don't think he currently is. He hasn't particularly improved over his rookie year. Since Chase entered the NFL...

Tyreek Hill: 349 catches / 4,748 yards (13.6 AVG) / 29 TDs
Justin Jefferson: 304 catches / 4,499 yards (14.8 AVG) / 23 TDs
Davante Adams: 326 catches / 4,213 yards (12.9 AVG) / 33 TDs
CeeDee Lamb: 321 catches / 4,210 yards (13.1 AVG) / 27 TDs (has gotten notably better every year)
AJ Brown: 257 catches / 3,821 yards (14.9 AVG) / 23 TDs (significantly better 2 years since leaving TEN)
Stefon Diggs: 318 catches / 3,837 yards (12.1 AVG) / 29 TDs
Ja'Marr Chase: 268 catches / 3,717 yards (13.9 AVG) / 29 TDs
Mike Evans: 230 catches / 3,414 yards (14.8 AVG) / 33 TDs
Amon-Ra St. Brown: 315 catches / 3,588 yards (11.4 AVG) / 21 TDs (has gotten notably better every year)
DJ Mooore: 252 catches / 3,409 yards (13.5 AVG) / 19 TDs
Brandon Aiyuk: 209 catches / 3,183 yards (15.2 AVG) / 20 TDs (has gotten notably better every year)

Puka Nacua: We'll see if he can repeat.

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Rough rankings, but Chase ~7th with St Brown breathing down his neck. Can't help but think a really good OC/Playcaller would tap into his real potential and he'd be a top-3 guy.

(01-21-2024, 04:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He absolutely could be, but I don't think he currently is. He hasn't particularly improved over his rookie year. Since Chase entered the NFL...

Tyreek Hill: 349 catches / 4,748 yards (13.6 AVG) / 29 TDs
Justin Jefferson: 304 catches / 4,499 yards (14.8 AVG) / 23 TDs
Davante Adams: 326 catches / 4,213 yards (12.9 AVG) / 33 TDs
CeeDee Lamb: 321 catches / 4,210 yards (13.1 AVG) / 27 TDs (has gotten notably better every year)
AJ Brown: 257 catches / 3,821 yards (14.9 AVG) / 23 TDs (significantly better 2 years since leaving TEN)
Stefon Diggs: 318 catches / 3,837 yards (12.1 AVG) / 29 TDs
Ja'Marr Chase: 268 catches / 3,717 yards (13.9 AVG) / 29 TDs
Mike Evans: 230 catches / 3,414 yards (14.8 AVG) / 33 TDs
Amon-Ra St. Brown: 315 catches / 3,588 yards (11.4 AVG) / 21 TDs (has gotten notably better every year)
DJ Mooore: 252 catches / 3,409 yards (13.5 AVG) / 19 TDs
Brandon Aiyuk: 209 catches / 3,183 yards (15.2 AVG) / 20 TDs (has gotten notably better every year)

Puka Nacua: We'll see if he can repeat.

- - - - - -

Rough rankings, but Chase ~7th with St Brown breathing down his neck. Can't help but think a really good OC/Playcaller would tap into his real potential and he'd be a top-3 guy.

I agree and Im was not going by stats.  Most of us know what Chase is, this offense, be it the scheme or play calls, simply doesnt allow for Chase to really shine.  Jefferson is not a better athlete or route runner, nor is AJ Brown, but these guys are getting the ball downfield.  I understand why we throw the quick screens, but they are awful. 

I have zero doubt that Chase could put up the same numbers as all of these, with the exception of Hill, in those offenses.  I can see Chase having much higher numbers without Tee.  Too many times he is used as a decoy or not thrown to due to being double covered.  Without Tee, they will HAVE to throw it to Chase despite the coverage like the guys you listed.  And I think Chase could win most of those.

All of this is personal opinion.

(01-21-2024, 01:31 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: The mistake would be to not tag him and let him walk for nothing but a glorified 4th round pick next year IF we don’t sign any big name FA’s. You tag Tee no matter what. You either trade him or keep him for another season or work on an extension. Any of the 3 are valid choices as long as the you have a strong plan for how to move forward. The only mistake would be to NOT tag/sign him.

We can tag or extend him and still have enough to keep our important pieces PLUS sign one legit FA at either OT or dline. Then upgrade the other spot in the draft.

You don;t have to tag him, you could tag and trade but we could trade Tee before the draft for picks... that to me is the smart thing to do if they feel his price tag is too high, it allows you to address WR very early in draft and focus FA on Dline and RT

(01-21-2024, 02:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm with you, Frank.

Bengals have shown they can draft WRs pretty well, not so much OL/DT.
Use the $$ in FA to bring proven OL and DT, draft WR.

Also WR now is the easiest to replace and get bigger impact from in 2nd to 4th rounds especially with the college game moving more and more to passing and spreading it around.

At this point I think tagging Tee is all but a certainty. Burrow says he expects and wants him back and this is the Bengals go to move. I think we tag Tee while trying to continue to find weapons to soften the blow of him leaving in 2025.

(01-21-2024, 12:37 PM)impactplaya Wrote: What does Andre do better than Tee?

The team can get younger, cheaper and potentially better by taking Bryan Thomas in the 1st.  Then you have a WR1 quality guy of the same physical build as Higgins secured on a 5 year deal.  Then you can afford to buy another great NT while your 2nd round guy grows into the role.

(01-20-2024, 11:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Our big FA signing last year was Orlando Brown

Our big FA signings the year prior were Karras, Cappa, and Collins

Other recent FA big signings are Hendrickson and Reeder

We've invested in the lines

Maybe it's something else.

Let's not forget all the years of high-end draft picks on the OL in particularly, next to none of which seemed to work out. When's the last time we had a 'pretty good' OL? 

I absolutely 10000% think we'll tag Tee, and will be trying to tie him down. But I'm very much unsure as to how sensible it would be to dedicate such resource into Burrow/Chase/Tee.

Chiefs didn't pay Tyreek the huge $$$ and aren't exactly missing a beat (I know their WRs don't like catches, but they're still going to the AFCCG again). A consistent contender has to continue to evolve around their Franchise QB to make it work. We seem to not be doing that, and instead seem keen to stick with what 'has almost worked'.

(01-22-2024, 09:10 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: Let's not forget all the years of high-end draft picks on the OL in particularly, next to none of which seemed to work out. When's the last time we had a 'pretty good' OL? 

I absolutely 10000% think we'll tag Tee, and will be trying to tie him down. But I'm very much unsure as to how sensible it would be to dedicate such resource into Burrow/Chase/Tee.

Chiefs didn't pay Tyreek the huge $$$ and aren't exactly missing a beat (I know their WRs don't like catches, but they're still going to the AFCCG again). A consistent contender has to continue to evolve around their Franchise QB to make it work. We seem to not be doing that, and instead seem keen to stick with what 'has almost worked'.

Actually, the Bengals currently have a "pretty good" OL, especially when you compare it to 2019-20-21.  On the rest I agree with you completely.  The team is good at drafting high end WRs (except for guys named John Ross), they should just save the money and invest the pick on a new top WR and have him for 5 years.  

The team definitely needs to take a look at who and how OL and DL scouting for the draft is happening, because it isn't working in it's current iteration.  They'll need to take the money saved on Higgins just to replace a top NT, because after Reader all they have are a couple of one tool guys that never developed further.

(01-22-2024, 09:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, the Bengals currently have a "pretty good" OL, especially when you compare it to 2019-20-21.  On the rest I agree with you completely.  The team is good at drafting high end WRs (except for guys named John Ross), they should just save the money and invest the pick on a new top WR and have him for 5 years.  

The team definitely needs to take a look at who and how OL and DL scouting for the draft is happening, because it isn't working in it's current iteration.  They'll need to take the money saved on Higgins just to replace a top NT, because after Reader all they have are a couple of one tool guys that never developed further.

Admittedly, I don't know enough about the OL to know how much it is the quality of the players and how much it is the scheme employed. The Bengals invested heavily in bringing in some pretty good OL help. But I watched the Bills yesterday employ 6 OL for 21 of their snaps, and Detroit always double team, and sometimes triple team, Aaron Donald, frustrating him the entire game. I watched RBs effectively pick up blitzers. Whatever the Bengals are failing at -- players or scheme-- they need to get it fixed. Very few sacks the entire divisional round.

As far as Tee, I really wished the Bengals had invested in the TE-heavy draft last year. Look at the players who were so dominant in this playoffs: Kelce, Kincaid, Njoku, Kittle. If the Bengals had a top TE, the loss of Tee would be so much more palatable. 

(01-22-2024, 09:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The team can get younger, cheaper and potentially better by taking Bryan Thomas in the 1st.  Then you have a WR1 quality guy of the same physical build as Higgins secured on a 5 year deal.  Then you can afford to buy another great NT while your 2nd round guy grows into the role.

So basically the #2 WR is revolving door position if they go that route 

I am not sure I am ready to give up on Yoshi being our #2. I think he made great improvements thru the season.

(01-22-2024, 11:37 PM)impactplaya Wrote: So basically the #2 WR is revolving door position if they go that route 

Not really. 5 years is an eternity in NFL time.

(01-22-2024, 09:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, the Bengals currently have a "pretty good" OL, especially when you compare it to 2019-20-21.  On the rest I agree with you completely.  The team is good at drafting high end WRs (except for guys named John Ross), they should just save the money and invest the pick on a new top WR and have him for 5 years.  

The team definitely needs to take a look at who and how OL and DL scouting for the draft is happening, because it isn't working in it's current iteration.  They'll need to take the money saved on Higgins just to replace a top NT, because after Reader all they have are a couple of one tool guys that never developed further.

I mean, a house with its' 2nd floor ripped off will still look pretty good when compared to sleeping under a bridge! 

While it's definitely improved and not the problem it was, we've invested a TON of resources into fixing the problem... and I'm not sure anyone would really pick out our OL as a particular 'strength' of the team. I don't expect us to be the Eagles, but would anyone really give our OL a mention when talking around the league? 

(01-23-2024, 08:14 AM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: I mean, a house with its' 2nd floor ripped off will still look pretty good when compared to sleeping under a bridge! 

While it's definitely improved and not the problem it was, we've invested a TON of resources into fixing the problem... and I'm not sure anyone would really pick out our OL as a particular 'strength' of the team. I don't expect us to be the Eagles, but would anyone really give our OL a mention when talking around the league? 

Who said strength of the team?  I said pretty good compared to what we had previously, and I stand by that.  The personnel they have are just fine, it's more about how they are being managed that is holding them back.  A lot of the perceptions about the OL will go away with more practice reps in the preseason.  For a couple of years in a row, we've watched our OL come out looking like they all just met each other for the first time, and then build continuity as the season progresses.  That part has to change, they really need those reps in preseason in order to come out looking like a true unit on opening day.

Basically, the Bengals need to secure their next RT and vastly improve the quality of depth on OL, as far as personnel goes.  Any real improvement will have to come in the form of schematic changes and a difference in preseason philosophy.

(01-21-2024, 02:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm with you, Frank.

Bengals have shown they can draft WRs pretty well, not so much OL/DT.
Use the $$ in FA to bring proven OL and DT, draft WR.

If the Bengals are good at drafting WRs as suggested they don't have to do it round 1. They could get a higher percentage chance at a good player at one of the trench positions. They haven't had a 2 year starter at RT since Bobby Hart.

PS: Everyone should know that Orlando Brown has been the best FA Tackle the Bengals have brought in... La'el Collins, Riley Reiff, Bobby Hart... The Free Agent Offensive Tackle market hasn't been anymore successful than their Offensive Tackle drafts.

#Bengals WR trio vacationing together

Tyler Boyd, Tee Higgins, & Ja’Marr Chase are vacationing together in the DR, as it appears, even though TB & Tee are pending FA’s, these guys bond will never be broken.

Honestly, you love to see it.
Once a Bengal, always a Bengal. ? pic.twitter.com/iKbNmp0ccL

— Nati Sports (@Nati_Sports) January 20, 2024

Market values for Tee Higgins & Tyler Boyd entering 2024 free agency. #Titans pic.twitter.com/vmHKHgcPTv

— Tommy R. Callahan III (@yalltitanup) January 23, 2024

(01-23-2024, 09:50 AM)Synric Wrote: If the Bengals are good at drafting WRs as suggested they don't have to do it round 1. They could get a higher percentage chance at a good player at one of the trench positions. They haven't had a 2 year starter at RT since Bobby Hart.

PS: Everyone should know that Orlando Brown has been the best FA Tackle the Bengals have brought in... La'el Collins, Riley Reiff, Bobby Hart... The Free Agent Offensive Tackle market hasn't been anymore successful than their Offensive Tackle drafts.

Yeah... I can't believe those AJ Green and Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins guys panned out. They do deserve some credit for the Marvin Jones and TJ picks, but I also think our knack for drafting amazing WRs is a bit overstated.